Page 5 | "I don't do relationships"

JoonT · 2023-01-19T15:04:45+00:00

Over Christmas, I went to a party and got talking to a girl in her early 20s. I asked if her partner was there, and she replied "I don't do relationships." She went on to explain that she had no intention of ^ever^ being in a relationship or having kids. She was completely focused on her career and didn't want all the 'hassle' (her word). I also have a cousin who is 38 and lives alone. She has never had a relationship either (she's one of the happiest people I know!). Do you think it is becoming more common? I mean for people to choose not to "do relationships" at all? I'm not judging such people. I'm just curious. My own feeling is that it ^is ^more common. And I suspect it's because of several things. First of all, people live longer, and (if they take care of themselves) do so in better health. That looks set to continue. Pretty soon we may ever have life extension drugs that slow the ageing of the body. So they don't need a partner to care for them as they age. Second, women now have careers. They also have better access to training and education, which enables them to pursue those careers. Finally, lots of women now choose not to have kids. In the past, women (and men) often put up with hellish marriages for the sake of the children. Something else I've noticed is that young people increasingly choose not to drink alcohol. I wonder if the two are related?

onyttig · 22/01/2023 17:37

I’m another one in my 40s and I’ve come to the conclusion that I simply do not do relationships any longer. I do not want to.

The pool of available men really, really are not worth the effort. Additionally, given that I now give precisely no fucks about whether people perceive me as a grumpy, difficult, angry woman, I’m pretty sure that I’m entirely unsuited for a relationship. The venn diagram of men whose attitudes, behaviour and expectations don’t set off my peri-menopausal/accusation of experience ‘fuck that’ response (a very small circle) and men who would be interested in a relationship with a ‘difficult’ woman with my middle-aged attitude to life (probably a small circle too) is small enough you’d need a microscope.

If younger women are coming to a similar realisation without subjecting themselves to decades of shite to get there… more power to them.

FellPuck · 22/01/2023 17:56

TedMullins · 22/01/2023 14:23

really agree with all of this. I am actually seeing someone, we’ve been together a year but before that I’d been happily single for about three years and wasn’t looking at all. Then he popped up and ruined my singledom!

I told him right from the start that I would always prioritise myself as an individual first. I expected us both to continue living as independent, autonomous people that choose to spend time with each other because it’s mutually nice for both of us. I won’t move in with him. I consider my friends as important in my life as him. I don’t see the relationship as an entity that must be elevated above everything else in life and cause me to change who I am and how I live - my independence comes first. It’s the most successful relationship I’ve ever had!

Like I said before we met I was happily single and content with the idea of being so indefinitely, maybe forever. Marriage sounds like incarceration to me. Why would I want to legally tie everything that’s mine with someone else? If we break up - because I don’t believe in the concept of ‘forever’ I’ll be happy single again.

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Your relationship sounds ideal! I hope it continues to give you both what you want, for as long as it lasts :)

FellPuck · 22/01/2023 18:09

JoonT · 22/01/2023 15:21

A certain type of man is now being left behind: the low-skilled, poorly educated, 'macho' type who (as you say) were never taught to express emotion. And I suspect it's this sort of man who drives up the male suicide rate. Women will reach out, which would explain why, though women are twice as likely to suffer depression, they are less likely to kill themselves. It's a striking statistic.

There's nothing wrong with being single or childless. Many very happy people live such a life. But to be single and childless and isolated isn't healthy. And that's the situation a lot of men now find themselves in. I have noticed this a lot. I can think of several young men who dropped out of school, never read anything, have poor social skills, struggle to hold a conversation, seem uninterested in anything, etc. To be brutally honest, they're boring. Whereas I can think of few female equivalents. Most young women I know seem much more focused and ambitious. They often have degrees, or fulfilling careers, or lots of friends. And they just seem to enjoy life more. They travel, get excited about stuff, etc. They're not anti-romance or anti-relationships, but they won't put up with the crap their grandmothers put up with.

