"I don't do relationships"

[JoonT]

Over Christmas, I went to a party and got talking to a girl in her early 20s. I asked if her partner was there, and she replied "I don't do relationships." She went on to explain that she had no intention of ever being in a relationship or having kids. She was completely focused on her career and didn't want all the 'hassle' (her word). I also have a cousin who is 38 and lives alone. She has never had a relationship either (she's one of the happiest people I know!). Do you think it is becoming more common? I mean for people to choose not to "do relationships" at all? I'm not judging such people. I'm just curious.

My own feeling is that it is more common. And I suspect it's because of several things. First of all, people live longer, and (if they take care of themselves) do so in better health. That looks set to continue. Pretty soon we may ever have life extension drugs that slow the ageing of the body. So they don't need a partner to care for them as they age. Second, women now have careers. They also have better access to training and education, which enables them to pursue those careers. Finally, lots of women now choose not to have kids. In the past, women (and men) often put up with hellish marriages for the sake of the children.

Something else I've noticed is that young people increasingly choose not to drink alcohol. I wonder if the two are related?

I don't do relationships either, trust me I have tried but the men have always been substandard.
It seems to me that they are looking for someone to service their needs in every way whether or not that is detrimental to my life.
I don't want to be someones mum/sex worker, I was looking for a long term companion who doesn't make any demands on me.
They don't appear to exist.
I have my own home, career, car, DS everything, I don't need a man.
In latter years I've taken to going out everywhere with gay men. They are nice, fun and great to go out to lunch with or to the pub or to a film and are great company.

I don't drink alcohol either - don't know if its related.

It also seems to be that you can't meet people in real life any more - it's all dating apps.

This, and the fact that people don't move for work now, if they work in an office. And they don't go into the office. So many people I know met their partner through work.

I'm 35 and asexual. I've had one relationship and that was more because I felt I was supposed to.

If you are on your own, you kind of have to look after & out for yourself, so it makes sense to not put chemical or addictive substances like alcohol into your body.

I am single. Have found even 'nice' men of my age group have really sexist attitudes under the surface and didnt want to be arsed with having a man child to look after. Still think it was a good decision.

She's smart that girl. I know it works out for some people, they find somebody faithful attractive smart funny and supportive, but at about 49 I realised I had wasted 30 years looking and hoping to find that and failing. Any relationships I had were short, either I was shocked by how badly I'd been mislead/allowed myself to be mislead or, I was dumped as soon as the novelty wore off. It made me carry an unhappiness and a sense of not being good enough around with me for about thirty years and no matter what else was going well I felt the shame and stigma and frustration that I couldn't fix this. Well, I gave up and have felt a lot of peace since then. I know at my age it's probably easier to give up.

Young women who grew up only knowing the internet have access to much more honest and direct views than anyone over the age of say 45
I think this is huge, the ability to crowd source other people's experiences, for women to collaborate much more widely than they ever could before, it's broken the hold that men had over women.
If you're in a difficult relationship but you don't know that other people are having similar experiences you tend to feel as if it's your fault and of course the abusive person wants you to feel like that, once you see other people having similar experiences you can spot the patterns in the way the abusers operate, it changes everything

The thing about stigmas is that they do still exist sort of . If you're an above averagely attractive woman with an above averagely well paid job and a circle of friends then no, you're not judged or pitied or put down.

But if you're very average looking, get by in your average job, have a place to live but but it's not gorgeous, a few friends but no big circle..... your life might be very very similar to the life of many married women but there is an element of pity directed at you by some people .

I have children but I'm single and have been for over a decade really. There are a couple of people who've kind of clumsily made it obvious that they pity me. The funny thing is, they were kind of obvious people pleasers. I'm trying not to be a PP and that was what got me in to the shit relationship that I'm so glad I left.

I can see why more people remain single now they have more choice. I was married, now divorced, and like several PP said can't see what the point of another relationship would be. I have my own home, career, friends, working towards early retirement in my early 50s I hope, love living with just DC and would certainly never entertain introducing a man into their lives let alone their home. This space is for me and them.

It would take a lot to convince me to bother to date someone even. The idea of "advertising" yourself online and having to deal with lots of stupid messages to filter out idiots seems cringey and exhausting. I can only imagine people doing that if they really, really want to date. When I go out I like to have dinner with friends, relaxing familiar company that is fun. Thinking about it even if I met someone naturally, giving up my little bit of "me" time to go on dates and have to make an effort with small talk to get to know someone and get past initial awkwardness etc, uuugh. So I suppose it would only happen if I met someone through friends and got to know them slowly in other situations and could skip that whole part of it that it would even be possible.

