OMFG Children being kidnapped from Home Office Hotel

[MorelloKisses]

Children kidnapped from Home Office hotel

"A whistleblower, who works for Home Office, describes children being abducted off the street outside the hotel and bundled into cars".

How is this not top news story?? Those poor children.

That can't be right. Starmer has no policies.

But Jeremy Corbyn.
Keir's beer
At least whoever is this week's Tory leader knows what a woman is.

Since most of those who enter or stay in the UK illegally do so through airports, may I propose a solution to this immigration problem that is blighting the country @BewareTheLibrarians

Close down all UK airports, then we would have much better control of OUR borders.

Can you desist, it’s weird online behaviour to keep hounding someone in this way. Whatever is going on with you sort it out.

I’m not interested.

A statement by the Foreign Affairs committee is not proof that lack of ‘safe routes’ caused them to go on boats.

So still you’d end up adding a safe route in addition to all the irregular ones.

The large majority of those taking the boats are young men, who wouldn’t be prioritised by this scheme and anyway, no one really wants to accept young single men (unless you want cheap workers, that is) and I think they are quite right. Women and families are more suitable for these community settings

Quite frankly, the complaint that the money is going to dodgy hotel owners and not the community … well, it’s too much of a safeguarding risk to place them in care homes and foster homes. An unrelated male in the home is very very risky for children, let’s never lose sight of it.

“A policy that focuses exclusively on closing borders will drive migrants to take more dangerous routes, and push them into the hands of criminal groups,” the report said.

This part is exactly focusing on the Albanian issue though Marsha. Lack of safe routes leads to increased boat crossings. Boat crossings are an easy way for Albanian trafficking gangs to traffick their victims, therefore the numbers increase. An increase in reliance on boats means an increase in numbers of trafficked people. The point is that the government knew this was a risk and did nothing. Is that defensible?

I thought in pp it had been agreed that there wouldn’t be safe routes from Albania

It’s hard to keep track of what people want. Do you now think there should be safe routes from Albania?

A statement by the Foreign Affairs committee is not proof that lack of ‘safe routes’ caused them to go on boats.

Yes, we’re all agreed that the work of the Foreign Affairs Committee and numerous NGOs that specialise in that area is meaningless because it doesn’t align with your world view. Any chance of providing any evidence that there’s not a link?

The large majority of those taking the boats are young men, who wouldn’t be prioritised by this scheme

Evidence? What scheme are you referring to?

Quite frankly, the complaint that the money is going to dodgy hotel owners and not the community..

Is being hand waved away again. Noted. Why do you think British communities don’t deserve that money?

An unrelated male in the home is very very risky for children, let’s never lose sight of it.

Should white/British boys also be housed in hotels not foster homes? And do children’s group homes not exist? Well, effectively no, due the conservative’s desire to fund private companies rather than communities. If the government had funded group homes there wouldn’t be such a great need for foster carers* and your fears would be abated.

*Not all foster carers have children.

Tbh if Labour want to win over their former base, they should go ‘right’ of the Tories on the immigration issue as left-wing parties traditionally were hostile to immigration (undermined their traditional base).

If they weren’t so in thrall to the NGO-industrial grift, they could do it. It would be a political game-changer for sure.

1. Quite a few are not childern anyway - they just lie to get a better deal (see that one on trial already convicted inSerbia of 2 murders who stabbed a British boy to death. The home office accepted the adult was a child and he went to school with other children, put into a foster home etc.
2. Some will be under 18 but want to come here to work so like the adults often escape from the expensive hotels as they planned all along.
3. Yes, some may be vulnerable children. My solution is return everyone the same day they arrive and if that is not legal change the law.

I’m sorry that this is confusing Marsha, but I’m not sure where we’re getting crossed wires. I think I’ve been very consistent so far! So for clarity, I am not advocating for safe routes from Albania, as explained in my post before.

What I am saying is that the lack of safe routes overall has lead to increased boat crossings. Albanian criminals are exploiting those boat crossings and using them to traffick their victims.

If safe routes (not with Albania) were set up, the number of boat crossings would decrease, leaving fewer options for the traffickers to exploit.

I appreciate it is a complex area, but the insinuation (as it’s not the first time) that I’m saying one thing then the opposite is pretty tiring, when I’ve mostly just been taking the time to explain, well, a complex area.

Some will be under 18 but want to come here to work so like the adults often escape from the expensive hotels as they planned all along.

What kind of work do think think they’re coming here to do Xenia? My 13 yr old is interested in starting work and I wondered what opportunities we have here are literally worth risking death on a boat crossing to take.

Yes, we’re all agreed that the work of the Foreign Affairs Committee and numerous NGOs that specialise in that area is meaningless because it doesn’t align with your world view. Any chance of providing any evidence that there’s not a link

They (and you) are making the claim that the establishment of safe routes will undermine the illegal ones. That’s a pretty big claim and all you have is ‘trust us’. Well, sorry. I don’t trust you (tho I believe your intentions are honest)

Any such safe route scheme would have to prioritise women and families, otherwise the public couldn’t support it. I see young men at the very back of the line, if at all.

Should white/British boys also be housed in hotels not foster homes

We know their age and background for certain, so that’s one key difference. And no, older teen males shouldn’t be placed in homes with young children of either sex. Too risky. Why add to that with other teen (at best) males of unknown origin?

And do children’s group homes not exist?

