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Original poster

Why does MN seem to hate people who have 'money'

237 replies

febbabies2023 · 31/01/2023 18:19

Genuine question

I've read a few posts where people have asked for advice etc on a topic that heavily revolves around money or property etc

Quite often on those threads, people seem to bash them or become quite nasty even though the thread was asking for advice etc

Why does Mumsnet seem to have an issue with people who are 'weathly'? And wealthy / a high earner is different for everyone right?

Someone earning 25k a year will see someone on 50k as a high earner. Someone on 60k will see someone on 100k as a high earner and so on.

I know times are tough for some people, but it seems that people forget that some of these high earners have worked their absolute butts off to get where they are? Or is that unreasonable?

OP posts:
DancingOnTheBeach · 31/01/2023 20:33

ChiefWiggumsBoy · 31/01/2023 20:17

I know times are tough for some people, but it seems that people forget that some of these high earners have worked their absolute butts off to get where they are? Or is that unreasonable?

Largely because of this attitude. Is the care worker on minimum wage not worthy of a high wage? They're also 'working their butts off'.

People don't hate those with money. But it is crass to come on a site and ask for help with financial worries that essentially boil down to 'I have no idea how to make even the most basic of budgets because I've never had to'. Those that do that have no sense that sometimes they're asking people with less than half their income to offer help and assistance. Especially when they could just google 'budget planner' and use an ounce of that nous they all claim to have when it comes to earning the bloody money Hmm

Lots of things people ask on here could be googled. What’s the best dog food?, How can I get my my toddler to sleep?, How do make a birthday cake? If you can’t help you just don’t post. But apparently when it’s money you can post a nasty comment and it’s justified.

PennyToffee · 31/01/2023 20:33

bellsbuss · 31/01/2023 20:25

I had my arse handed to me once when someone started a thread about what income you would class as being rich. DH was earning lower end of 6 figures at the time and I posted that and said we were not rich. We are not rich as we have a large family and all the expenses that come with that. Yes we are comfortable but comfortable and rich are 2 different things. One poster really went to town on me.

You are rich though. The fact you have a large family doesn't stop the fact your DH earns the famous MN 6 figures.

QuitMoaning · 31/01/2023 20:38

I was reading a thread a while ago (maybe a year or two) which was trying to define rich.
Someone posted “I fucking hate rich people”.

Just that. It has stuck with me because I fell above the threshold decided on the thread of being rich and I was hated for just existing.

Stillgoingstronger · 31/01/2023 20:39

TheDofS · 31/01/2023 20:24

The thing is it is not just good fortune if people are comfortably off. People may have made decisions or done things that others may not choose to do - they may have slogged away at something day and night, they may have worked at a place or in a place others would not ( as in our case). They were maybe cautious with money and thought about the future and made moves to secure that. It's more than a case of bad luck and good luck but I do agree that many women do end up in shit situations because of background and poor choices.

Show quote history

Agree totally. I made good decisions for myself, without the benefit of guidance from my parents or others. I’ve a friend who was cooking and cleaning for her family at 12 as her parents were addicted to alcohol, now with a property portfolio of a few million. Someone else I know had everything growing up but never had the ambition to achieve so is struggling to understand why her lifestyle wasn’t maintained. I won’t feel bad about my good decisions

BHRK · 31/01/2023 20:40

I agree that it’s inverted snobbery and jealousy some of the time, plus people on here do like to be nasty.
And there is the idea that MN is only for the suffering when it comes to money….
FWIW I’m a high earner, I don’t claim to be poor, but neither was my good fortune just down to luck.
Some people do get wealthier through hard work and determination despite their backgrounds … that’s just a fact.
it doesn’t mean those with less don’t work hard as well. Of course they do, millions of people do

Beezknees · 31/01/2023 20:41

MN does not hate rich people. MN hates rich people that act like they're not rich.

Even if you have a massive mortgage/6 kids/private school fees... you are still rich. Those are CHOICES you have made. Just admit that you're wealthy and own it, stop trying to pretend you understand what it's like to struggle.

MrsTerryPratchett · 31/01/2023 20:44

Pretending that massive, structural inequality is OK because a very few people have beaten intergenerational stagnation is very silly. Like using Oprah to prove the US doesn't have a race and sex issue.

Mobility is in a terrible state which means that most of the people who work hard and make good decisions stay poor.

It's mostly luck.

Greenfairydust · 31/01/2023 20:46

I think buy to let landlords for example get criticised and frankly rightly so.

