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Epsom College Murder Suicide

1000 replies

PleaseStopSayingHuBbY · 07/02/2023 11:10

I'm shocked but not surprised. This world is depressing and scary for women.

OP posts:
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5
AuxArmesCitoyens · 07/02/2023 14:07

Fuck off with your "women do this too" schtick. It's a proportionately tiny number compared to men, almost always with a glaring MH component, and I defy you to name a single instance where a woman has killed her partner as well as her children this way.

JackGrealishsLegs · 07/02/2023 14:07

FrenchFancie · 07/02/2023 13:49

Firstly, I do feel terrible for the poor woman and child murdered. It’s a tragedy. I cannot get my head around what causes someone to do this.

it is worth pointing out though, that family murder/ suicides like this is not a uniquely male on female pattern of violence - yesterday a woman tried to stab her three kids and then herself, luckily help arrived before they all died. The woman is recovering in hospital and has been arrested (it was in Huddersfield IIRC). To make this only a ‘male on female’ violence problem isn’t accurate.

im not seeking to detract from what the husband did - it was wrong on every level and abhorrent - but I think it’s important that things are looked at accurately.

Find me one recent case in the U.K. of a woman killing her children (not just attempting) AND THEIR FATHER TOO.

I’ll wait. 🙄🙄🙄🤬🤬🤬

horseyhorsey17 · 07/02/2023 14:09

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His 'cultural background'?! Is there a 'culture' that's more prone to murder then? Do tell.

Phatgurlslym · 07/02/2023 14:09

We all knew straight away, didn't we? Carbon Monoxide poisoning my . Everyone knew.

AuxArmesCitoyens · 07/02/2023 14:09

CaveMum · 07/02/2023 14:02

@LookItsMeAgain the case of Clodagh Hawe and her boys is haunting. The fact she was only referred to as “his wife” in reporting, a mere possession not a person in her own right, makes me seethe. Her family spoke out about being pressured by the Church into allowing him to be buried alongside his victims, though thankfully he was exhumed after 250 days.

look at the recent case in Utah where the memorial pages were all about what a great insurance agent and good Christian leader the guy was, not mentioning he shot his wife, MIL and five kids dead. Unfuckingbelievable.

MissHavishamsMouldyOldCake · 07/02/2023 14:09

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The 'not all men' automatons have been activated.

Emotionalsupportviper · 07/02/2023 14:10

Highdaysandholidays1 · 07/02/2023 12:09

@HelpASisterOut999 she didn't attempt to kill her husband though. I've noticed that with females a) they usually are post-partum often with psychosis and often succeed with insanity defences b) they tend to focus on the children as either they are in psychosis or they fear for them. There are very very few women who have annihilated their whole family and their partner and their kids and themselves. Far more men do that.

This. Post-partum psychosis causes them to fear their children or fear for them.

The majority of women who kill their children do so because they think they are somehow protecting them, and they are truly mentally ill.

Ahwelltoobad · 07/02/2023 14:11

This horrific case of family annihilation is still on my mind. Very upsetting read. www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/apr/04/8

themessygarden · 07/02/2023 14:11

I think it is worth remembering that he brutally murdered his wife and child, cultural background, financial worries, resentment and jealousy are totally irrelevant. There is no justifying of what he did.

This is a very worthwhile extract from the Irish Times.

Her name was Clodagh

"It has been a week since the tragic Cavan killings. A man killed his wife and three children before taking his own life and media outlets faced the difficult task of looking for answers.

“Why did he do it?” asked one national daily, picturing the man and his three sons.

What ensued was little short of a tribute to the murderer alongside speculations into his mental state and growing calls on social media for increased mental health funding.

Quotes describing Alan Hawe as "a valuable member of the community", a "real gentleman" and "the most normal person you could ever meet" were regurgitated like mantras while Alan's brother spoke about the killer's passion for handball and how he'd "won a number of titles".

A note had been left at the crime scene, it appeared, suggesting that Alan Hawe had been in “a vulnerable state of mind” at the time of the murders, and journalists started asking just how unstable he really was."

