Why does MN seem to hate people who have 'money'

[febbabies2023]

Genuine question

I've read a few posts where people have asked for advice etc on a topic that heavily revolves around money or property etc

Quite often on those threads, people seem to bash them or become quite nasty even though the thread was asking for advice etc

Why does Mumsnet seem to have an issue with people who are 'weathly'? And wealthy / a high earner is different for everyone right?

Someone earning 25k a year will see someone on 50k as a high earner. Someone on 60k will see someone on 100k as a high earner and so on.

I know times are tough for some people, but it seems that people forget that some of these high earners have worked their absolute butts off to get where they are? Or is that unreasonable?

Im sure you and your brother are quite intelligent aswell? Also luck you were born with your genes and not different ones. You were born with the mind to work out how you can progress your career and make money. Also luck you havent got a disability, or chronic illness. All life is luck.

@Bluecandlepink Our luck came when I rented the one-bed negative equity flat I couldn't sell in London (a boundary dispute, very costly construction issues, and the 1990 economic collapse) for less than the mortgage -- for over 10 years.

It seemed very tough at the time. However when I did sell, the market had improved again, so after paying off the (endowment) mortgage, there was enough equity to buy our current house with an affordable mortgage, even with mortgage rates at 9%, and to have some rainy day savings, which became our pension. We have been self-employed since our mid-30s, and there have been good and bad years on a roughly seven year cycle, so three since 2000. Each downturn has been a little easier than the one before -- but a lot of that is ageing/no childcare.

For most (not all) the ability to earn a very high salary is down to a mixture of things - natural talent, intellect, socioeconomic background, privilege, opportunity, luck, networking, sometimes nepotism and hard work.

People often don't like someone pointing out advantages they might have had because it seems like you're saying they didn't work hard. But both things can be true - if you're naturally intelligent, had supportive parents, went to private school and the opportunity to go to uni then those are advantages that others might not have had but you still have to work hard to get into a high paying job.

People often don't like someone pointing out advantages they might have had because it seems like you're saying they didn't work hard. But both things can be true - if you're naturally intelligent, had supportive parents, went to private school and the opportunity to go to uni then those are advantages that others might not have had but you still have to work hard to get into a high paying job.

Well said. Though there are people who want to put the financial success of others down to only those pot luck advantages and not acknowledge that hard work also plays a part. As we can see many people work very hard but with varying financial results.

@saraclara if we focus on £250k salaries then I agree that's strange to feel like you are struggling (to most people) I'd say £101k is the lower end of 6 figures.... Ie the threshold where you miss out on all government financial support and if you are a single income household with children you have maximal outgoings

I think there is a general paranoia about being rich-hunted and driven out of a discussion.

For example, a thread in which the bank-of-mum-of-dad was mentioned led to the immediate conclusion that the poster must be jealous for simply using the term to describe their area (when they were actually homeowners looking to sell).
Then, there are the pension threads where people get accused of humble bragging.

Some posters seem uncomfortable with imagining that other people live in circumstances vastly different to their own in the upwards direction but perhaps not in the other direction.

I think getting stroppy just because someone has money is weird and sort of jealous, but I just can't stand posts like "we have household income of 500k and it barely feeds us, I don't know how people manage on lower salaries". Absolutely tone deaf. No wonder people get annoyed seeing this loads of bullshit. Obviously then follows an excuse from other posters like: well, they might have high mortgage, private school fees etc. If you can afford 1m house and private schools, you're not struggling. End of.

@bbgx comments like that are really unhelpful. Just as unhelpful as the "if kfc doesn't pay enough become an equity partner accountant".

Yes there are more choices at certain salaries but peoples backgrounds have nuance. I know personally I've benefited from social mobility - grew up in council housing, single income home, free school dinners, am black .

I knew I wanted "more" and thankfully in addition to this drive I was great at core subjects so got into a top uni , did a great degree then a training contract. Now am one of those "high earners". The thing is when I wanted to buy my 1st flat (london) I had a really high mortgage because even with a great salary saving £000 for a deposit when supporting your mum and younger siblings and trying to enjoy the fruits of your labour is hard. Because of the high ltv I basically broke even on selling not the high gains friends had because better interest rates.