I love time on my own and am never lonely. I never have enough time to do what I want to do! I do wonder whether when the DC leave home and friends are older so don't want to meet as much potentially, if I might get lonely though. Although I loved living alone before marriage. Perhaps it would be nice in 15 years or so - when I'm nearing my planned retirement age - to find someone to hang out with regularly, go on holidays with sometimes? But I have less and less tolerance for any crap or irritating behaviour from people, neediness or drama, so I think it'd be hard to find someone I clicked with and found interesting enough to make it worthwhile. Someone worth spending time with but who is on the same page about never living together, never entangling finances, not making demands and just meeting up sometimes if and when we both felt like it. And also attractive enough: most men my age look awful! Can't remember the last time I saw one who looked physically attractive to me.

Maybe people will have relationships now in a different way, much less of this "all or nothing" idea that you must live in the same house, marry, financially tie yourselves together, aim to stay together forever, only ever have emotional or physical intimacy with one person? Maybe lots of people will have relationships of sorts but maintain far more independence. There's much less cause for frustration or people staying in unhappy relationships if you don't get sucked into living together or being financially co-dependent, so it may be far healthier and lead to happy relationships that actually last longer! Who knows. Will be interesting to see what the current 20 somethings who are staying single are doing in 20 years: whether they've stayed on that path or change their minds later.

Despite my marriage being a disaster I wouldn't change it now I'm free as I'm really glad I had my DCs. But I'm much happier now I'm divorced! Men now kind of seem... obsolete? I have some lovely male friends but can't see what a relationship would add to my life really. Friends generally moan about their husbands a lot...

I think it's also due to the attitudes that a significant proportion of middle-aged men still hold: there was interesting research showing that a large percentage of men prefer to marry women less educated than them, less successful. Probably because they want to be in control, want a housemaid, etc. So an educated, successful woman with high standards will have a much smaller pool of potential men she would accept as relationship material than a man of similar success/ education. And I think it's brilliant that many women are actively choosing that they won't "settle" for men who can't offer them a satisfying relationship as equals intellectually, financially, etc, and are actually quite happy on their own. IMO a large proportion of men need to raise their game significantly in terms of their attitudes towards women and relationships etc if they hope to ever find a partner who will stick around.

I think this is very true. I wonder if it (partly) explains the high male suicide rate?

really agree with all of this. I am actually seeing someone, we’ve been together a year but before that I’d been happily single for about three years and wasn’t looking at all. Then he popped up and ruined my singledom!

I told him right from the start that I would always prioritise myself as an individual first. I expected us both to continue living as independent, autonomous people that choose to spend time with each other because it’s mutually nice for both of us. I won’t move in with him. I consider my friends as important in my life as him. I don’t see the relationship as an entity that must be elevated above everything else in life and cause me to change who I am and how I live - my independence comes first. It’s the most successful relationship I’ve ever had!

Like I said before we met I was happily single and content with the idea of being so indefinitely, maybe forever. Marriage sounds like incarceration to me. Why would I want to legally tie everything that’s mine with someone else? If we break up - because I don’t believe in the concept of ‘forever’ I’ll be happy single again.

I think this is very true. I wonder if it (partly) explains the high male suicide rate?

I'm not sure about that, possibly. I think more likely that the failure in relationships and high suicide rate have the same route cause: that many men were raised not to recognise or express their emotions, which can lead to disfunctional relationships and mental health problems. It starts with "boys are brave, boys don't cry" etc and then continues into their friendships, family relationships and relationships with partners. It's very destructive and I hope all of us raising sons are trying hard to raise this generation of boys differently: it's not just about respecting women or pulling their weight in an equal relationship financially and at home, it's about being emotionally healthy people who can express their emotions. It's why men seek help from therapists and doctors far less, too. Gender stereotypes harm many men as much as they harm women. Maybe when a generation of people (hopefully!) mostly raised without such stereotypes - or with far less of it - are adults, relationships in general will work better and men and women might find them more beneficial!

I think this is very true. I wonder if it (partly) explains the high male suicide rate?

Although I'm sure you're right in that there is certainly a smaller group of men who feel entitled to a woman to be their housemaid and available for sex and are absolutely furious that many more women have now realised that they do not need to do this and decided not to. We all know about the incels!

*root cause!

I'm mot illiterate I promise. Just very tired today. 🤣

I am curious as to why you would assume that someone you don't know have a partner?

But yes, have been divorced twice and lots of relationship before and after, I just want to live my life on my own terms and not be bothered about compromising for a partner. I love my time, my company, my peace, my silence.

And I stopped drinking alcohol 7 years ago just because there was nothing for me in it.

I've already (very light-heartedly) agreed with my ex-SIL if dh croaks it first we will house share to keep each other company in our old age/reduce costs.

