Page 17 | Epsom College Murder Suicide

PleaseStopSayingHuBbY · 2023-02-07T11:10:00+00:00

I'm shocked but not surprised. This world is depressing and scary for women.

rubyslippers · 07/02/2023 16:27

Icanbelieveithappened · 07/02/2023 16:26

Yes!

Show quote history

This a million times

MarshaBradyo · 07/02/2023 16:28

WinnieFosterReads · 07/02/2023 16:25

There's nothing complicated about it. We live in a society that has created a group of men who think they are untouchable, women are possessions and violence is an acceptable response to any slight.
Pretending it's complicated. Pretending we don't know who carries out these crimes. Pretending the police can't keep track of them. Pretending it wouldn't make the entire country safer if the police had a zero tolerance policy to domestic abuse - doesn't help anyone.
Women and girls are dying whilst people tie themselves in knots to make excuses for murderers. For murderers. If your first or second or third response to this tragedy was NAMALT then you're part of the fucking problem.

Exactly. There’s nothing complicated about this. Just excuses from some quarters for murder and overall male violence

endofthelinefinally · 07/02/2023 16:29

What I mean is that what a woman might do while psychotic is nothing like the cold blooded murder carried out by this man and should not be held up as somehow equivalent. Hope that makes sense.

verdantverdure · 07/02/2023 16:29

Backtoblack1 · 07/02/2023 16:08

Has it been confirmed that he did it?

It won't be official until all the post Norte d are carried out but it's generally pretty obvious which one killed themselves after killing their spouse and seven year old.

verdantverdure · 07/02/2023 16:30

Post Mortems!

horseyhorsey17 · 07/02/2023 16:32

WinnieFosterReads · 07/02/2023 16:25

There's nothing complicated about it. We live in a society that has created a group of men who think they are untouchable, women are possessions and violence is an acceptable response to any slight.
Pretending it's complicated. Pretending we don't know who carries out these crimes. Pretending the police can't keep track of them. Pretending it wouldn't make the entire country safer if the police had a zero tolerance policy to domestic abuse - doesn't help anyone.
Women and girls are dying whilst people tie themselves in knots to make excuses for murderers. For murderers. If your first or second or third response to this tragedy was NAMALT then you're part of the fucking problem.

This.

And it's pathetic how many people (mostly men, I reckon) are falling over themselves on here to NAMALT or say 'women murder too' or otherwise try to distract from the fact that an innocent woman and girl are dead at the hands of a violent male. At least half of the posts on here are completely oblivious to the victims - because misogyny is rampant.

Tirednest · 07/02/2023 16:33

I'm beginning to realise that making it easier for violent men to identify as women helps to fudge the statistics, so then it's not as apparent that the vast majority of crimes against women are committed by men.

horseyhorsey17 · 07/02/2023 16:33

verdantverdure · 07/02/2023 16:29

It won't be official until all the post Norte d are carried out but it's generally pretty obvious which one killed themselves after killing their spouse and seven year old.

Show quote history

It'll be the one holding the gun, for starters.

EL0ISE · 07/02/2023 16:33

What @WinnieFosterReads says. The solutions are not complicated, they are just politically unacceptable.

verdantverdure · 07/02/2023 16:33

Every woman I spoke to yesterday assumed the man had killed the woman and child because that's what usually has happened in these cases and we have all read about dozens of them a year all our lives.

StPaulandTheBrokenBones · 07/02/2023 16:33

Why is it being reported by some media sources that apparently this scumbag reported his wife to the police for "striking" him??

Why does the media always seem to imply that somehow women, who are murdered by the men in their lives, have some part to play in what has happened to them? And who exactly has released this information to the press in the first place? Who benefits from this information? It seems that the only reason this might be reported is as some form of mitigation for the murdering piece of shit. After all, it's always the fault of women.

He is the one who has murdered his wife and child. Trying to shift blame onto his wife, after she has died at his hand, is absolutely disgusting in my view.

