Page 4 | Another child killed by a dog

NeverTrustAPoliceman · 2023-01-31T22:11:26+00:00

Breaking news now. When is this going to stop? Rip little one.

Lockheart · 31/01/2023 23:19

Sep200024 · 31/01/2023 23:14

Animals capable of killing human beings out in public places, with no restraints or trained handlers.

How does anyone justify that?

Isn't that called nature? And a surprising number of men, if we're being honest.

Flowerfairy101 · 31/01/2023 23:20

XenoBitch · 31/01/2023 23:14

My comment is in reaction to the PP who mentioned that they see videos on social media of kids climbing over dogs, and the dogs are clearly uncomfortable.
If you have a dog, kids or not, you should know about their body language.

I do think it is helpful to know anyway. I walk my dog in the local park and have had small children scream murder just when she walks past and minding her own business. Maybe their parent should be teaching them that a dog who is just walking past with their nose to the ground is not a threat. I can appreciate that some kids are phobic though. I don't want to distress a child, but if my dog is literally doing nothing wrong, what am I meant to do?

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When my toddler screams or runs behind me when a dog approaches and I get the standard look of scorn plus 'he's very friendly' I always explain that my child actually wasn't scared of dogs before some fucking tool allowed theirs to jump all over her when she was minding her own business on her trike, and short of kicking the thing, I couldn't get it away. Unfortunately now that damage has been done, it's going to take a lot of convincing that not every dog is going to do that for my child not to react like that.

HufflepuffRavenclaw · 31/01/2023 23:20

Wasn't aware that America had an "on the lead" rule for dogs. Brilliant idea.

Near me there is a field which is all fenced in and which dog owners can hire for a period of time to let their dogs exercise safely - and obviously people don't go there because it is clearly a pet exercising place.

The majority of owners cannot control their animals though and even worse, when one does jump up on you or knock you, or growl/bark at you for no reason, it's your fault?! Never an apology from the owner. Their animal is much much more important than people or children. 🙄

NC2709 · 31/01/2023 23:21

Flowerfairy101 · 31/01/2023 23:11

Presumably a dog wandering up to you in the park would be closely followed by their dog-knowledgeable owner..oh wait a minute, no, you'd be lucky if they've even got sight of their dog.

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Absolutely @Flowerfairy101
So many of us who dislike this behaviour from dogs and their owners but have seemingly no choice but to put up with it as selfish owners don't care and won't change.

And to all the dog apologists... you are wrong and some of you are sick in trying to justify or explain in anyway that we should be somehow sympathetic about these dogs or their owners or their circumstances. Some dogs are just bad, some breeds are just bad, no you don't need a dog breed that is capable of killing a person under any circumstances and no I won't be learning any dog body language. Put your dog (whatever breed it is, I don't care) on a lead and control your animal.

Libre2 · 31/01/2023 23:21

HufflepuffRavenclaw · 31/01/2023 23:06

Improve public knowledge of dog body language;

fuck that.

I don't have a dog, I have no interest in having a dog, interacting with dogs, being around dogs.

It is the responsibility of OWNERS to keep their dogs to themselves. If they can't keep their mutts under control and away from people, that is THEIR problem not mine.

Too many owners cannot see past their own obsession with their dogs and think that we should all embrace their pets and love them as much as their owners. Constant clamouring for dogs to be allowed in shops/restaurants/other public places.

They are ANIMALS and should be treated as such. Personally I think that dog ownership in this country is completely out of control. Far too many of them, far too many poorly trained, owned by numpties. The "oh he's only playing" brigade whose dogs have zero recall and training.

I agree with this. I have a dog -we love her dearly, but I am not stupid enough to think that everyone else does. I am also not stupid enough ever to trust her 100 percent- she is an animal. She has zero recall (we have been shit with training and she’s a retired racer - she is no bother in any other aspect) and therefore she doesn’t go off lead. The amount of dogs who also have no recall and are still off lead is astounding.

dinglethedragon · 31/01/2023 23:21

Floofyduffypuddy · 31/01/2023 23:04

@Spybot .. interesting. I was wondering how they do it in the state's. ...

They could also ask for certain dogs to be muzzled
By jaw size maybe?

Google "North Carolina dog attack" - see how effective those rules are for stopping attacks and deaths. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Soothsayer1 · 31/01/2023 23:22

Sep200024 · 31/01/2023 23:14

Animals capable of killing human beings out in public places, with no restraints or trained handlers.