There is something incredibly distasteful about people owning several properties, and contributing to the housing crisis, and funding their lifestyle on the back of tenants...

Same with those on higher incomes who bleat about wanting to claim or not qualifying for child benefit.

Basically people who should be counting their blessings but instead come across as greedy and tone deaf...

ReneBumsWombats · 31/01/2023 20:47

There will always be outliers, but it's very well established that the greatest indication of life outcomes is how you were born.

Beezknees · 31/01/2023 20:47

It's the whole "oh we earn 6 figures but we have a massive mortgage so we aren't well off" that grates people. You ARE well off, you have just chosen to take on a massive mortgage.

safeplanet · 31/01/2023 20:49

Pretending that massive, structural inequality is OK because a very few people have beaten intergenerational stagnation is very silly. Like using Oprah to prove the US doesn't have a race and sex issue.

yep

EndlessReno · 31/01/2023 20:50

TheDofS · 31/01/2023 20:24

The thing is it is not just good fortune if people are comfortably off. People may have made decisions or done things that others may not choose to do - they may have slogged away at something day and night, they may have worked at a place or in a place others would not ( as in our case). They were maybe cautious with money and thought about the future and made moves to secure that. It's more than a case of bad luck and good luck but I do agree that many women do end up in shit situations because of background and poor choices.

Show quote history

It’s an uncomfortable truth that people do have SOME agency over their own lives and that it’s not always a matter of pure chance that other people have more than them. Of course there are massive, massive inequalities and for some people it’s an uphill struggle involving very hard choices and sacrifices.

Not in every case of course but how many threads to we see along the lines of ‘I can’t buy a house’. Lots of sympathy from posters along with practical suggestions like move to a cheaper area, take on a weekend job etc. Shit if your life is there and you want weekends all together as a family but these are options that someone else might take and after a few years be able to buy a small house. That person is then a poster on another thread talking about their mortgage and being laid into for being lucky to be able to buy.

Before I’m pounced on of course it’s not always that simple but a lot of posters REALLY don’t like being told that not everything is 100% out of their control. And that difficult actions are different to impossible ones.

bellac11 · 31/01/2023 20:51

safeplanet · 31/01/2023 19:56

There is a growing narrative in the UK over the last few years that anyone with some money, or a property or a good income is somehow not the salt of the earth or has got where they are with help, particularly where property is concerned.

do you not think social mobility has decreased? I don't know anyone who didn't buy without help, there was a recent article about in the FT but I don't know how to share it.

Social mobility decreased? From when to when?

Certainly not from when I was born to now, its hugely increased

I dont know anyone that bought a property with help, and neither did I. Mainly because my family, and my peers/associates families didnt have the ability to help

Bluecandlepink · 31/01/2023 20:51

Some people do get wealthier through hard work and determination despite their backgrounds … that’s just a fact.

it doesn’t mean those with less don’t work hard as well. Of course they do, millions of people do

The difference is personality. Anyone smart enough with a personality to carry them through will always achieve, irrespective of background or academic ability. My point of reference is people I went to school with, a local comprehensive in a working class city. A number of people who grew up in poverty but had a sparky personality have become very successful.

Think how you respond to the personality of others before you disagree.

JeepersCreepersWheredYaGetThosePeepers · 31/01/2023 20:52

Some people are jealous.

Equally they probably don't like it as people appear to be boasting?

theworldhas · 31/01/2023 20:55

@Beezknees
Even if you have a massive mortgage/6 kids/private school fees... you are still rich. Those are CHOICES you have made. Just admit that you're wealthy and own it, stop trying to pretend you understand what it's like to struggle

you’re right on your general point about choices, but also wrong as the crazy thing is that there are very high earners who do struggle. The problem (if that the right word) is that many people earning higher salaries start living to the upper most limit of their means as soon as the money starts coming in. Of course our society actively encourages this, as it’s not enough for someone to be rich on our society they need to SHOW they are rich. So upgrade perfectly nice 3 bed house for a 4/5 bed which costs twice as much for mortgage and is a pain in the butt to keep clean. Upgrade perfectly nice car for one that costs you an extra 5k a year in maintenance and depreciation etc etc

Beezknees · 31/01/2023 20:55

Bluecandlepink · 31/01/2023 20:51

Some people do get wealthier through hard work and determination despite their backgrounds … that’s just a fact.

it doesn’t mean those with less don’t work hard as well. Of course they do, millions of people do

The difference is personality. Anyone smart enough with a personality to carry them through will always achieve, irrespective of background or academic ability. My point of reference is people I went to school with, a local comprehensive in a working class city. A number of people who grew up in poverty but had a sparky personality have become very successful.