Partyandbullshit · 07/02/2023 16:35

WinnieFosterReads · 07/02/2023 16:25

There's nothing complicated about it. We live in a society that has created a group of men who think they are untouchable, women are possessions and violence is an acceptable response to any slight.
Pretending it's complicated. Pretending we don't know who carries out these crimes. Pretending the police can't keep track of them. Pretending it wouldn't make the entire country safer if the police had a zero tolerance policy to domestic abuse - doesn't help anyone.
Women and girls are dying whilst people tie themselves in knots to make excuses for murderers. For murderers. If your first or second or third response to this tragedy was NAMALT then you're part of the fucking problem.

I don't disagree that we live in a society that has created a group of men who think they are untouchable. Be they murderers, fraudsters, rapists, abusers, whatever. There can't be many women anywhere who don't have first hand experience of this.

But it's simply not true that every single man turns to violence, that every single one sees women as possessions. It's just not. And there's nothing to be gained from claiming that it is.

There's no pretense about it being complicated. The complication is part of the problem. We do know who carries out that vast majority of murder-suicides: they're almost always men. But you and I (I'm a woman) live in societies that choose not to prioritize hunting these men down. We choose societies where we don't fund the police enough, or allocate existing police resources adequately to dealing with domestic abuse.

You're talking about humans and you're getting carried away with anger. Who can blame you, frankly. But that's not going to stop this happening. Work, understanding, research, effective application, that's what we need.

And, no I don't think every single man is like this one, and I'm nothing to do with the problem. Frankly you can fuck off with that accusation, it does nobody any good, including you.

AlwaysGinPlease · 07/02/2023 16:36

WinnieFosterReads · 07/02/2023 16:25

There's nothing complicated about it. We live in a society that has created a group of men who think they are untouchable, women are possessions and violence is an acceptable response to any slight.
Pretending it's complicated. Pretending we don't know who carries out these crimes. Pretending the police can't keep track of them. Pretending it wouldn't make the entire country safer if the police had a zero tolerance policy to domestic abuse - doesn't help anyone.
Women and girls are dying whilst people tie themselves in knots to make excuses for murderers. For murderers. If your first or second or third response to this tragedy was NAMALT then you're part of the fucking problem.

Spot on!

Tirednest · 07/02/2023 16:38

AlwaysGinPlease · 07/02/2023 16:36

Spot on!

Show quote history

Agreed. Great post

bendy75 · 07/02/2023 16:38

How terribly sad 😥
What a monster!
Rip poor souls 💔

horseyhorsey17 · 07/02/2023 16:40

StPaulandTheBrokenBones · 07/02/2023 16:33

Why is it being reported by some media sources that apparently this scumbag reported his wife to the police for "striking" him??

Why does the media always seem to imply that somehow women, who are murdered by the men in their lives, have some part to play in what has happened to them? And who exactly has released this information to the press in the first place? Who benefits from this information? It seems that the only reason this might be reported is as some form of mitigation for the murdering piece of shit. After all, it's always the fault of women.

He is the one who has murdered his wife and child. Trying to shift blame onto his wife, after she has died at his hand, is absolutely disgusting in my view.

It's common for perpetrators of DV to report their partners to the police - I read somewhere that men are statistically far more likely to report after one single incident than women, who normally report after the 15th or 16th.

Lentilweaver · 07/02/2023 16:41

Not a single person on here has said that every single man is like this George Pattison, so you can burn that straw man.
What we are expressing is our sense of powerlessness in the face of an absolute tide of VAW.

horseyhorsey17 · 07/02/2023 16:41

Partyandbullshit · 07/02/2023 16:35

I don't disagree that we live in a society that has created a group of men who think they are untouchable. Be they murderers, fraudsters, rapists, abusers, whatever. There can't be many women anywhere who don't have first hand experience of this.

But it's simply not true that every single man turns to violence, that every single one sees women as possessions. It's just not. And there's nothing to be gained from claiming that it is.

There's no pretense about it being complicated. The complication is part of the problem. We do know who carries out that vast majority of murder-suicides: they're almost always men. But you and I (I'm a woman) live in societies that choose not to prioritize hunting these men down. We choose societies where we don't fund the police enough, or allocate existing police resources adequately to dealing with domestic abuse.

