Why does MN seem to hate people who have 'money'

[febbabies2023]

Genuine question

I've read a few posts where people have asked for advice etc on a topic that heavily revolves around money or property etc

Quite often on those threads, people seem to bash them or become quite nasty even though the thread was asking for advice etc

Why does Mumsnet seem to have an issue with people who are 'weathly'? And wealthy / a high earner is different for everyone right?

Someone earning 25k a year will see someone on 50k as a high earner. Someone on 60k will see someone on 100k as a high earner and so on.

I know times are tough for some people, but it seems that people forget that some of these high earners have worked their absolute butts off to get where they are? Or is that unreasonable?

@Botw1 mega bucks? You are being seriously disingenuous there. They are my brother and my sils jobs and that is how they have gone from skint skint to ok in the last few years. No they don’t make mega bucks but they are now both financially ok. Incremental increases in living standards through hard work, planning and a bit of sacrifice. There seems to be a mumsnet myth that if you are in a low paying job you can’t improve and anyone with any money is just lucky or got it from slave owning descendants 🥴. I’ve gone from barmaid at 28 to senior manager in a support service in 12 years. Worked my arse off. But in mumsnet land that’s impossible as once your on nmw you can never improve your lot.

Actually rhe majority of threads on finances folks on here are low to middle income, the wealthy, and what is wealthy is subjective, are much lower numbers. Very few people who are genuinely high earners will talk about it on here, as they are accused of boasting, or lying.

id say rhe spread is what you’d expect from a site with millions of people and reflects a fair demographic with the one exception skewing it, is that I think there are a higher proportion of Stay at home parents and part time workers. Which in many cases often leads to a lower to middle income family.

im always quite bemused when I read the threads and then see folks say oh there are more High earners in here, which is clearly not the case.

it is true if anyone is perceived to be affluent, they are often attacked, accused of lying, told they are condescending, told to read the room and to fuck off as people are struggling.

of course it’s bitterness and jealousy, but I don’t think it would be right to pretend it doesn’t happen.

@Mycatsgoldtooth

I thought we were discussing being wealthy?

Maybe I misread the op

Wealth inequality and social mobility are getting worse, not better.

So yeah, it is possible to improve your situation, but most dont

@Botw1 my point was that there is a myth that anyone who is wealthy gets there by pure luck. My brother is now thinking of setting up his own heavy plant machinery training company. Could make a lot of money. My sil is hoping to be a specialist paediatric allergy nurse. Salary could be about 45k if she works in the private sector at a higher band then she is now. Then they will be wealthy by my standards. Just luck or two people who started off in a builders yard and as a carer in an old people’s home making good choices?
I make good money now - was it luck or was it working three jobs around study, going to uni as a mature student, planning promotions and volunteering and up skilling to get those promotions. If most don’t improve their situations then they have to take a bit of responsibility for that, barring ill health physical or mental, many people have it in them to improve their lot and pretending they don’t doesn’t do anyone any favours.

I've been wondering this for a while as on most posts created regarding holidays houses or anything other than the cost of living crisis there are so many jumping into the post and being really negative or down right bitter.

It's awful.

I think generally most people are sick to death of the media and negative things that have been going on in the world.

I'm with many different types of people from all walks of life and salary thresholds every week and the majority regardless of what they earn are just damn fed up.

It's also a cold crappy time of year and it's pushing people to their limits.

It's sad but not everyone but a lot of people seem to just have a bitter undertone for everything.

Someone says they've booked a holiday and people eye roll and say at least they've got one etc but they don't know what them people have given up for that holiday.

Some people are below the breadline through misfortune and circumstances beyond their control and some people are way above it again due to circumstances out of their control I.e they were born into it and know no different.
It doesn't make either person a bad one

We all come in the same and all leave the same.

A good friend of mine came into a huge amount of money after being poor all her life. At the time I was working three jobs and juggling a house and dc and couldn't see past the next day I was so depressed and absolutely exhausted.

But I congratulated her massively and was really pleased for her that things had turned around.

I didn't once think oh lucky her or anything else other than good things for her.

@Mycatsgoldtooth

Luck and hard work.

Green eyed monster, pure and simple

I think you were. The original post we interacted with was about people earning a decent income but feeling they weren’t well off. That is highly unlikely to ever feature on a post about someone whose UC hasn’t come through or who is struggling before pay day. Not always but mostly, the title of the thread indicates the content. If I was struggling, I’d never click on a thread asking “how much do you earn” or “how much do we need to live with 2 kids in west London”. I don’t have sympathy for people who do, knowing it will upset them

I am lucky enough to have enjoyed a lifetime of good health and to possess a decent brain, and now I am 66 and have been retired for a few months, while my DH is still working as he works out the succession plan for the business he started. We have finished the accumulation stage of our lives and what we have now will have to see us out for probably/perhaps another 20 or 25 years given our parents' live spans. As it happens, our financial situation would be regarded by anyone with a young family as fortunate, and I'd agree. However, when we were of an age to have a young family (we were ancient parents) we hadn't met, and were both building careers and professional skills as singles, which we put together in our 40s. In the last 20 years, we've been careful with money, but not frugal. No new cars or designer handbags (usually secondhand cars or Vinted) but a nice house in an area that's come up we bought 25 years ago and could not afford now: no second home or stock portfolio. Lucky, yes. Sensible, definitely. Well-to-do, passably. But really wealthy, we fall well short.

@EffortlessDesmond what do you feel was luck? In your scenario you’ve mentioned good health and that can be pot luck. What else has been luck? Enjoy your retirement!

I make good money now - was it luck or was it working three jobs around study, going to uni as a mature student, planning promotions and volunteering and up skilling to get those promotions.

