"I don't do relationships"

[JoonT]

Over Christmas, I went to a party and got talking to a girl in her early 20s. I asked if her partner was there, and she replied "I don't do relationships." She went on to explain that she had no intention of ever being in a relationship or having kids. She was completely focused on her career and didn't want all the 'hassle' (her word). I also have a cousin who is 38 and lives alone. She has never had a relationship either (she's one of the happiest people I know!). Do you think it is becoming more common? I mean for people to choose not to "do relationships" at all? I'm not judging such people. I'm just curious.

My own feeling is that it is more common. And I suspect it's because of several things. First of all, people live longer, and (if they take care of themselves) do so in better health. That looks set to continue. Pretty soon we may ever have life extension drugs that slow the ageing of the body. So they don't need a partner to care for them as they age. Second, women now have careers. They also have better access to training and education, which enables them to pursue those careers. Finally, lots of women now choose not to have kids. In the past, women (and men) often put up with hellish marriages for the sake of the children.

Something else I've noticed is that young people increasingly choose not to drink alcohol. I wonder if the two are related?

My eldest dd is 32 and has had boyfriends in the past but has no intention of marrying or having children and in fact isn't interested in a relationship at all. She is not particularly career driven, she just can't be arsed getting back on the dating scene. More power to her elbow I say.

It was a few years ago I remember reading that one in five people live alone. Not all of them are widows/widowers, old age or people who have divorced.

I hope one thing that could come out of a greater acceptance of people being single is that some will not stay in bad or abusive relationships. And that bad people (majority probably men) remain single.

I don't do relationships either, never have. It's just more acceptable to admit that these days, which is good. More people are aware that it's OK to not be interested in relationships and/or sex.

Another very happy single here, I have never wanted to live in a relationship - I tried it a few times when I was younger, because it was seen as the normal route, all that happened was a hurt some decent men.

I first heard the word "asexual" on the BBC when I was in my 30s, and immediately recognised myself - and an old school friend rang up the same night, very excited, having seen the same programme and recognised me in it too. Up to that point I had wondered if I was the only one in the world who didn't want to be part of a couple

In my 50s now, never wavered from being happily single. Men still interested, still turning them down - actually love having men in my life but only platonically. I do feel that you get hassle when you are young and beautiful, then there is a bit of a lull late 30s,/ 40s. but once you hit 50 you are suddenly seen as desirable again, as divorced men look around for someone to bolster their ego.

I am finding male attention pretty persistent now, more so than earlier - its like some men cant believe a single woman in her 50s isn't desperate, and means it when she turns them down

Thanks for the replies. Very interesting. When I look back, both my sets of grandparents were in hellish marriages. And in both cases it was 100% down to one person (my grandmother on my dad's side, and my grandfather on my mum's). I loved my maternal grandfather, but he was a difficult, damaged man. My grandmother's final years were so unhappy – trapped in a bungalow, having to go to bed early, constantly yelled at, etc. She was a real bohemian, and would have been a thousand times happier in a flat in town with a few friends coming round to talk books and art. She was on anti-depressants, sleeping pills (which she took during the day), tranquilizers, you name it. I swear they caused the stroke that killed her. Both my paternal grandfather and maternal grandmother ruined their lives by marrying (and staying with) the wrong person.

Have you seen the state of men lately? They all want some sort of nurse maid who'll shag them and pay for everything. Neither do they want something that lasts more than 5-10 years and that's long enough to leave women becoming single parents. You see that here all the time, husband wanting a divorce after 10 years of marriage etc.

I know someone who's 59 and is deliberately looking for women in their late 20s/early 30s so that they can look after him when he's elderly, like proper elderly.

So I'm not surprised women don't want relationships any more.

I think you are right and there are two big factors

one is that older women are slowly becoming more vocal about wishing they had never had children (caveated of course by the fact they love the ones they have) but that if they had their time again, they are not sure they would have children. Previously this was ultra taboo. So younger women are hearing older women talk about the damage to their bodies, the grunt work involving in raising a family often unassisted even if they have a partner, the cost financial and emotional and so on. This means that whereas previously it was taken as read that having children was a life goal for all women and motherhood a joyous elysium, it is not. & if you don't want children and don't need a man for financial support, why would you bother.

the second is that the vast majority of young girls have careers, education and financial independence open to them from the start of their school career. So there is no "need" to pair up for financial reasons as there was previously.

Put these two things together and in a lot of cases, why would you bother to have a relationship? Sex is a lot of fun in the early stages of new relationship energy but that wears off over time. If that's your thing, in a lot of ways it's better to just have new experiences. Or equally if you don't care about sex, then again no reason.