You're talking about humans and you're getting carried away with anger. Who can blame you, frankly. But that's not going to stop this happening. Work, understanding, research, effective application, that's what we need.

And, no I don't think every single man is like this one, and I'm nothing to do with the problem. Frankly you can fuck off with that accusation, it does nobody any good, including you.

Show quote history

Nobody said every single man turns to violence. Why are you wilfully misreading what she wrote?

GoldenCupidon · 07/02/2023 16:41

I saw some poor lady on Twitter who's a journalist and has been writing about this, the killings of the mother and toddler in Scotland, and the policeman rapist all in the last day. It's amazing they keep out there and doing it year after year - but all they can do is write about it, they can't change it.

Tirednest · 07/02/2023 16:41

Partyandbullshit · 07/02/2023 16:35

I don't disagree that we live in a society that has created a group of men who think they are untouchable. Be they murderers, fraudsters, rapists, abusers, whatever. There can't be many women anywhere who don't have first hand experience of this.

But it's simply not true that every single man turns to violence, that every single one sees women as possessions. It's just not. And there's nothing to be gained from claiming that it is.

There's no pretense about it being complicated. The complication is part of the problem. We do know who carries out that vast majority of murder-suicides: they're almost always men. But you and I (I'm a woman) live in societies that choose not to prioritize hunting these men down. We choose societies where we don't fund the police enough, or allocate existing police resources adequately to dealing with domestic abuse.

You're talking about humans and you're getting carried away with anger. Who can blame you, frankly. But that's not going to stop this happening. Work, understanding, research, effective application, that's what we need.

And, no I don't think every single man is like this one, and I'm nothing to do with the problem. Frankly you can fuck off with that accusation, it does nobody any good, including you.

Show quote history

Noone has said every single man, but well done you for neatly steering the conversation back to ensuring men don't get their feelings hurt.

Tirednest · 07/02/2023 16:42

Work, understanding, research, effective application, that's what we need

We need less patronising bullshit, that's for sure.

TiredButDancing · 07/02/2023 16:44

StPaulandTheBrokenBones · 07/02/2023 16:33

Why is it being reported by some media sources that apparently this scumbag reported his wife to the police for "striking" him??

Why does the media always seem to imply that somehow women, who are murdered by the men in their lives, have some part to play in what has happened to them? And who exactly has released this information to the press in the first place? Who benefits from this information? It seems that the only reason this might be reported is as some form of mitigation for the murdering piece of shit. After all, it's always the fault of women.

He is the one who has murdered his wife and child. Trying to shift blame onto his wife, after she has died at his hand, is absolutely disgusting in my view.

For those of us who have spent time reading and learning about abusive relationships, that little tidbit is just a sad sad sign that most likely, the abuse of Emma, and possibly Lettie, started a long time ago. Reporting someone to the police, or threatening to do so, is a common technique used by abusers.

It's often tied up with gaslighting - so the woman might have lashed back after years of abuse, but she is quickly painted as the monster, the crazy one, the one with the hair trigger temper, "oh officer, I just said that maybe tonight wasn't the best night to go out with the girls <innocent smirk>".

It's right up there with, "You're crazy and your depression means that I'll sue for full custody and get it" in the abuser handbook. The woman worries she'll look crazy/violent/abusive/unhinged and is effectively kept in her place. "if other people knew what you were really like...." is the specific or implied threat.

evilharpy · 07/02/2023 16:45

I wish I believed in an afterlife, so I could hope he is now burning in hell. Bastard is too good a word for him.

RosaGallica · 07/02/2023 16:51

BBC is talking about murder by male as a fact.

Women conceive them as baby boys, bear them at risk to our health, grow them, nurture them, and as rewards have to put up with their constant sexualised demands, misogyny, entitlement and dismissal of our needs, and the risk of violence is always there.

MGMidget · 07/02/2023 16:52

I am so sad for them (Emma and Lettie). May they RIP. I also dread to think of what they may have been enduring behind closed doors in the lead up to this whilst 'keeping up appearances' to friends and colleagues. I doubt many people just snap suddenly and kill their family without there having been a more gradual build- up of domestic abuse.