I did the exact same, down to the three jobs. And yes, it was hard work. It was also an immense amount of luck. Luck that I had a stable home and supportive partner. Lucky that I didn't get accidentally pregnant. When I did have a child DD's SEN were manageable. My parents valued and promoted education. I'm bright. I live somewhere with good transport links. I'm in good health. And on and on.

I'm really lucky. I know it makes you feel good about yourself to think it's all your hard work. But it's not. Ever.

@MrsTerryPratchett So all success is good luck and all misfortune is bad luck in your eyes when it comes to life?

It absolutely does not. Look at the most responded to threads. The ones that discuss things that arent in normal peoples every day lives or even an option. They get the most comments. Mumsnet is predominantly filled with those that have money.

It’s perhaps a shield across social media.A couple of friends who shared on FB posts about victims of coercive control (of which they were both victims) pointed out that if your cat goes missing for a night, you get volumes of likes and goodwill comments. But often a solitary like on a post about abusive relationship. I’m sure its not that people don’t care, but they lack headspace to take on another’s problems.

Thing is, I might open a thread that's about struggling or not meeting outgoings with income and then on reading the OP learn their income is 4x my own....... So I've opened the thread thinking it will be about someone on the same or lower income than mine and yes, I'm a bit incredulous when someone states they can't manage on money that I can only imagine.

I don't comment though, mainly because I'd get my arse handed to me for suggestions of cutting things back, moving somewhere cheaper, getting a second job, getting a better job etc - but those suggestions are always put forward on threads where the OP is earning a lot less and not considered to be in a 'good enough' job or it's assumed they're just being frivolous with what they do earn and people talk about choices and responsibility.

And that feeds into the 'deserve it' attitude, because people on a higher income, even if their choices have led them to be struggling on 4x my income, it's seen more as they deserve to make those choices because they 'work(ed) hard' and it's unfair that they can't afford their choices, where as it's seen as change it or stop whining for people on a lower income, no matter what their choices are.

People also open/read and comment on threads which much lower incomes than some to berate people too, to tell them that they made poor choices, that they should have worked harder, that they need to take responsibility - so the commenting only to berate someone works both ways really.

Envy.

I know times are tough for some people, but it seems that people forget that some of these high earners have worked their absolute butts off to get where they are? Or is that unreasonable?

This paragraph sounds super cringey to read back but maybe it’s not meant like it sounds.

People can of course, OP on whatever they like. What I do mind is when there's a thread where the OP is absolutely struggling, is being supported by others in a similar position, and someone comes along whose financial starting point is a world away, but claims the same issues.
Now THAT is not reading the room.

And good grief, the earlier poster here whose DH earned "at the lower end of six figures back then" (so anything up to £500k? And I wonder what he earns now?) but 'isn't rich' ?
I mean, that is the classic example of a post that's going to rile those who don't know how they're going to pay their energy bill.

I also love on money threads how you will get loads of people telling the OP that they are being insensitive to post about "only" having 5k disposable income a month & then another poster will come along & say "no way could I survive on that, we have 3 x the amount"' 😆

A lot of posts on this thread remind me of girls in the school playground. "Don't take any notice of Emily, she's just jealous of you"

Jealous is a horrible word. Personally I wouldn't use it for someone who's financial life is extremely perilous, and who is tipped over the edge by a diamond shoes poster who hasn't taken in the tone of a thread..

Exactly.
And people are struggling, many will die, from poverty in the UK.
Dismissing their pain, terror and despair as "jealousy" is actually a very hateful thing to do. It would be very, very hard to like someone who did that.

Link to show what is a high income.

ifs.org.uk/tools_and_resources/where_do_you_fit_in

Thanks, that's really interesting

Having money isn't just about income though.

I agree with this. I remember I few years ago being told that if I was struggling I should move to a cheaper area. The fact that I had a job that I could only do because my family helped with childcare, bad mental health that my family were a fantastic support for, and the dcs father lives here were apparently all irrelevant. I was told my job would be fine without me,I wasn't anything special (which is true but if all us lowly carers moved to cheaper areas who'd do the care work here?) Apparently poor people should just uproot themselves and their DC regardless of the practicalities. I was told i should get a second job (when? I'm a single mum, I do need to see my dc sometimes-yes other people have done it. Good for them. They probably weren't on the brink of a breakdown) I was told to retrain, go to uni. Because obviously I can afford that.

Yet when I suggested it to someone who was struggling on their 6 figure salary because of their massive mortgage that they move somewhere cheaper... apparently its not the same.

I also find it annoying when someone says they are so skint because xyz. I (or another poster) will make suggestions about how they can cut back/point out they have a far higher disposable income than us. Then get told "yes well, its more expensive here in the SE. (I'm in the SE)
Or "wait until you have teens, they cost a lot" (I do have teens) "yes well, wait until they are older teens" ( they are)

One thread I remember the OP gave me every reason under the sun why she was struggling on an income that was 5x mine. None her choice apparently. They had 2 brand new cars and needed them because of lack of public transport, nothing was walkable, went abroad multiple times per year, lived in a very expensive town where the local shop was as an artisan bakery and a waitrose etc etc. Eventually she revealed where she lived, the same town as me. The 'artisan bakery' isn't expensive and is opposite an Iceland. There is a very good bus system, and almost everywhere was walkable from there.

That thread did piss me off.

And if I'm honest, yes it's an element of jealousy. Not necessarily that others earn more than me. But that they've had the life chances to allow them to. That they didn't drop out of 6th form because they couldn't cope with the sexual abuse that was happening at home. That they didn't have a mental breakdown in their 20s and then again in their 30s making working almost impossible for some time.

And lastly I'm actually genuinely surprised that people can say "we've only got £42566 per week after bills. How on earth do we manage. We buy takeout coffee everyday, get gousto boxes and 2 takeaways per week." I mean... come on.