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Original poster

Why does MN seem to hate people who have 'money'

237 replies

febbabies2023 · 31/01/2023 18:19

Genuine question

I've read a few posts where people have asked for advice etc on a topic that heavily revolves around money or property etc

Quite often on those threads, people seem to bash them or become quite nasty even though the thread was asking for advice etc

Why does Mumsnet seem to have an issue with people who are 'weathly'? And wealthy / a high earner is different for everyone right?

Someone earning 25k a year will see someone on 50k as a high earner. Someone on 60k will see someone on 100k as a high earner and so on.

I know times are tough for some people, but it seems that people forget that some of these high earners have worked their absolute butts off to get where they are? Or is that unreasonable?

OP posts:
saraclara · 01/02/2023 00:37

safeplanet · 01/02/2023 00:32

Having money isn't just about income though.

Indeed. That doesn't allow for inheritances and other capital. But that's going to mostly affect the top end rather than the bottom end. Those on low salaries tend not to have parents who have left then significant inheritances.

On the offchance that you mean that some people with a high incomes have high expenses too, well again, it's that income that has given them the choice to get great big mortgages on nice houses etc. They're still rich though, even if not much of it is in their bank or wallet.

MrsTerryPratchett · 01/02/2023 01:21

Mycatsgoldtooth · 31/01/2023 23:24

@MrsTerryPratchett So all success is good luck and all misfortune is bad luck in your eyes when it comes to life?

Not all, but a very significant amount. And I know people who are millionaires and people who are on NMW. There is no perceptible, significant difference in how hard they all work. I think being more willing and able to take risks is probably a factor. Attitude to education and knowledge acquisition maybe. Sex and race, definitely. Class of parents 100%. But hard work or luck, I'm willing to bet luck is a bigger factor.

And I'm willing to bet there isn't on a population level.

Beezknees · 01/02/2023 06:05

Mycatsgoldtooth · 31/01/2023 22:03

@Botw1 my point was that there is a myth that anyone who is wealthy gets there by pure luck. My brother is now thinking of setting up his own heavy plant machinery training company. Could make a lot of money. My sil is hoping to be a specialist paediatric allergy nurse. Salary could be about 45k if she works in the private sector at a higher band then she is now. Then they will be wealthy by my standards. Just luck or two people who started off in a builders yard and as a carer in an old people’s home making good choices?
I make good money now - was it luck or was it working three jobs around study, going to uni as a mature student, planning promotions and volunteering and up skilling to get those promotions. If most don’t improve their situations then they have to take a bit of responsibility for that, barring ill health physical or mental, many people have it in them to improve their lot and pretending they don’t doesn’t do anyone any favours.

Well, if you have the available time to work 3 jobs and do volunteering then yes, that is pretty lucky. A single mum of young kids with no childcare support isn't going to be able to do that.

DosCervezas · 01/02/2023 06:35

No answers and I don't hate wealthy people, but I will pick you up on the line that some wealthy people have worked hard for what they have. I don't dispute this at all, but how hard people work isn't factor which determines whether people are wealthy and earn more. Nurses, care assistants, bin men who run after the truck all day ( they do this round here) shop workers etc etc don't all just sit on their backside all day. I don't resent wealth and high incomes, but I won't have it that they work any harder than millions of people giving everything to their job for minimum wage.

TrudyProud · 01/02/2023 07:40

@Spiderplantation @saraclara that link is too simplistic. CT isn't the reason people struggle at the end of the month. Mortgage payments, childcare expenses (both have limited scope for change in the short to medium term). They need to be considered in conversation about how wealthy someone is

saraclara · 01/02/2023 08:08

TrudyProud · 01/02/2023 07:40

@Spiderplantation @saraclara that link is too simplistic. CT isn't the reason people struggle at the end of the month. Mortgage payments, childcare expenses (both have limited scope for change in the short to medium term). They need to be considered in conversation about how wealthy someone is

Council tax is included, I assume, because it's the only thing that every single household has to pay. Everything else is within the household's own decisions. But I agree that it muddies the water.