Now I'm married with a DD and "naice" house and even with the double salary I'm still supporting my mum and brother. On the outside people see double income etc but nobody knows the commitments I have . I say this to say - even with the income I can be worried about CoL because if my mum can't afford her gas and electric bill I'll be paying it. If my brother can't afford his ever increasing rent (despite having a professional job) I'll be picking up the shortfall.

Don't want or need your sympathy but wider empathy for varying situations wouldn't go amiss.

Ps before comments on how a high earner has time for MN in the daytime. I'm on maternity leave and responding while DD naps

I do get what you're saying @TrudyProud , and you've clearly done really well to progress in the way you have. But being able to help your family is a privilege that you have due to your earnings. I'm also fortunate to be able to help my family through the CoL crisis, and I really appreciate that I'm in a financial position to. It relieves my worry for them.

Those who are struggling are probably also anxious about elderly parents or offspring who are in the same position, and that worry for them is an additional burden on top of their own. I'm really grateful not to be in that position.

Your mother and brother are lucky to have you. But you are also in a much better position than others, simply by being able to reduce your anxiety about them by paying their bills.

@saraclara thank you.

@TrudyProud

Sure, with more money comes more commitments but it's still right that medium and high earners get less. I'm working my way up and still believe this to be true.

And a high mortgage is never the same as paying high rents. A mortgage is paying for your own purchase, paying rent you might as well throw your money in the bin.

Do have empathy for you, by the way! You clearly do have money worries re family which could be expensive if you have to cover. Wouldn't put you in the same category as 'moving to London, can we manage on £1.5k after bills'.

Lot's of people complain about 'effort vs reward', but this can work both ways.

Yesterday I input a family of four, with a single minimum wage earner, renting in London, into the benefits calculator. It spat out a post tax income of £41,880 p/a.

That's equivalent to more than £55k on PAYE.

That's more than a senior teacher earns in Central London.

Who works harder - a teacher or somebody serving coffee in Pret?

Why should a single person earning £45k be substantially worse off than a family living off a single minimum wage?

Perhaps those people receiving such large benefits top-ups need to 'read the room'? How is that not a 'kick in the teeth' to those people that work and pay tax to provide the benefits, when they quite probably end up worse off than the family with a single minimum wage - especially when you factor housing costs into the equation?

MN seems to have a strong left-wing bias with people raging about the 'evil tories' while completely oblivious to the (quite frankly obscene) levels of benefits payments that some people are receiving.

I could write an epistle on this but it actually all boils down to JEALOUSY in my opinion. I never ever start money related threads, I try my best to not engage in such threads too as often times the comments are just plain nasty for no reason.

Also, I disagree with the poster that says being successful/wealthy is mainly due to "luck".

I think 'progressives' have identified and target MN as fertile ground on which to shape and refine their arguments in robust discussions with worthy adversaries.

Some people will have more money than others whether it's by profession they earn more, whether they inherited it, whether by simply being in the right circles knowing where the money is or simply by setting up a successful business knowing there's a niche market with demand.I wouldn't say people who earn more are more hardworking than those that aren't but the fact that those people can or can't take the responsibilities that the role entails. A pilot gets paid £100k + but with all that training, it's not something I would like to do taking on 300+ peoples life as a responsibility or a neurosurgeon where I'm squeamish even watching a medical programme.

There's those who are natural grafters, street smart, go getters and won't settle for working under someone else working non-stop at the start of their business not taking any holidays any pay whilst shouldering all the burden running a business brings and then 10 years later they are in a comfortable position, well I won't be jealous of them at all. I will project my bitterness whilst being a masters degree graduate with 12+ years industry experience still at 30k to a system that low balls me and many others. From experience though, those that have been lowballed for years who have the drive and have had enough then goes into business to do much better. Me I can't earn more and I'm at the mercy of my company's annual pay rise but those who are in business with themselves have the opportunity to earn more after establishing their business. I'm still waiting for that moment where I'm about to say "fuck this shit, I'm going to be my own boss" but not sure when that's going to click for me and just because it hasn't clicked, doesn't give me the right to be bitter towards those that earn more than me that have put in their efforts in a much smarter way than me where it's rewarding for them.