We have also agreed the rough location, it will be a bungalow with 2 reception rooms so we can have our own space when we get fed up with the sight of each other! We have even mulled over building/designing our own bungalow suited for two living together but separately, and wondered if having a civil partnership on paper would grant us access to the spousal element of each others pensions.

It kind of makes dh slightly uncomfortable us enthusiastically planning what we will be doing after his demise. 🤣

Ideally, I wouldn't like to live with a man again. I'm coming to the end of my twenties and am open to the idea of another relationship, but like someone else, said I look back on previous ones and am horrified at what I put up with. I genuinely also credit Mumsnet for this realisation too. I still see so much deeply rooted sexism in the men I date and I've managed to create a really great life for myself, there isn't a chance in hell I'm letting someone come in and offload all their baggage onto me. I do like the idea of adjacent flats and a shared pet though!

A certain type of man is now being left behind: the low-skilled, poorly educated, 'macho' type who (as you say) were never taught to express emotion. And I suspect it's this sort of man who drives up the male suicide rate. Women will reach out, which would explain why, though women are twice as likely to suffer depression, they are less likely to kill themselves. It's a striking statistic.

There's nothing wrong with being single or childless. Many very happy people live such a life. But to be single and childless and isolated isn't healthy. And that's the situation a lot of men now find themselves in. I have noticed this a lot. I can think of several young men who dropped out of school, never read anything, have poor social skills, struggle to hold a conversation, seem uninterested in anything, etc. To be brutally honest, they're boring. Whereas I can think of few female equivalents. Most young women I know seem much more focused and ambitious. They often have degrees, or fulfilling careers, or lots of friends. And they just seem to enjoy life more. They travel, get excited about stuff, etc. They're not anti-romance or anti-relationships, but they won't put up with the crap their grandmothers put up with.

Until very recently, that kind of man – dull, uneducated, miserable, anti-social, etc – would have had a wife to rely on. She'd have moaned constantly about how dull he is, how he never wants to do anything, etc, but she'd have accepted it. She'd have cooked his dinner, washed his socks, kept him company. My dad was a bit like that. He had no friends, and sort of clung to my mother, literally sulking when she went out for an evening. Now that divorce is easier, and it's more acceptable to remain single, such men are finding it harder to cope. Nobody wants them. The only things left are weed, alcohol and video games. There was a thread on MN a while ago about young guys who still live at home and do nothing all day except play video games. That's the sort of guy I'm thinking of. Young women seem to be leaving them behind.

I think that’s true.

I have a fiend who is the same age as me (43).

Apart form one 4 year relationship in his late 20s/early 30s he’s been single.

He’s not poorly educated, he went to university but he got stuck in a low ish paid job he hates but he makes no moves to progress, has never grown out of computer games, drinks everyday, doesn’t take care of the way he looks, and is all about fart jokes, doesn’t have many friends, no hobbies outside his computer, talking about wanking and watching porn - nothing a woman would find all that attractive.

He had a six month fling with anther old school friend a few years ago when they reconnected in facebook. She soon grew tired of him. He never wanted to go out, his idea of showing her a good time was taking her to his dads house on a friday night and drinking himself into oblivion watching TV as he can’t afford/doesn’t want to go out to places. She said it was like dating the 14 year old version of him she remembered - he was still the same.

He regularly gets angry that he’s still single, but doesn’t listen when people tell him that may talking about farts, wanking and porn on twitter all evening probably isn't the way to get a partner.

God, how disgusting. I think it's true there are many men like this, but there are also loads of women who who are isolated, boring and bored. They don't watch video games and porn, but they maybe watch soaps and Love Island, drink wine on their own, and are going quietly mad. I know two people like this. Their kids are adults and don't need them anymore, they didn't have fulfilling jobs and are now on their own with little money and are depressed and isolated. It's easy to sneer at other people who end up like this but I find it very sad. Isolation and depression, poor social skills and lack of money are common to both sexes and it would be helpful to have some compassion. Life deals different cards to people and sometimes is isn't the person's fault.

I am in a relationship for over twenty years. I am over 50 now and so is he. We live apart in our separate houses like Camilla and Charlie do.

I have been asked so often why we haven't either moved in together or tied the knot. I ignore and cite the above Royalty who seem to do it fine (I know they are married though).

The freedom it brings to both of us is immense. Neither of us has children, we are each financially secure and not tied financially so there is no need to marry. Marriage is like strangulation to me with due respect to those who don't think the same way.

So I have the best of both worlds. I was lucky to find a man who thinks similarly though.

I could never have anyone living with me, unless I had two sitting rooms, two kitchens, and two bathrooms. I just have one of each ha ha.

There was a thread on MN a while ago about young guys who still live at home and do nothing all day except play video games
even they are leaching off their parents, although in their defense housing can be unaffordable if you are single