Until very recently, that kind of man – dull, uneducated, miserable, anti-social, etc – would have had a wife to rely on. She'd have moaned constantly about how dull he is, how he never wants to do anything, etc, but she'd have accepted it. She'd have cooked his dinner, washed his socks, kept him company. My dad was a bit like that. He had no friends, and sort of clung to my mother, literally sulking when she went out for an evening. Now that divorce is easier, and it's more acceptable to remain single, such men are finding it harder to cope. Nobody wants them. The only things left are weed, alcohol and video games. There was a thread on MN a while ago about young guys who still live at home and do nothing all day except play video games. That's the sort of guy I'm thinking of. Young women seem to be leaving them behind.

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I think you're absolutely spot-on about this - the type of man you describe just hasn't been able to keep up with the changing times, and is now suffering.

Lampan · 22/01/2023 22:41

@FellPuck and @TedMullins Amen! I agree with everything you have both said. I’m not actively looking for a relationship but if someone came on the scene I’d have to think long and hard about giving up my single life.

@JoonT I agree about this type of man you describe, but I think it will be a while before they’re fully phased out of the dating pool. You only have to read threads on here by women with awful-sounding partners, I think there will always be women who lack the confidence to go after anyone better than these losers. Which I guess is a good reason to try and enforce the idea that relationships aren’t compulsory and there’s nothing at all wrong with being single.

Lucylock · 23/01/2023 05:07

I wonder also how much porn has to do with young women's decisions around relationships. My DD is 17, almost 18 and is yet to have a relationship , or even kiss someone (to my knowledge). Young men's expectations of sex are rooted in porn.. it's little wonder that my DD may think 'no thanks' at the thought of choking etc which is so normalised now.

Lucylock · 23/01/2023 05:13

Im surprised at the level of sexism by boys towards girls in our schools. It's on endemic levels , but little wonder when you have porn and the likes of Tate telling you what women should be. I suspect there will be more women in the future who opt out of relationships as a result..

MonsoonMadness · 23/01/2023 05:46

Lucylock · 23/01/2023 05:07

I wonder also how much porn has to do with young women's decisions around relationships. My DD is 17, almost 18 and is yet to have a relationship , or even kiss someone (to my knowledge). Young men's expectations of sex are rooted in porn.. it's little wonder that my DD may think 'no thanks' at the thought of choking etc which is so normalised now.

I think that’s perhaps why so many women are bi now.

SpaceMonitor · 23/01/2023 06:08

I would be interested to know how all of these single people will ever afford to live comfortably. The cost of living surely makes it almost impossible for a single person to buy a home and cover all of the bills alone.

theycallmejane · 23/01/2023 07:49

SpaceMonitor · 23/01/2023 06:08

I would be interested to know how all of these single people will ever afford to live comfortably. The cost of living surely makes it almost impossible for a single person to buy a home and cover all of the bills alone.

It's cheaper on my own.

My ex earned less than me, so I paid more. He also spent a significant proportion of our joint income on booze. Given he cheated on me, indirectly at least, he must have spent my money on her too.

After we broke up, I was able to buy my own home. Would not have been able to before. He was dragging me down in every way, including financially.

I'm sure it would be cheaper for a single man to have a relationship with me and live with me, but I don't want to support one. I'm not a kid anymore, and if he isn't my equal career-wise, why should I subsidise his life choices?

I've had to fight sexism, racism, ableism and ageism in the workplace - it's bloody tough being a woman. Any man will have had an easier time than me, so if he's not at least my equal career-wise, no sympathy. Plus, given the majority of men date younger, he'll have had more years than me to get ahead.

A key reason why I'll stay single. Men my age are after a meal ticket, and it gives me the ick. I've put up with too much for too long, and I'm not prepared to go through it again. I don't want to pay for a man, I don't want to be his mother, and I don't want to be his living sex doll. I'm just not prepared to put up with an unfulfilling relationship that makes my life worse.

The problem with doing well for yourself is that you don't need anyone, and if you don't need anyone, a man has to have something to offer. He has to be emotionally available, he has to be loyal, he has to not be selfish in bed, and he has to be interesting. Too much to ask...

sammylady37 · 23/01/2023 07:51

I’m in my mid-40s and have been single since my early 20s. I am resolutely single, and child-free and will stay that way. I have a wonderful life, with a well-paid steady job, a lovely home that will be mortgage-free in about 2 years, a great circle of friends and some very close family. A few gentlemen callers satisfy my sexual needs. I love my lifestyle and there is nothing missing from it. A relationship would only bring complexity and compromise and I’m not interested in either of those, why would I be?