"we were so busy trying to understand what state of mind this lovely community man must have been in to commit such a horrific crime, that it was almost as if we had already forgotten: they were a family of five.

Amid all the disbelief, the mother of the family had all but disappeared. Her name was Clodagh, the memory of her was drowning in a twisted tribute to her abusive husband. Of course that’s what he was. Committed and kind, perhaps – but someone who committed the ultimate act of domestic violence nonetheless."

ColdHandsHotHead · 07/02/2023 14:12

I wonder what the fuck that marriage was like before he did it. You won't persuade me that it was happy.

beautifulpaintings · 07/02/2023 14:12

SleepyMathematician · 07/02/2023 14:01

I teach secondary age students and it was honestly so depressing hearing my GCSE students talk about this yesterday. Their comments were all “I expect one of them killed the other one” and they were shocked and thought it was outrageous that I said “yes, almost certainly the man did the killing”. The girls especially are so conditioned to “be kind” that a) they genuinely couldn’t see or agree that it was more likely to be the man doing the murdering and that b) they’d have excused it anyway on the grounds the poor man was probably stressed and had mental health issues.

Why are we feeding our kids this bullshit? Why are we so frightened to speak the truth? This is about MALE violence. It happens depressingly, scarily, often and nothing is done. You can bet your life if it was normally women killing men we wouldn’t be making excuses for them or pretending these kinds of crimes are committed equally by both sexes. I am so angry that this keeps on happening.

You're so right. This should be approached differently in schools and young men should be taught actively to be advocates to women, and both genders should be helped far more to identify and fight back against patterns of misogyny etc when they see it. Relationship studies, whatever it should be called, should be a core part of the curriculum, a safe space for proper discussion and learning. I think a lot would improve that way.

Phatgurlslym · 07/02/2023 14:12

Sad to think about the cruel behaviour Emma and Lettie might have been subjected to in the months and years leading up to this. And it all happening behind closed doors. These crimes are usually the culmination of years of control and abuse and not usually the result of somebody suddenly snapping, a narrative that we are constantly fed.

Myfabby · 07/02/2023 14:12

MissHavishamsMouldyOldCake · 07/02/2023 14:09

The 'not all men' automatons have been activated.

limiting it to men of color. Posters like @CAJIE make me ill.RACIST TWAT

CurrentHun · 07/02/2023 14:12

MovingHouse Flowers that’s absolutely horrific. Those poor children. I can well believe that family annihilation is less rare than the media coverage would make it seem.

Cw112 · 07/02/2023 14:13

It's just so bloody predictable and depressing. As soon as I read it I said to my dh that it was going to be a murder suicide by the partner because it always is. It's like we're all just getting numb to it because it happens so often. How traumatic for those pupils as well, what message does that send to female pupils that even as a strong successful leader of a woman you're still at the mercy of small, dangerous, narcissistic men.

Tirednest · 07/02/2023 14:15

Yesthatismychildsigh · 07/02/2023 13:48

Thanks for agreeing with me @Tirednest. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. My reply to them was actually a copy of my report of the crass theorising. And I don’t know why your post was removed, it was spot on. Good that that offensive post was removed so quickly, though. Make up theories about a tv programme by all means, but the poster getting off on seemingly using this for entertainment and feeling it’s ok to share for whatever sad little reason just sickened me.

Thanks - had a few removed today but don't care. Very therapeutic standing up to some pathetic people.

Tirednest · 07/02/2023 14:17

MissHavishamsMouldyOldCake · 07/02/2023 14:09

The 'not all men' automatons have been activated.

They are sad fuckers awaits inevitable deletion

DreamingofNuneaton · 07/02/2023 14:18

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Get back in the bin.

blackbeardsballsack · 07/02/2023 14:19

This reply has been deleted

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I can't believe that you have managed to fit 'not all men' shite AND racism into one small comment.