And they are a safeguarding risk there too. Did I not link to one story where a vulnerable girl was gang raped by five so-called child migrants: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3306479/Teenager-claims-gang-raped-five-young-Syrian-migrants-Girl-18-deeply-distressed-subjected-five-hour-ordeal-care-home-Kent.html

This is totally unacceptable and why we cannot have unknown young men just cross the Channel and be housed in places with vulnerable children. Hence they are in hotels.

I’m asking because yes it’s unclear to me not insinuating but I’m losing track of what you are arguing.

But since this thread is about Albanians going missing how is what you’re saying related to that?

You don’t want safe routes from Albania so we’d still have trafficking and people leaving accommodation

It’s up for discussion whether we’d still have it with these routes but for simplification I’m saying your argument re decreasing these crossings doesn’t apply to this thread which is focussed on Albania.

Or are you saying that Albanians can’t organise the crossings without other countries doing the same? Why do they need that to do their own. They are in ports and towns in EU already, the Albanian gangs have spread to various locations, can’t they just do the crossing part.

They (and you) are making the claim that the establishment of safe routes will undermine the illegal ones. That’s a pretty big claim and all you have is ‘trust us’. Well, sorry. I don’t trust you (tho I believe your intentions are honest)

And that’s your choice. However, you also haven’t provided any evidence that your plan of “completely stop the boats” is viable, or any evidence that men wouldn’t be able to access safe routes even from countries where men are specifically targeted more than women, so I’d suggest you don’t hold me to higher standards than you hold yourself.

Or are you saying that Albanians can’t organise the crossings without other countries doing the same? Why do they need that to do their own. They are in ports and towns in EU already, the Albanian gangs have spread to various locations, can’t they just do the crossing part.

I don’t know how I can make “reduces the options for Albanian traffickers” much clearer.

Albanians are perfectly capable of organising crossings, but when they’re the only nationality exploiting these routes, it’s easier for the authorities to target both abroad and in the UK. Im going to have to leave you think think about why as I doing a Clav and skipping off for some lunch ahead of work 😁 I’m sure this will be used in the future as evidence that I “don’t have an answer”, but hunger wins this time!

Enjoy lunch but no I’m not seeing it.

We know they are Albanians it’s not a secret. The figures break down by nationality. We can apply measures to Albania and not other countries. Many do

Look at acceptance figures across EU at zero for Albania.

@BewareTheLibrarians I have understood perfectly well what you are saying.

But then I don't think it is a difficult concept to understand that if there are safe routes for some asylum seekers to come to the UK, those asylum seekers will not be using unsafe Channel crossings. Numbers using unsafe crossing will therefore be lower, and the proportion of those using the Channel route who are not asylum seekers will be higher, so it will harder for the criminal gangs to hide those they are trafikking amoung asylum seekers.

Has your 13yo considered setting up a polling company? I hear they don't have to pay tax.

Current polling suggests that Labour does not have a particular problem winning peoples votes at present.

www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html

People often applaud refugee and asylum practises in EU it has not stopped Albanian crime from flourishing there.

Imo posters are reaching on this one. Safe routes from Iran or other isn’t going to stop Albanian crossings.

It’s not backed up just a hope. Not that Labour are proposing safe routes anyway.

Do you think that young men (by which I mean under 18s) who are traffiked across the Channel are vulnerable children?

Are there any differences between the status of the UK and EU countries that mean it is easier for EU countries to stop Albanian migrants?

Its almost as if not having as comphrehensive police cooperation with our closest neighbours has made things worse.

@BewareTheLibrarians I think you have it back to front. Clav leaves here when they have finished work.

I find it amusing how posters defend Albanian children supposedly but froth about shamina begum an actual British child with no other citizenship is widely supported. The cognitive dissonance is stark. So she's not allowed to be groomed and is fully responsible for decisions from 15 but 17 Yr old Albanian boys are innocent victims. Ok then!

"Are there any differences between the status of the UK and EU countries that mean it is easier for EU countries to stop Albanian migrants?

Its almost as if not having as comphrehensive police cooperation with our closest neighbours has made things worse"

@jgw1: you asked this question. The answer is that mainland Europe gave up on the Albanian problem years ago by simply relaxing their borders and allowing Albanian nationals to enter Schengen without visas which means that Albanians enter and leave at will using their own passports. They are technically not allowed to work in the Schengen area but generally I would suggest that grape picking, olive picking and any other hard agricultural labour intensive work in Greece and Italy etc is done largely by illegal Albanian nationals and a blind eye is turned.

However, Schengen state border officers do not entertain asylum claims from Albanians with the same tolerance that we do in the UK as far as I can tell.

And yet, Albanians who could go to Greece/Italy/France/Germany etc without restriction and work albeit illegally, still choose to pay agents £££££ and come to the UK. I only imagine it's the lure of the "Forbidden Fruit". We are an island and they require visas to get here legally. So I think that they imagine they we are hiding magical money trees on this island and there is something special here that they cannot find in Germany. True, immigration policies are lax (believe me, very very few people are sent back to their country of origin despite what they Home Office would like you all to think) and we have an indigenous population that likes to smoke weed so they are filling a hole in the labour market.

Are Albanians criminals? I work with them by the way (as in service users, not colleagues). They're nice enough generally; many are really pleasant and often extremely well educated. But they are desperately poor and have grown up in a culture where life is cheap, crime pays and corruption rules. So make of that what you will.

I'm not an expert, I don't have the answer. If I did, I'd become Home Secretary!