"I don't do relationships"

[JoonT]

Over Christmas, I went to a party and got talking to a girl in her early 20s. I asked if her partner was there, and she replied "I don't do relationships." She went on to explain that she had no intention of ever being in a relationship or having kids. She was completely focused on her career and didn't want all the 'hassle' (her word). I also have a cousin who is 38 and lives alone. She has never had a relationship either (she's one of the happiest people I know!). Do you think it is becoming more common? I mean for people to choose not to "do relationships" at all? I'm not judging such people. I'm just curious.

My own feeling is that it is more common. And I suspect it's because of several things. First of all, people live longer, and (if they take care of themselves) do so in better health. That looks set to continue. Pretty soon we may ever have life extension drugs that slow the ageing of the body. So they don't need a partner to care for them as they age. Second, women now have careers. They also have better access to training and education, which enables them to pursue those careers. Finally, lots of women now choose not to have kids. In the past, women (and men) often put up with hellish marriages for the sake of the children.

Something else I've noticed is that young people increasingly choose not to drink alcohol. I wonder if the two are related?

Not all of our DS's are arseholes.

Believe me, most people think you are odd if you are single and don't plan on changing that. I know because I live that life.

I'm happily married but I wouldn't date if he wasn't around anymore. Only because he is my best friend and I've just turned 50.

There is nothing wrong with being single and I can understand how some people choose this after having two rubbish relationships before DH.

@Itslookinggood I know what you mean, I'm v content on my own but can feel a bit left out in a social sense. I only have a few friends who are single. I want more, but don't necessarily click with people just cos they're also single!

Some women are arseholes too. I know a few.

Same and I agree that some do. I just care am lot less about that attitude the older I get.

It's interesting to see women ask what is the upside? If you have a good job, house, financial security, the partner has got to bring fun, kindness, social skills etc.

Some men, consciously or unconsciously, are just looking for women to help them and deploy all this fun and charm until there's a shared space and possibly children.

If you add in some sexual expectations conditioned by pornography then it's not too surprising that women decide no thanks.

The other thing is socialising. Heterosexual socialising and coupledom is very conformist. Often the women don't want a single women as competition or the men crack on to you! In more mixed circles in cities it seems to be less like this. You can have a life away from this sort of socialising more easily I think and be happy.

@LexMitior yes, true, I decided I would work on being braver rather than work on "finding somebody". Even typing that makes me feel tired mentally!

Yes. When I lived in cities and was single I had married friends and was treated normally. In this town I've moved to I am sometimes ignored by married people, presumably cos they see me as a 'system threat '.

Yes, this is very true. The pressure to form long-term relationships has caused men just as much unhappiness as women. My poor grandfather, for example, had a rotten life with my miserable, selfish, screeching grandmother. He was a kind, easy-going old chap who loved his darts and football, enjoyed a pint with his mates, etc. He wasn’t really the marrying kind, and would have been much happier as a bachelor. Instead of that, he ended up in a tiny, terraced council house with her nagging him 24/7. It was awful. She wasn’t happy either.

I’m not anti-relationship btw. I hope people always fall in love and commit. But there are lots and lots of people who just aren’t suited to marriage - both male and female.

I agree

I don't want my partner to be my carer in old age so that's definitely not a reason for me.

How does being sober link to lack of relationships?

I think there's less social pressure. You can still have sex life without a relationship these days too.

He sounded lovely.

My Aunt is a lovely woman but never married or had children. I think she thought she should have at some points in her life but I don't think she could have enjoyed living with someone else. She is a happy person.

Interesting. That’s a good example of the kind of thing that pushes people into toxic relationships. It’s also one of the reasons people have kids. In essence, they don’t want to be left out/behind. We’re hard-wired to fear exclusion from the tribe. So people (especially women) end up grabbing the first available partner. I bet everyone reading this knows someone who reached their 30s, panicked, had a child with the wrong person, and spent the following twenty years regretting it.

I can think of two young women who’ve married unsuitable guys. One is a niece, the other is the daughter of a close friend. They are strikingly similar actually. Both have got degrees, both love their jobs, both want to travel and do exciting things. Their partners are nice enough, but they’re just so flippin boring. Neither has ever read a book. In fact, other than football and video games, they don’t seem to be interested in anything. They have no opinions and no ambition. They literally cannot hold a conversation - or can’t be bothered. Men like that - boring, ignorant, always moaning - used to take their wives for granted. Nowadays, they can’t. I’d be amazed if the marriages last, frankly.

In both cases, I suspect, these women married because it was what they felt they ought to do. They were just trying to keep up with their friends. But I never sense that they enjoy being with these men. They hardly ever mention them. Whereas they talk about their jobs and their friends and their travel plans all the time. Hopefully, we’ll reach a point where it becomes so common for people not to marry that the pressure disappears. Then people (both male and female) will only get into relationships for the right reason - because they sincerely love the other person and really enjoy being with them.