Financial lives and decisions are of course, complex. But when you have people coming in here with incomes of (say) £250k (which would fit the pp's "lower end of six figures") and claiming they're not rich, there's a need for a chart like that.

Overgrowngrasslady · 01/02/2023 08:17

but I won't have it that they work any harder than millions of people giving everything to their job for minimum wage

of course working hard does not refer to how hard you physically work in the day job. What’s meant by worked hard to achieve it is much wider.

it’s how hard you worked for educational achievement, professional and personal development, career progression , opportunity sourcing, future skill needs and defelopment, networking, promotion chasing, career mentoring, as well as how hard you work on the job. It’s not just the 9-5 or 7-7, it’s all the other ball breaking work that’s required to move forward and progress.

DosCervezas · 01/02/2023 08:34

So a chartered accountant who earns £150 per hour because they did 5 years university and training , which of course required dedication, has worked harder than a care assistant who left school at 16 to start work and now and works 50 hours a week for £500?
They might be brighter, they might be better at exams, they might have done more studying, their skills might be more lucrative. But work harder? No.

Lampzade · 01/02/2023 08:47

Twawmyarse2 · 31/01/2023 19:32

It’s a British thing IMO - people generally don’t like to see others getting ahead.

The amount of threads to do with property that all seem to end the same way: greedy, evil, money-grabbing landlords - it just smacks of envy and resentment. I am the type of person who genuinely wishes others well and doesn’t care what people spend their money on - but even on the style & beauty board I don’t feel I can’t talk about luxury items as it inevitably becomes a “why are you paying £1k for a handbag - you need your head testing” type thread. I just can’t be arsed getting into it.

I think the phrase “misery likes company” is often very apt!

This

Beezknees · 01/02/2023 08:53

Overgrowngrasslady · 01/02/2023 08:17

but I won't have it that they work any harder than millions of people giving everything to their job for minimum wage

of course working hard does not refer to how hard you physically work in the day job. What’s meant by worked hard to achieve it is much wider.

it’s how hard you worked for educational achievement, professional and personal development, career progression , opportunity sourcing, future skill needs and defelopment, networking, promotion chasing, career mentoring, as well as how hard you work on the job. It’s not just the 9-5 or 7-7, it’s all the other ball breaking work that’s required to move forward and progress.

That's not working harder. It's working smarter.

Not everyone has the capacity to do degrees and networking either. Where I work, there are people who really struggle with the seemingly simplest task.

Lampzade · 01/02/2023 08:54

It is called Jealousy and envy and is really ugly

Lampzade · 01/02/2023 09:00

It is not necessarily about wealthier people working harder, it is about individual choices.
People who for example studied economics and went into investment banking are going to earn more than someone who works as a nurse.

Beezknees · 01/02/2023 09:06

Lampzade · 01/02/2023 09:00

It is not necessarily about wealthier people working harder, it is about individual choices.
People who for example studied economics and went into investment banking are going to earn more than someone who works as a nurse.

Yes. But public sector pay has not increased in level with inflation, while investment bankers have got richer and richer.

Nobody expects a nurse to be a millionaire, but a decent standard of living should be the norm!

DorritLittle · 01/02/2023 09:07

Having money isn't just about income though

Agree. You can have a high income and massive costs, and a low income and loads of equity. I do raise my eyebrows at some of the holiday threads (but definitely because I am jealous!) but money issues are complicated. We can't assume that 'well off' people don't have any money problems, particularly at the moment.

MrsGhandi · 01/02/2023 09:14

DosCervezas · 01/02/2023 08:34

So a chartered accountant who earns £150 per hour because they did 5 years university and training , which of course required dedication, has worked harder than a care assistant who left school at 16 to start work and now and works 50 hours a week for £500?
They might be brighter, they might be better at exams, they might have done more studying, their skills might be more lucrative. But work harder? No.

I imagine that it's part of supply and demand too - there's not too many brain surgeons, or even accountants but there are many people who can be a carer. It's about skills in demand too surely which determines the rewards.