How does anyone justify that?

Agree, it's utterly unconscionable.

LastOfTheChristmasWine · 31/01/2023 23:22

@Wimbz20 People on here going on about "signals when a dogs not happy"
Are you kidding me ??? Babies, toddlers and small children and still grasping things like potty training, feeding themselves and playing with play dough and you want them to read dog signals too?? Get real seriously.

No, that's the adult's job. It's also why the standard advice is never to leave dogs and children together unsupervised.

As they get older, they can be taught, just as you teach them not to run into the road or throw things at other children.

@kitsuneghost @lastofthechristmaswine
You can't say everyone who comes into contact with dogs needs educated. It would be fair enough if coming into contact with dogs was a choice. We have no choice in whether we are subjected to dogs or not. There is no dog free outdoor space anywhere in my town.

When I say comes into contact with - I mean in a meaningful way. You are spectacularly unlikely to be killed by a dog that you don't know in a public place in the UK; indeed you'd be several times more likely to be fatally struck by lightning. In this context, I mean someone who owns a dog or regularly visits a home where they have a dog.

I would really love it however if parents could keep their children under control. My dog is the sort that minds his own business and has no interest in humans he doesn't know. On several occasions, I've had to tell children to stop chasing him as has moved away from them. On at least one occasion, the child didn't stop and the parents didn't intervene. Every child should be taught to ask the owner before stroking a dog, just as they are taught to look before crossing the road.

Nobody should have a pet capable of killing a child

Do you want to tell the Pony Club that the gymkhana is going to have to be cancelled because Dobbin is going to be shot, or shall I?

foxlover47 · 31/01/2023 23:22

Maybe I'm
A bad owner but I do not have my dogs off their leads ever in a public place , I love my
Dogs nobody else has too ! , but I also know that they have their own brain and I can't know 100% that they aren't ever going to flip or take a dislike to something.
It's my job if I am walking them in the public domain to make sure that the public are safe from them , my responsibility is to keep them
On their lead unless I've paid for the rut regular run in a private enclosed dog park.
I get told
I'm
Cruel for only walking on a lead , Id rather be cruel and keep them
Under control and safe.
I won't have them run up to people, I don't even let kids come
Over and stroke them , when they're in my home and my daughter has friends over , they are put away behind a stair gate either with me or in their beds .. out of the way
Mine are terrier x types , dog reactive and good guard dogs ... it's my job to make sure they don't hurt anyone and if I can't do that then I shouldn't have them

Sep200024 · 31/01/2023 23:22

Lockheart · 31/01/2023 23:19

Isn't that called nature? And a surprising number of men, if we're being honest.

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🤣🤣

HufflepuffRavenclaw · 31/01/2023 23:24

I'd say you were a good and considerate dog owner, @foxlover47 . It's such a pity that you're in the minority.

Soothsayer1 · 31/01/2023 23:24

And to all the dog apologists... you are wrong and some of you are sick in trying to justify or explain in anyway that we should be somehow sympathetic about these dogs or their owners or their circumstances. Some dogs are just bad, some breeds are just bad, no you don't need a dog breed that is capable of killing a person under any circumstances and no I won't be learning any dog body language. Put your dog (whatever breed it is, I don't care) on a lead and control your animal.

Very well said, I wish I could be as coherant, thank you🙏

PurpleWisteria1 · 31/01/2023 23:24

XenoBitch · 31/01/2023 23:14

My comment is in reaction to the PP who mentioned that they see videos on social media of kids climbing over dogs, and the dogs are clearly uncomfortable.
If you have a dog, kids or not, you should know about their body language.

I do think it is helpful to know anyway. I walk my dog in the local park and have had small children scream murder just when she walks past and minding her own business. Maybe their parent should be teaching them that a dog who is just walking past with their nose to the ground is not a threat. I can appreciate that some kids are phobic though. I don't want to distress a child, but if my dog is literally doing nothing wrong, what am I meant to do?

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I would absolutely love to see you next to a dog who’s as tall as you pass you.
Perhaps someone who has a polar bear on a lead walking right by you.
Because that’s how big they appear to a small child. Face to face with teeth and eyes.
I’ll tell you what you do. You keep the dog on a lead and stand back or approach with caution.
YOU learn the body language of CHILDREN before your dog gets anywhere near.