I despair at some of the relationships I observe and some I read about on here, it saddens me how much shit some women are prepared to endure all for the sake of being in a relationship. A friend of mine is in a very unhappy, abusive marriage, has a shit life, has the resources to leave but won’t as she ‘would be lonely’, yet she constantly says to me that she wishes I would ‘find someone’ 🙄 firstly, I’m not looking for someone and secondly, her marriage is hardly a shining example of success and happiness.

borntobequiet · 23/01/2023 07:55

People have always done this one way or another. Religious orders offered a way out for many women. There’s never much new in human behaviour, though social norms change over time.

TedMullins · 23/01/2023 12:46

SpaceMonitor · 23/01/2023 06:08

I would be interested to know how all of these single people will ever afford to live comfortably. The cost of living surely makes it almost impossible for a single person to buy a home and cover all of the bills alone.

That obviously depends on where you live and what you earn. One person’s situation won’t have any bearing on another’s. I could tell you all about me - that I lived in cheap grotty London house shares til I’d saved 10% deposit, then bought the cheapest, smallest flat I could find in south east London. I was earning 45k at the time which may not go far in London but is above the average UK salary. My outgoings are roughly £1200 inc bills now and I freelance, earning closer to £60k.

none of that information helps anyone earning minimum wage in an area where jobs rarely pay over 25k (although 25k would obviously for further in some regions). Nor would it help someone who won’t countenance living in a one bed flat, which personally I like (less cleaning!).

Since I was a teenager I always just assumed that financially I’d be providing for myself as an adult, my parents are poor and it just never occurred to me that a relationship or marriage would a) happen for me or b) that I’d rely financially on anyone else. I didn’t pursue a very highly paid career at first so I just accepted that house shares was all I could afford, until I was a bit older and started thinking more about money and how to get a better paid job. I made a bit of a career side step (no retraining required) to something better paid and developed from there, building my own portfolio, teaching myself things I needed to know to increase my earning capability. I’ve always approached my life with a me first mentality, pursuing opportunities I want and focusing on how to get the things I don’t have. So that’s how I afford it but the answer will be vastly different from a woman, say, in her 50s with children and is divorced.

TedMullins · 23/01/2023 12:49

FellPuck · 22/01/2023 17:56

Your relationship sounds ideal! I hope it continues to give you both what you want, for as long as it lasts :)

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Thank you! Wish there was a like button on here. I hope you continue to have a wonderful and free single life!

Soothsayer1 · 23/01/2023 13:13

SpaceMonitor · 23/01/2023 06:08

I would be interested to know how all of these single people will ever afford to live comfortably. The cost of living surely makes it almost impossible for a single person to buy a home and cover all of the bills alone.

You might think so but men rarely seem willing or able to treat a woman as an equal partner, they (consciously or unconsciously) work to make sure that they get the lion's share of any benefits produced by the relationship.
I think the big difference is that women now have access to well-paid jobs, it's more difficult for men to get in a position where they have enough leverage to dominate women

AnchovyInCowlNeck · 23/01/2023 13:23

TedMullins · 23/01/2023 12:46

That obviously depends on where you live and what you earn. One person’s situation won’t have any bearing on another’s. I could tell you all about me - that I lived in cheap grotty London house shares til I’d saved 10% deposit, then bought the cheapest, smallest flat I could find in south east London. I was earning 45k at the time which may not go far in London but is above the average UK salary. My outgoings are roughly £1200 inc bills now and I freelance, earning closer to £60k.

none of that information helps anyone earning minimum wage in an area where jobs rarely pay over 25k (although 25k would obviously for further in some regions). Nor would it help someone who won’t countenance living in a one bed flat, which personally I like (less cleaning!).