Think how you respond to the personality of others before you disagree.

Confidence and self esteem plays a big part too, I think. If you think you're no good at anything and get stuck in that mindset, you're going to struggle.

MrsTerryPratchett · 31/01/2023 20:55

Lots of sympathy from posters along with practical suggestions like move to a cheaper area

Which would be fine if one of the main drivers of social inequality in the UK wasn't geography. In the North social inequity and mobility is worse. Move somewhere cheaper and your children are MORE likely to have less than the DC of people who stayed in a wealthier area.

The other is education. In a cheaper area the schools are more likely to struggle. Again, meaning your DC are less likely to have mobility.

Work weekends and your children don't benefit from your enrichment of their lives. Yet another way in which they will likely not thrive.

And live away and you have less access to childcare, which means your chances of promotion are less.

And on and on. You can pretend there are hard but simple ways to advance. That just isn't true when the structure of society is actively working against it.

Bluecandlepink · 31/01/2023 20:56

Equally they probably don't like it as people appear to be boasting?

Can’t they just avoid threads that they can’t relate to? I don’t read style and beauty threads on which mulberry bag to get as it’s not my thing. Pregnancy threads are avoided by many for obvious reasons. It’s a broad church here

Beezknees · 31/01/2023 20:58

theworldhas · 31/01/2023 20:55

@Beezknees
Even if you have a massive mortgage/6 kids/private school fees... you are still rich. Those are CHOICES you have made. Just admit that you're wealthy and own it, stop trying to pretend you understand what it's like to struggle

you’re right on your general point about choices, but also wrong as the crazy thing is that there are very high earners who do struggle. The problem (if that the right word) is that many people earning higher salaries start living to the upper most limit of their means as soon as the money starts coming in. Of course our society actively encourages this, as it’s not enough for someone to be rich on our society they need to SHOW they are rich. So upgrade perfectly nice 3 bed house for a 4/5 bed which costs twice as much for mortgage and is a pain in the butt to keep clean. Upgrade perfectly nice car for one that costs you an extra 5k a year in maintenance and depreciation etc etc

But again, those are choices. Nobody is going to have sympathy for a wealthy person who is struggling because they decided to buy a massive house and fancy car. Sell your car. Downsize your house. There are options. When you are poor and you rent your house and don't own a car, you have nothing to fall back on.

safeplanet · 31/01/2023 20:59

Social mobility decreased? From when to when?

In recent years, like all the talk about what impact covid has had & how living standards are going backwards.

Certainly not from when I was born to now, its hugely increased

I don't know when you were born but I'm an 80s child. My immigrant parents bought a house in the 80s in a rough part of London on one salary. Those houses are now about 2m and the area has changed beyond recognition.

I dont know anyone that bought a property with help, and neither did I.

Of course plenty of people buy with help but it's certainly normal in London to have help.

MrsTerryPratchett · 31/01/2023 21:00

Social mobility decreased? From when to when?

Certainly not from when I was born to now, its hugely increased

By its nature intergenerational mobility takes years to measure. And your 'reckons' aren't data.

The UK's is thought to be worse than in the post-war era. That's been my experience as well.

RaiseTheStakesAndMakeTheLastWordDuckhead · 31/01/2023 21:00

NashvilleQueen · 31/01/2023 19:12

If you've been here a while you know that there's a lot of posters genuinely struggling. I always cringe a little at the 'my diamond shoes are too tight' type posts because it feels incredibly crass just now.

Agree.

The 'tell me what you earn' threads make me want to barf at the insensitivity right now.

ReneBumsWombats · 31/01/2023 21:01

RaiseTheStakesAndMakeTheLastWordDuckhead · 31/01/2023 21:00

Agree.

The 'tell me what you earn' threads make me want to barf at the insensitivity right now.

Show quote history

I really think those are wind ups. I wish people would ignore them.

Bluecandlepink · 31/01/2023 21:03

Nobody is going to have sympathy for a wealthy person who is struggling because they decided to buy a massive house and fancy car. Sell your car. Downsize your house. There are options

People will always buy what they can afford. I defy anyone to earn a salary that gets them a bigger car and out of a 2 up 2 down, and choose not to do it. There comes a time when things get tight as costs go up, the same for any family, but you’ve become accustomed to what you have. It’s human nature.