GreenWasTheColour · 07/02/2023 14:19

Plenty of people knew this was a case of family annihilation committed by the man as soon as the story broke. No one will have genuinely entertained the thought of the woman being the murderer. We all know, we are all familiar with male violence no matter how desperately someone can grasp at straws and make false equivocation with the rare cases they dig up of female murderers, ignoring the ways in which the patterns differ. Some posters would like to obfuscate and pretend that women do this, but they know it's not true. They'd just like to stop women from joining the dots and naming the problem, because then we can tackle it and then somewhere down the line men will be held accountable. Some posters really don't want that to happen.

Youwhatnowbiggles · 07/02/2023 14:19

All this talk about male violence but the moment you suggest that giving boys/young men violent video games where the only aim is to fight, maim & kill is not wise or helping you get shouted down as an over dramatic killjoy. The societal change can start at home.

Tirednest · 07/02/2023 14:19

GreenWasTheColour · 07/02/2023 14:19

Plenty of people knew this was a case of family annihilation committed by the man as soon as the story broke. No one will have genuinely entertained the thought of the woman being the murderer. We all know, we are all familiar with male violence no matter how desperately someone can grasp at straws and make false equivocation with the rare cases they dig up of female murderers, ignoring the ways in which the patterns differ. Some posters would like to obfuscate and pretend that women do this, but they know it's not true. They'd just like to stop women from joining the dots and naming the problem, because then we can tackle it and then somewhere down the line men will be held accountable. Some posters really don't want that to happen.

Good post

Cw112 · 07/02/2023 14:20

themessygarden · 07/02/2023 14:11

I think it is worth remembering that he brutally murdered his wife and child, cultural background, financial worries, resentment and jealousy are totally irrelevant. There is no justifying of what he did.

This is a very worthwhile extract from the Irish Times.

Her name was Clodagh

"It has been a week since the tragic Cavan killings. A man killed his wife and three children before taking his own life and media outlets faced the difficult task of looking for answers.

“Why did he do it?” asked one national daily, picturing the man and his three sons.

What ensued was little short of a tribute to the murderer alongside speculations into his mental state and growing calls on social media for increased mental health funding.

Quotes describing Alan Hawe as "a valuable member of the community", a "real gentleman" and "the most normal person you could ever meet" were regurgitated like mantras while Alan's brother spoke about the killer's passion for handball and how he'd "won a number of titles".

A note had been left at the crime scene, it appeared, suggesting that Alan Hawe had been in “a vulnerable state of mind” at the time of the murders, and journalists started asking just how unstable he really was."

"we were so busy trying to understand what state of mind this lovely community man must have been in to commit such a horrific crime, that it was almost as if we had already forgotten: they were a family of five.

Amid all the disbelief, the mother of the family had all but disappeared. Her name was Clodagh, the memory of her was drowning in a twisted tribute to her abusive husband. Of course that’s what he was. Committed and kind, perhaps – but someone who committed the ultimate act of domestic violence nonetheless."

I could never get over that they were all buried together at the time when he so clearly didn't deserve that. I know the family didn't have all the info at the time but they knew he'd killed them all. I'm so tired of watching society making excuses where there are none. There's still such a lack of understanding of domestic abuse, these things don't happen out of the blue really, you need to be feeling massive levels of entitlement and narcissism to be able to think it's acceptable to kill someone else that doesn't happen randomly one day.

OMG12 · 07/02/2023 14:20

Everybody knew yesterday didn’t they? Every time we allow a comment that undermines a successful woman we’re feeding this crap, every time we excuse an act of male violence we’re feeding all male violence. Yet increasingly men are portrayed as the victims and women the unkind villains when all they are doing is trying to have a voice and stay safe.

the message needs to be made clear to women and girls, men are not more important than you, you do not have to be kind, stating reality is not bigoted. Do not allow your voice to be removed to save the ego of a man.

VioletaDelValle · 07/02/2023 14:21

Three people have lost their lives and it is sad for all 3 of them. Where is the compassion?

I'm sad for two of them.

He can rot in hell.

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