FloorWipes · 01/02/2023 09:16

It is not necessarily about wealthier people working harder, it is about individual choices.
People who for example studied economics and went into investment banking are going to earn more than someone who works as a nurse.

And thank goodness some people do choose to become nurses, an incredibly skilled and challenging role which is insufficiently compensated. We must ensure their pay increases.

Sincerely

An economics graduate

saraclara · 01/02/2023 09:20

DorritLittle · 01/02/2023 09:07

Having money isn't just about income though

Agree. You can have a high income and massive costs, and a low income and loads of equity. I do raise my eyebrows at some of the holiday threads (but definitely because I am jealous!) but money issues are complicated. We can't assume that 'well off' people don't have any money problems, particularly at the moment.

Unless give inherited a stately home, a high income does give you choices though.
Yes, someone with a high income might well have taken on a large mortgage that is about to become problematic. But that was a choice that they had, and they made. And the house gives them a lifestyle that many will envy.

I can sympathise with their immediate situation, but again, as a pp pointed out, someone who has a high income had probably also gathered items such as good and relatively new cars, that they can sell. And maybe skills and connections in their work that enable them to take on some extra work.

I just think that trying to give the impression that you're not wealthy, when that's due to decisions you've been fortunate to be able to make, isn't a good look, when others are on the bones of their lives, scrabbling to find money to put an hour's heating on their pre pay meter.

LightSpeeds · 01/02/2023 09:21

People earning £10 an hour often work their absolute butts off too.

Andante57 · 01/02/2023 09:23

LindorDoubleChoc · Yesterday 19:06
I'm not keen on really wealthy people generally, no

How much money does someone have to have for you not to be keen on them?

Fizbosshoes · 01/02/2023 09:27

howrudeforme · 31/01/2023 19:19

I get the impression that most people in here have plenty money.

Me too.
If you read enough posts about what people earn, you'd be forgiven for thinking the average uk salary was about 90k.
A thread a few months back included a few posters quite incredulous that anyone in London earned less than 30k.😳 For every financier on 200k there's probably 10 people working in sainsburys/pret/retail/hospitality/cleaners/Station staff etc on not much more than NMW.

FloorWipes · 01/02/2023 09:36

I imagine that it's part of supply and demand too - there's not too many brain surgeons, or even accountants but there are many people who can be a carer. It's about skills in demand too surely which determines the rewards.

Yes and no because there are arguable distortions at work in these labour markets. Some of these high paid professions are propped up by structural barriers around training (lack of availability and high cost) and licenses (over requirement) though maybe not when it comes to brain surgery. AI could massively disrupt this.

Meanwhile our determination to view caring roles as something comparatively unskilled and that should be open to most is unfortunate.

Catisasleep · 01/02/2023 09:39

My sister is a nurse and said that when nursing degrees came into being, they struggled to get newly qualified nurses to do the basics on the basis they had a degree. Nurses absolutely deserve better pay and conditions. But I often wonder that at higher pay, will it attract candidates whose motives are more money focussed

Namechangenoidea · 01/02/2023 09:42

I just hate it when people say we earn £1000000s of Pounds but we work hard for our money. Implying other people dont! Alot of people work hard for their money even if its not as much.

bbgx · 01/02/2023 09:43

@TrudyProud yes, people with less money get less help, as they should. If it's so tough on combined salary of £100k+ for some people (with own horn as well), I'd suggest a job at KFC, then you get all the added benefits (woo!)

The worst ones have to be disposable income ones, to be fair though. I think those really are just a wind up

DosCervezas · 01/02/2023 10:01

Namechangenoidea · 01/02/2023 09:42

I just hate it when people say we earn £1000000s of Pounds but we work hard for our money. Implying other people dont! Alot of people work hard for their money even if its not as much.

Indeed, and that is always the subtext when someone makes that statement.
There are many people wouldn't last a day changing dirty bedding in a hospital, hotel or care home on minimum wage , being timed to the limits against the clock. Hence such sectors are unable to fill vacancies. And with staff shortages come bigger workloads for those there. They work as hard as anyone.