Another child killed by a dog

[NeverTrustAPoliceman]

Breaking news now. When is this going to stop?

Rip little one.

This is it exactly, why would you have a pet that is capable of killing a child? My cocker poodle mix could go demented and hurl herself at the nearest toddler but I could get her off pretty fucking quickly.....a pit bull or worse these despicable American bullies, not a chance. No one in the world is strong enough to intervene when these things go off. When I was a child I watched my best friends pit bull decapitate a Rottweiler by pulling it through a slatted gate. Her mother battered that dog with a golf club and it didn't flinch. Why the hell would you want something like that in your home?

@Spybot .. interesting. I was wondering how they do it in the state's. ...

They could also ask for certain dogs to be muzzled
By jaw size maybe?

That poor, poor little girl. I can't stop thinking about her.

Improve public knowledge of dog body language;

fuck that.

I don't have a dog, I have no interest in having a dog, interacting with dogs, being around dogs.

It is the responsibility of OWNERS to keep their dogs to themselves. If they can't keep their mutts under control and away from people, that is THEIR problem not mine.

Too many owners cannot see past their own obsession with their dogs and think that we should all embrace their pets and love them as much as their owners. Constant clamouring for dogs to be allowed in shops/restaurants/other public places.

They are ANIMALS and should be treated as such. Personally I think that dog ownership in this country is completely out of control. Far too many of them, far too many poorly trained, owned by numpties. The "oh he's only playing" brigade whose dogs have zero recall and training.

Nobody should have a pet capable of killing a child
agree
what can we do about this utter menace?

@GreyTS because it's something in humans to be able to control or dominate such a beast.

Gives them attention. .
It's non sensical. huge jaw's etc...I'd be amazed if this child has been killed by a Yorkie tea cup

There's a huge number of factors that go into creating a dog that has severe behavioural difficulties. Often multiple factors interact. Some of these factors include

• breeding - for instance, if you breed from dogs that are nervous or have other issues then you are likely to get puppies that are about the same
• breed traits - you can't be surprised when a collie wants to herd, a german shepherd wants to guard, or a greyhound chases small furry things.
• in utero experiences - a mum who is stressed during pregnancy can have an impact on the foetuses
• experiences during the first 8 weeks of life, when they're with the breeder. There are far too many puppy farms, and they can be very adept at covering up where the dogs were actually raised.
• experiences between 8-16 weeks (up to 16 weeks is the crucial socialisation period) when they're with the first owners
• bad experiences at any age - for instance many years ago a child walked up to a family members dog and kicked it, completely unprovoked. The dog developed an understandable dislike of small children after that.
• neurological issues - for instance a brain tumour can cause a previously soft dog to become dangerous
• medical factors - particularly issues causing pain, which can make dogs distinctly grumpy and less able to deal with other things going on.

There are owners who do everything right and still end up with a dog that just wasn't quite wired right. Rather like how we all know someone who is an excellent parent but one of their children happened to grow up to have significant mental illness.

Sometimes the person holding the lead wasn't the one who had them as a puppy; lots of people take on rescue dogs with behaviour issues and put their own blood, sweat and tears into improving that dog's behaviour. They can be doing a fantastic job, even if the dog will never be perfect. I've got one of these dogs - and it has certainly made me become a better dog owner because I had to learn, hard and fast.

I'm always a lot quicker to judge someone who is employing crap training methods (yanking on a lead is a pet hate of mine) over someone who is working to manage their dog's behaviour issues using science-based positive reinforcement training methods.

Or a child.
It’s the same every time though.
Dogs are animals and always always have the risk of being unpredictable or display possibly sudden unwanted behaviours. Yes before you say it, so have humans - The difference is these dogs are often far stronger and 100x more lethal than any human against weaker opponents such as children.
In no way can you compare dogs to humans or kids so just please don’t even go there.

When I was a child I watched my best friends pit bull decapitate a Rottweiler by pulling it through a slatted gate. Her mother battered that dog with a golf club and it didn't flinch. Why the hell would you want something like that in your home?
I have no words
why do we tolerate this MENACE in the uk ?😟

@HufflepuffRavenclaw .. when I had a cute little bichon we were walking and i saw this large dog crouched a way from us. The owner cried out " be careful,he may go for your dog...he's a traumatized rescue" 🤣🤣🤣.

Can you clarify if you mean for example...

I am walking in the park with my child and a dog comes up to us. It is not an interaction I want. Should I be expected to know dog body language?

Or do you mean if I choose to own a dog and let them around my child that I should learn dog body language?