Emmamoo89 · 31/01/2023 23:25

LastOfTheChristmasWine · 31/01/2023 23:08

There's a huge number of factors that go into creating a dog that has severe behavioural difficulties. Often multiple factors interact. Some of these factors include

breeding - for instance, if you breed from dogs that are nervous or have other issues then you are likely to get puppies that are about the same
breed traits - you can't be surprised when a collie wants to herd, a german shepherd wants to guard, or a greyhound chases small furry things.
in utero experiences - a mum who is stressed during pregnancy can have an impact on the foetuses
experiences during the first 8 weeks of life, when they're with the breeder. There are far too many puppy farms, and they can be very adept at covering up where the dogs were actually raised.
experiences between 8-16 weeks (up to 16 weeks is the crucial socialisation period) when they're with the first owners
bad experiences at any age - for instance many years ago a child walked up to a family members dog and kicked it, completely unprovoked. The dog developed an understandable dislike of small children after that.
neurological issues - for instance a brain tumour can cause a previously soft dog to become dangerous
medical factors - particularly issues causing pain, which can make dogs distinctly grumpy and less able to deal with other things going on.

There are owners who do everything right and still end up with a dog that just wasn't quite wired right. Rather like how we all know someone who is an excellent parent but one of their children happened to grow up to have significant mental illness.

Sometimes the person holding the lead wasn't the one who had them as a puppy; lots of people take on rescue dogs with behaviour issues and put their own blood, sweat and tears into improving that dog's behaviour. They can be doing a fantastic job, even if the dog will never be perfect. I've got one of these dogs - and it has certainly made me become a better dog owner because I had to learn, hard and fast.

I'm always a lot quicker to judge someone who is employing crap training methods (yanking on a lead is a pet hate of mine) over someone who is working to manage their dog's behaviour issues using science-based positive reinforcement training methods.

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Fair enough but a lot of the time it is down to the owner.

PurpleWisteria1 · 31/01/2023 23:27

LastOfTheChristmasWine · 31/01/2023 23:22

@Wimbz20 People on here going on about "signals when a dogs not happy"
Are you kidding me ??? Babies, toddlers and small children and still grasping things like potty training, feeding themselves and playing with play dough and you want them to read dog signals too?? Get real seriously.

No, that's the adult's job. It's also why the standard advice is never to leave dogs and children together unsupervised.

As they get older, they can be taught, just as you teach them not to run into the road or throw things at other children.

@kitsuneghost @lastofthechristmaswine
You can't say everyone who comes into contact with dogs needs educated. It would be fair enough if coming into contact with dogs was a choice. We have no choice in whether we are subjected to dogs or not. There is no dog free outdoor space anywhere in my town.

When I say comes into contact with - I mean in a meaningful way. You are spectacularly unlikely to be killed by a dog that you don't know in a public place in the UK; indeed you'd be several times more likely to be fatally struck by lightning. In this context, I mean someone who owns a dog or regularly visits a home where they have a dog.

I would really love it however if parents could keep their children under control. My dog is the sort that minds his own business and has no interest in humans he doesn't know. On several occasions, I've had to tell children to stop chasing him as has moved away from them. On at least one occasion, the child didn't stop and the parents didn't intervene. Every child should be taught to ask the owner before stroking a dog, just as they are taught to look before crossing the road.

Nobody should have a pet capable of killing a child

Do you want to tell the Pony Club that the gymkhana is going to have to be cancelled because Dobbin is going to be shot, or shall I?

The next time I see dobin trotting up to me in the park I will remember that. Oh wait.

Ivyleaguestoner · 31/01/2023 23:27

Do we think if the owner was liable and went to prison or had to pay a large fine if their dog severely injured another person or domestic animal it would make any difference?
Or would the owners just assume it would never happen to them?

IDontCareMatthew · 31/01/2023 23:28

So much danger for small children to navigate. Sad as it is, they are at most danger from their own families ( the humans in it) and that goes for their own parents.

Trinity65 · 31/01/2023 23:28

Baconand · 31/01/2023 22:55

So sad. It’s always irresponsible people that cause this, not dogs.
It’s so often on a sink estate, rare you hear of similar in a nice leafy suburb (I know MK well). Avoidable tragedies.