Hopefully, we’ll reach a point where it becomes so common for people not to marry that the pressure disappears. Then people (both male and female) will only get into relationships for the right reason - because they sincerely love the other person and really enjoy being with them
I agree but I think this would also result in significantly lower birth rates, a good thing in the long term but in the short-term it could cause immense difficulty.
I think it could end up being SO difficult to incentivise women to have children that governments will end up having to pay them to be mothers.

The pressure to form long-term relationships has caused men just as much unhappiness as women
I agree with this but I think that at least some of the pressure is economic, in other words in order to have a decent lifestyle you need to pool resources?

I think also the location of where you live is important. Women will do better if they have more connections outside of their partnership. There is a bit of me that cringes when people move out to the countryside after having lived an urban life and this is sold as simple, less stress or romantic. It does work for some, of course, but for a lot of women they quickly find that the space to be then outside traditional roles of wife and mother barely exist. A few years later and the man can be totally oblivious to this and she is bored to death, resents her life, her relationship and has no way out as usually the deal is he keeps working in a city but her life is now very conformist and traditional in what she is expected to do by him, the neighbours, their social circle, the school, the activities available.

I think it is the death of a lot relationships in mid life. The woman has been reduced in her partners eyes, he gets bored. She is desperate to have more of a life and resents him.

It's very common. Cities offer so much freedom to women.

I find the whole single female threat hilariously sad.

Married/coupled women hate me because I'm single and I am apparently a threat. (Honestly, I don't know why I'm so threatening - I have a nice face, but I'm big fat whale. I'd understand it more if I was actually model pretty. I'm not.)

Not that I'd tell them, but I do frequently get hit on by married men. I do nothing to initiate this, and I put them back in their box. I have no interest in starting a relationship with some slimy creep who thinks it's OK to chase after another woman whilst his wife is nursing and insecure about her post-pregnancy weight.

1) Why do they think I'm so desperate to want a man like that?
2) Why are they so desperate to keep a man like that?

I mean, in both cases, c'mon ladies, we can all do better.

The really sad thing is, they clearly think this is it. Otherwise why feel so threatened? If they had better standards for themselves, they'd be reconciled to chucking their partners if they tried to cheat on them, not blaming some woman who has zero loyalty to them (well, other than the girl code, obviously).

We're conditioned to accept such poor behaviour from men. That gender has really done a number on us.

Like @theycallmejane I worked very, very hard at my career. I grew up in poverty and lived alone from age 16 so I worked very hard because I wanted a different life. I worked full time to pay rent while studying full time as well, to complete my GCSEs then do A levels and a degree. After that I did my professional qualification while working full time, then worked 80-100 hours per week for the next ten years to get to a good stage in my career before marrying and having children.

That now means I can work flexibly so I can manage with two small children with additional needs and provide them with a lovely home. I suppose I'd learned very young that you should never rely on anybody, especially not financially, so I made sure I could always support us no matter what. Sure, we'd be better off if I wasn't paying all childcare and mortgage on my own, there would be more luxuries. But we are fine. It takes a lot of hard work but can be done.

I'll be teaching my children to do that same. I think it's very, very unhealthy for finances and relationships to become mixed because that is how people get trapped into miserable lives and relationships that they should leave but don't feel they can.

Yes, cities do offer a lot of freedom to women. Which is why they are regarded as Sodom & Gomorrah by a substantial proportion of the population. Although when I lived in cities I was mostly to be found buying a loaf or having an early night. But let them fantasise...

Indeed, it's only since living in a town that I've realised how terrible a lot of male-female relationships are. I have had lots of married women telling me they envy me. This isn't something I like. I don't court it. In fact I sort of miss my old life in the city where I was regarded as an affable loser who had failed to pair up but who had lots of other interests. Cos in the town (with the honourable exception of my friends) people seem to regard me as something very threatening and unusual and I prefer a quiet, boring life.

Oh and @theycallmejane absolutely about the ick of the meal ticket seekers, yuk. Or housemaid seekers. Or those looking for someone to be their carer in 20 years!! This is not what relationships should ever be about and I've no interest in it.

Well, here's to being odd then! And freedom. 🥂

It's interesting to see women ask what is the upside? If you have a good job, house, financial security, the partner has got to bring fun, kindness, social skills etc.

@LexMitior yes.

And I wonder how many men realise that this ^^ is what women are expecting from them. Along with respect and loyalty.

Many still seem to hold very outdated views about what a man should provide in a relationship, which just aren't what lots of women need or want anymore. So no wonder they miss the mark and are rejected.

I'd add to that list to be interesting, independent, emotionally available and stable, self-sufficient, capable of adult life and responsible for themselves, financially solvent (not much point meeting someone if they can't afford to go out anywhere to date you ir pay their half of trips/ holidays or whatever as well as their own home!).

Many men really need to up their game.

As I said earlier, those of us raising soms now are hopefully raising better men for the future who won't be so disappointing for our daughters!

Porn definitely had this impact on me for a long time.