Well, lets change this... I don't have a dog, I have no interest in having a dog, interacting with dogs, being around dogs to...

"I don't have a car, I have no interest in having a car, interacting with cars and being around cars"... yet we still teach kids the Green Cross Code, and how to see cars as a danger that they need to be careful around.

I'm always a lot quicker to judge someone who is employing crap training methods (yanking on a lead is a pet hate of mine) over someone who is working to manage their dog's behaviour issues using science-based positive reinforcement training methods
blah
blah
blah
JUST BAN THE FUCKING THINGS

Presumably a dog wandering up to you in the park would be closely followed by their dog-knowledgeable owner..oh wait a minute, no, you'd be lucky if they've even got sight of their dog.

A ban on dogs is never going to happen. It doesn't matter how much you scream into your keyboard.

Maybe it's time for a cull of dogs above a certain weight (unless a working dog).

My comment is in reaction to the PP who mentioned that they see videos on social media of kids climbing over dogs, and the dogs are clearly uncomfortable.
If you have a dog, kids or not, you should know about their body language.

I do think it is helpful to know anyway. I walk my dog in the local park and have had small children scream murder just when she walks past and minding her own business. Maybe their parent should be teaching them that a dog who is just walking past with their nose to the ground is not a threat. I can appreciate that some kids are phobic though. I don't want to distress a child, but if my dog is literally doing nothing wrong, what am I meant to do?

No. The comparison to cars is not valid, much as the doggie apologists would like to be. Nice bit of whataboutery though.

There would be zero need to warn children/adults about reading dog body language if owners did what they are supposed to do and controlled their fucking animals. No I don't want to be jumped up on by your slobbering mutt, even if it is "being friendly". Being jumped on is not MY fault for not doing x or y, it is YOUR fault as an owner for being shit at training.

Animals capable of killing human beings out in public places, with no restraints or trained handlers.

How does anyone justify that?

@NC2709 they mean the second, I think. Proving their responsible owner credentials of course.. But conveniently forgetting the first.

The dog madness is so deep in this country. Next we'll be having "dog drills" like the gun drills in America. Because someone will decide these attacks are so unavoidable and we all need to change our behaviour to suit the young aggressive men people who have these dangerous animals.
Humans and dogs have coexisted in a mutually beneficial way for over 10,000 years. We need to just stop allowing the breeds that are genetic cesspits and go back to when humans and dogs enhanced each other's lives.

HufflepuffRavenclaw I entirely agree with you. No dog should ever be off a very short lead in a public place. Dangerous breeds and children should never be together.

However, the dog which bit my DS in an unprovoked attack (we were just walking past on the same pavement) was a golden retriever.

Yes @HufflepuffRavenclaw Dogs are simply not children and it's annoying/dangerous when they're treated as such. They're animals.

Why should small children have to learn about dog cues? The dogs shouldn't be anywhere near them in the first place. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen toddlers knocked down by strangers' dogs in the park. Perhaps it's tempting for dog owners to see this as harmless but it reinforces the notion that dogs take precedence over young humans. I'm with the Americans - all dogs should be on leads in public because you don't know which owners are responsible and which are not.

Cars stay on the road by and large.
Thankfully I don’t remember the last time a car came close to anyone I know who was walking on the pavement.
You can avoid them by sticking to the pavements, crossing when it’s completely clear, or going to parks and places there are no cars.
Unfortunately not a day goes by where I can avoid dogs. Pavement, road, park, shops, cafe, even the bloody supermarket today. Can’t leave my front door sometimes without a dog interaction where I live.
I have absolutely no interest in learning a dogs behaviour. Just keep them away from me.
What makes me even more shocked and annoyed is people with these huge bully muscular dogs. Do you really think that if that dog really decided to go for someone / something you could stop it / hold it back with a poxy lead? No. You would be pulled and yanked along with the dog until you had to let go and then would be totally powerless to get that dog off.
How on earth can you live with the risk of that? Especially in your own home with children. It’s absolutely nuts.

I like dogs. I used to have dogs. But I don't like being pushed about/scratched/muddied/nearly knocked off my feet by dogs any more than I like being treated like that by people.

But thread after thread on Mumsnet, specially the ones where people say they don't like being approached by random dogs, get the same response. Either a whole lot of instructions about how the dogless person should learn to behave around dogs/adapt their lives to avoid going where uncontrolled dogs go, or a total denial that dogs interact/make physical contact with people who don't wish them to. Rejection that this is a common occurrence. I've seen 'Only on Mumsnet.'