Epsom College Murder Suicide

[PleaseStopSayingHuBbY]

I'm shocked but not surprised. This world is depressing and scary for women.

Ok I'll bite on the obvious goady post.

Absolutely no compassion here for a murdering prick.

Now off you jog.

He was either covering his tracks or it was reactive violence from her. It’s fairly common.

Bit of an exaggeration there ? Not all of them...

Yes unfortunately I am aware that abusive men try and obscure what they are doing to their wife/partner by shifting the blame on to her. I was in a very violent marriage for years and he tried to do this on a number of occasions.

What I am interested in here is why the media latch on to this type of information. It's almost as if certain parts of the media, and society more generally, cannot cope with it being 100% the fault of the abusive man.

This says it all for me

twitter.com/DrProudman/status/1622989543237361664

Yes. Apologists can fuck off.

I can’t have any compassion for this man.

It doesn’t matter what was going on in the rest of his life, he is a child killer.

On the back of this, My own mother set the house ablaze to kill all of her 10 children and my dad when we was younger as she wanted us dead. Women do this too, people just don't expect a woman to do it.

Agree with all the pp too and I’d rather not hear from NAMALT and excuses today

Couldn’t agree more. The inability to read the room is extraordinary.

And I said the same to my MIL, who thought it must be because they interrupted a burglary.

My MIL is incredibly naive.

This is a thread about a case of male violence against a woman and a girl.

Can we - as a mark of respect for the victims if nothing else - please stick to talking about that rather than the tiny number of women who harm their children.

If you want to talk about that, please start a different thread. It's unbelievably crass and insensitive to try and shoehorn it in here.

To the far side of fuck. They couldn't even give it a day.

@StPaulandTheBrokenBones You're so right. I think I left that off in my response! I meant to agree with your original post and say how annoying it is that the media don't seem to know about this red flag. To be fair, in an "attempt to be impartial" I guess they leave it in and it's up to the reader to understand it but I so agree with you as the vast bulk of the readers don't have a CLUE what a red flag this is.

And for reasons I've never fully understood, commentators don't seem to pick up on these stories - even the ones who are usually quick to discuss and debate women's issues. I don't know if it's a legal thing. But I'd love a commentator like a Janice Turner or a Jenni Russel to write about this story and talk about the red flags.

If your first or second or third response to this tragedy was NAMALT then you're part of the fucking problem.

My third response to this tragedy was indeed NAMALT. But, I'm not part of the problem (could not be less so, if you knew me and my past). So, what? You have to believe all men ARE like that, in order to not be a part of the problem? Are YOU part of the problem? Do YOU believe all men are like that?

But this is all irrelevant. It's just not the case that all men are like that. We all know this. We also all know it's complicated. I don't think this is in dispute, is it? The point is that it's mostly men who manifest something in this fatally violent way against women and children. And that it's a tiny minority of men who do so. So I maintain that an absolutist approach along the lines of "I hate all men" just gets nobody anywhere. It's futile and unhelpful and doesn't lead to solution. Patronizing though it may be, the solution lies in research and work and funding and teaching.

No surprises, new it would be the husband. Probably couldn’t cope with wife’s success or perhaps she planned to ditch him.

Poor family, RIP both 💕

I am a woman. I've been on this website for over a decade. MN is not the exclusive preserve of women sharing anger and grief, moving as a single hive-mind, lacking individual input and different thoughts and opinions on difficult subjects. That's why I've been here over a decade. This has nothing to do with me (I haven't made it so, the posters replying to my post seem to have done that) and I think the entire tenor of this thread is about men? I haven't made you privy to my entire response to these murders. I have no obligation to.

My point is a small one: I don't believe that an absolute response to this tragedy is helpful or appropriate and I prefer a constructive dialogue rather than a singular mindset.

Sadly this was always the most likely explanation. I don't think I have ever heard of a "family annihilation" perpetrated by a woman.

I would say around the same number of women kill their kids as men.

Only yesterday or the day before was a woman arrested for attempted murder from stabbing her children.

It makes me sick to my stomach how anyone could haul their child.

I don’t know why people (mostly men) have this attitude of ‘if I can’t have her then no one can’ - but if she’s dead then you can’t ever have her but at least if she was alive you could try and win her back.

His excuse if he has survived would have been that he wanted to kill the mum but couldn’t leave the daughter without a mum - which is so cowardly and sickening.

The reason I don’t believe in the death penalty is because now he has to spend the rest of his life thinking about what he did to his daughter and he’ll never get to escape that.

As was pointed out elsewhere, the report of Emma “striking” her husband was in 2016. Simple maths tells us that was 7 years ago. Her daughter was 7 so she was either pregnant or had a very young baby at the time. We know that abusive partners often escalate their behaviour when their partner is at her most vulnerable, ie pregnant. I would not be surprised if this was a case of her “fighting back” in some form.

The term “striking” is very particular. It does not imply a full blown assault or sustained attack.

I prefer a constructive dialogue rather than a singular mindset.

There’s no constructive dialogue possible in the face of such abhorrent waste of life and potential.

Quite.

Thank you, Bones.

I had an idea that there was something very shameful (if not downright illegal) that had been uncovered.

No-one asked for a hive mind. We asked for respect for the woman and child that have been murdered. We asked for respect for the facts regarding family annihilators. We asked for respect that this thread (regardless of what you'd like it to be) was about sharing anger and grief. But I see some of the NAMALTs reported my posts. We let all of the NAMALT posts stand so people can see you for what you are.