I don't dislike wealthy people per se.

But I do hate people who go to extraordinary length to dodge paying their fair share of tax.

I do hate the idea that private schools benefit from charitable status.

I do hate the fact that some people prefix sentences with phrases like "I worked hard to get where I am" - tacitly implying that people on lower incomes - like nurses, care workers, delivery drivers etc don't work hard too.

So if you stand for any of those things, I will think you are a selfish and/or tactless arse. If not, grand. Live and let live...

There are people that are happy to cruise through life. They don't really put much effort in at work and take the annual pay rises. Some people study after work and get professional qualifications. When the second type of person ends up earning more than the first, they are entitled to say they worked hard to get where they are.

That doesn't mean that there aren't hard working people earning less money. It simply means they've worked hard to better their personal position.

In my opinion it is the 'cruisers' that get jealous when their former colleagues go on to earn 2x, 3x what they're still earning - and then they vote for people that promise to 'redistribute' that money. All in the name of 'fairness', naturally.

I do hate the fact that some people prefix sentences with phrases like "I worked hard to get where I am" - tacitly implying that people on lower incomes - like nurses, care workers, delivery drivers etc don't work hard too

I tend to see that the “I worked hard to get where I am” from a higher earner is usually in response to a comment that they are lucky, privileged and the inference is that they haven’t worked as hard as a nurse etc. As a pp said, having some luck, privilege doesn’t mean that high earner hasn’t also worked equally as hard.

I think with higher earners, a lot of hard work and sacrifice is put in in the early days of a career to reap the benefits later on, which isn’t the case with delivery drivers/care workers

Great post

very good points @flyingdino. I think character and personality play a big part in achieving financial success, irrespective of upbringing and intelligence levels.

I have seen threads on MN where someone post about a woman they know who lives in a one million plus house in a leafy area, has two top of the range cars, wears designer clothes . The poster will admit that this woman makes them feel insecure
Cue posters talking about how miserable this woman probably is, how her dh probably cheats on her with numerous women, how she probably has mental health issues, how everything is on credit. Always negativity
Smacks of jealousy to me

I don't think it's jealousy actually. It's the constant money mindedness and thinking that people are jealous of you that grates people.

There are a lot of braggarts and wannabes on MN and it gets annoying and repetitive. They LOVE to jump on the 6figure threads, drop that they or their DH are "high earners" and have millions in their pension, yet they despise people showing wealth in the ways that is not approved by them. Have you seen how ugly it gets on designer bag threads? Basically the line is, I have loads of money, but I choose to live in a feezing cold house, eat sandwiches in the station, buy my clothes from the supermarket, but HEY MAKE NO MISTAKE MY DH is a partner in a PE firm and earns 7 figs.

And the covetousness... posting thread after thread about how other people afford big houses and holidays (standard answer: credit cards), how to look expensive, how wealthy people look like. It's tedious to be honest.

I think your point is making an incorrect presumption, which is peddled by the media, that to be ' left wing ' means to support high benefit payments. This isn't necessarily true. I know plenty of hard working,tax paying, politically left leaning people who find benefit abuse and misspending absolutely disgraceful.

Has anyone visited the secondary education board, recently? It's almost entirely about private education and 'the best' schools' admission policies.

I'd turn tail if I was a state school parent with a question. MN very much swings towards the wealthier end of the middle classes. So I don't see it as hostile to them at all.

@DosCervezas That example isn't 'benefits abuse'. It's the amount somebody would be entitled to if they earn minimum wage, live in private rented accommodation in London and need to support a family of four.

Personally, I'm happy to help those that do work but don't earn much money. What annoys me, is those people getting more take-home money than a senior teacher and then claiming poverty and/or flinging insults at people who have more disposable cash.