Wow!!
How fucking arrogant and Classist

foxlover47 · 31/01/2023 23:28

@HufflepuffRavenclaw thank you I really appreciate that
That poor little
Child

IDontCareMatthew · 31/01/2023 23:29

Same here @Libre2

FloydPepper · 31/01/2023 23:29

ReamsOfCheese · 31/01/2023 23:15

The dog madness is so deep in this country. Next we'll be having "dog drills" like the gun drills in America. Because someone will decide these attacks are so unavoidable and we all need to change our behaviour to suit the young aggressive men people who have these dangerous animals.
Humans and dogs have coexisted in a mutually beneficial way for over 10,000 years. We need to just stop allowing the breeds that are genetic cesspits and go back to when humans and dogs enhanced each other's lives.

There are parallels with the gun lobby. It’s my right to have one, it’s bad owners that are the problem, you can’t take away something I enjoy.

we reacted to gun killings by banning them. People losing something they enjoyed was acceptable collateral damage for the greater good.

the problem we have is that dog ownership is as wide, and invokes similar passions, as gun ownership in the states.

XenoBitch · 31/01/2023 23:30

I would really love it however if parents could keep their children under control. My dog is the sort that minds his own business and has no interest in humans he doesn't know. On several occasions, I've had to tell children to stop chasing him as has moved away from them. On at least one occasion, the child didn't stop and the parents didn't intervene. Every child should be taught to ask the owner before stroking a dog, just as they are taught to look before crossing the road

This.
When I take my dog out, sometimes a small child approaches and asks to stroke her. It is always a yes, as I know my dog well and she loves the fuss.
There have been times when a child has come up anyway, and their parent has told them off for approaching a dog.
Sadly, my dog has been attacked by kids more than other dogs. She got bit by a collie years ago for a little row over ball... she has had a kid go to kick her in the face, and another go to whack her over the head with a toy.

People with toy breeds seem to get ambushed by kids and their parents demanding to see the dog like they owe some sort of favour. I know people with chihuahuas, and parents actually get offended for them not letting their brats fuss their dogs. Anyone with a chi will know they are not the most sociable dog breed.

NC2709 · 31/01/2023 23:30

XenoBitch · 31/01/2023 23:14

My comment is in reaction to the PP who mentioned that they see videos on social media of kids climbing over dogs, and the dogs are clearly uncomfortable.
If you have a dog, kids or not, you should know about their body language.

I do think it is helpful to know anyway. I walk my dog in the local park and have had small children scream murder just when she walks past and minding her own business. Maybe their parent should be teaching them that a dog who is just walking past with their nose to the ground is not a threat. I can appreciate that some kids are phobic though. I don't want to distress a child, but if my dog is literally doing nothing wrong, what am I meant to do?

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Thank you for clarifying.

And I don't think you should do anything in that scenario as your dog sounds like they aren't doing anything wrong at all.. I would sort of be interested to know if your dog is on or off lead when that sort of thing happens? I have taught my children that a dog on a lead walking past is nothing to be concerned about, though they are sometimes still nervous if it is close.
But I have also taught them that dogs off leads should be treated with caution and as wide a berth given as possible and they certainly find off lead dogs more scary and are more likely to panic and cry or be very visibly frightened. I would hope an off lead dog had great recall and could be stood by its owner as we passed.. but the majority of owners we pass by do not care at all and that is very sad in my opinion when they can see a visibly distressed small child and could do something to remedy the situation but choose not to.
Screaming is obviously not helpful though but nothing you personally can do about that, I would hope the parents would be trying to stop that though.

Sep200024 · 31/01/2023 23:33

FloydPepper · 31/01/2023 23:29

There are parallels with the gun lobby. It’s my right to have one, it’s bad owners that are the problem, you can’t take away something I enjoy.

we reacted to gun killings by banning them. People losing something they enjoyed was acceptable collateral damage for the greater good.

the problem we have is that dog ownership is as wide, and invokes similar passions, as gun ownership in the states.

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This is absolutely true, and so sad there are so many people blinded in this way.

foxlover47 · 31/01/2023 23:35

How
Can anyone
Ever justify their loose
Dog running
Over to
Anyone , child
Or
Not and jumping up
Etc etc ? Why is it so hard for owners to walk their dogs on a lead ? My dogs are happy
To be out being walked it's not cruel
To
Walk a dog on a lead , why should people out and about have to be scared of loose dogs .. and believe me I adore dogs I really
Do but the whole world doesn't have to want your loose dog in their space