Since I was a teenager I always just assumed that financially I’d be providing for myself as an adult, my parents are poor and it just never occurred to me that a relationship or marriage would a) happen for me or b) that I’d rely financially on anyone else. I didn’t pursue a very highly paid career at first so I just accepted that house shares was all I could afford, until I was a bit older and started thinking more about money and how to get a better paid job. I made a bit of a career side step (no retraining required) to something better paid and developed from there, building my own portfolio, teaching myself things I needed to know to increase my earning capability. I’ve always approached my life with a me first mentality, pursuing opportunities I want and focusing on how to get the things I don’t have. So that’s how I afford it but the answer will be vastly different from a woman, say, in her 50s with children and is divorced.

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Yes I did similar to you. Scrimped and saved in London while earning around £35K. This meant barely going out for 3 years. Got deposit together and bought small, cheap flat on coast. Was in a lengthy LD relationship while saving, but he didn't have any life skills and returned to live with his mum. So I go it alone... always have really. It's imperfect but it's my preferred set of problems.

Soothsayer1 · 23/01/2023 13:30

Well done @AnchovyInCowlNeck 😁
Personally I quite enjoy being frugal as long as I'm in control of my own money, doncha feel a bit sorry for that guy's mum though .....being lumbered with him?😶

AnchovyInCowlNeck · 23/01/2023 13:39

Yeah totally I feel sorry for her. She could be enjoying her retirement. He is likely sponging off her too. I'm NC with him cos he pulls on my heartstrings too much.

DesertIslandCondiment · 23/01/2023 13:51

Lucylock · 23/01/2023 05:07

I wonder also how much porn has to do with young women's decisions around relationships. My DD is 17, almost 18 and is yet to have a relationship , or even kiss someone (to my knowledge). Young men's expectations of sex are rooted in porn.. it's little wonder that my DD may think 'no thanks' at the thought of choking etc which is so normalised now.

I've had a chat with my DS about this. Not too graphic but I think he realises that this isn't the norm.

butterfliedtwo · 23/01/2023 14:16

Don't do them either. I tried when young, but I like doing what I want too much to compromise in order to make a relationship work.

Soothsayer1 · 23/01/2023 17:47

butterfliedtwo · 23/01/2023 14:16

Don't do them either. I tried when young, but I like doing what I want too much to compromise in order to make a relationship work.

so are most men but it doesnt stop them getting into relationships!
Things are changing, women can be the 'man' now too, live life on our own terms etc, I do think most of it is down to being able to earn your own money, that's why men have tried so hard to keep women out of education and prestigious jobs etc

Jifmicroliquid · 23/01/2023 17:58

I don’t do relationships, simply because I get nothing from them. I don’t feel attracted to other people, nor feel the need to have a connection with someone. I have no interest in sex either. Had plenty of sexual partners and always waited for it to feel different but it never happened. It was just something I did, not particularly something I enjoyed. A few years ago I came to the conclusion that I just don’t feel the way other people do. I’m guessing I might be asexual or something, though I don’t feel I need a label.
I have plenty of friends, so feel connection with people that way, and I’m not lonely.

ArmyofMunn · 23/01/2023 19:06

My DD16 announced she was gay last year. My very traditional mum said on hearing the news "Well at least she won't marry an arsehole".

Lucylock · 23/01/2023 19:08

😁

Itslookinggood · 23/01/2023 20:18

Thanks for this thread op. Finding it really heartening.

I am 52. Left abusive marriage 3 yrs ago. Seem to live in a place where I am surrounded by couples. Feel like the odd one out.

But....my experience of men has been crap, to say the least (abusive father included). I have two fab teenagers, a job I adore, a nice (if expensive) house and generally lids to love about life.

So I don't feel, for me, that I need another relationship. But when I'm yet again on my own at local gathering I feel like the odd one out. And that makes me feel lonely - whereas, when I'm on my own, or with friends or the kids, I feel fine.

Not sure what I'm saying really. Just I'm glad it's becoming more socially acceptable. Glad I'm ahead of my time

LexMitior · 23/01/2023 20:28

It's an interesting one. I would echo a lot of what people have said. Relationships should be fun and enhance your life, but the end game (at least if you are straight) seems to be house, coupledom, kids.

But when I tried this I absolutely hated it. I liked having a boyfriend and a flat, but the effort to make it the central thing with children was awful. I felt trapped.

I am divorced now and have the house and the job and the kids and... it's a lot better. It's simpler.

You can have relationships outside the home, but this endgame of move in, I don't like that really.