I’m 31, and I have just come out of a six year relationship, and will probably not be in another one anytime soon, they’re so draining and require a lot of effort and time, that I feel there isn’t much of anymore, with us women concentrating on careers. I have never wanted children, I enjoy my freedom and sleep too much. I don’t see this as selfish, and have never been judged for not wanting children, I certainly feel like this has become more acceptable.

I feel that I can give myself what I want, without a partner, I rarely feel lonely and enjoy my own company, living alone I can choose when I want to be social and sometimes I find it absolutely draining to socialise. I find animals are enough to fill the void of human company and they don’t argue back!! 😂

Yes I think it is and it should be. Relationships and monogamy etc aren't for everybody. She's also only 20 so she may change her mind over time. Or may not. Either way is fine.

Actually, the only statistic I (vaguely) heard recently was that in the UK, most dating app users are men, so there is maybe a trajectory of more women opting to stay single.

for quite some years now, it's been said that statistically, single women are happier. I got called "commitment phobe" which annoyed me. It's taking a positive choice and assuming it's actually a negative one, born out of fear.

Good points. I agree. I would add life expectancy as well. People who take care of themselves can now expect to live into their 80s and even 90s. And pretty soon there will be drugs that slow the ageing process down (so-called senolytics). If we start living to 120 or 130, who is going to marry at 25? As medical science progresses, we become less vulnerable, and so less dependent on our partner.

Neither do I :)

The final straw was briefly dating a long term ''friend'' who turned abusive the moment we started seeing each other.

I want nothing more to do with men.

Even before that, I never had any interest whatsoever in living with someone and doing the traditional marriage/kids things. Domesticity is simply not for me.

I was still dating though, on and off but after a few of years of online dating coming across one loser/misogynist/abuser after another and men who don't seem to know their way around a woman's body, I am very happy to be on my own and by choice.

I think more people are open about the fact that they are not interested in just following the usual paths in life.

Yes I think men are more likely to use dating apps looking for sex.

Whereas a lot of women can take or leave the sex (and many the relationship too).

Now, I’m 59, and l don’t know anyone who’s regretted having children.

I had a career in the 80’s. I was on a packet with a car by 26. More than my son was earning in a mw job 30 years later.

l think it’s harder for women to be independent these days as wages are so shit.

I'm too old to even think of another relationship, this one has lasted and when one of us departs I think whichever is left will settle down as gran or grandad and that's enough of a relationship for either of us.

Both dds are settled in what appears to be happy marriages. Several of their friends (both male and female) are unattached and not interested in ltr. It's probably easier for the girls as casual sex is readily available, much more so than for the lads.

My ds is 19 and is in a ltr and is planning marriage and kids in his mid twenties

After a lifetime of going from one romantic/sexual relationship to another, believing 100% that I could not possibly be without a man, I have been happily unattached for the past 6 years.

Nobody is more surprised than me, to find that I now feel happier, more secure, safer, less worried and less anxious, to be without a boyfriend.

Looking back, they were all a helluva lot of hard work. Trying to figure them out, spending hours analysing their words and actions with my girlfriends, trying to mould them into decent human beings, the arguments, the breakups and reconciliations, the compromises and all the other things women do to make a relationship work on every level. I feel so free now that I don't have all that nonsense to deal with. What a bloody waste of time it all was because at the end of it I broke up with each and every one of them!

I would never, ever want to be in another relationship with a man. Platonic friends, yes, whom I would not hesitate to ditch if they displeased me. As for sex, there are a massive array of toys for sale these days which do the job efficiently and don't fart or snore afterwards. They also don't make demands when you are not in the mood. And when you decide you never want to have sex again, you can just bin them instead of having that awkward convo that will probably end in a messy divorce.

I think it is more common these days and thankfully socially acceptable to be single. I've 3 friends who are 40, who are successful career wise, lots of money to socialise, travel etc. they haven't had a relationship since we were late teens/ early 20's. When we go out/ go on holiday they show zero interest in finding a partner/ hooking up (whatever). For them I do think they are really happy with their lives (no burning desire to be a mother etc or change things) but I also think it's been so long since they were in a relationship that they don't have the confidence/ know how to do it.

I've said this too, maybe a FWB but that would be the extent of it.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow
Now, I’m 59, and l don’t know anyone who’s regretted having children.

What you mean is you don't know anyone who has told you they regretted having children to your face. That is my point. It is a fairly taboo subject.

& most women who express these views tend to say (in effect) I don't regret these children I have because I love them but if I had my life again, I wouldn't have children because ....etc. That said, you do sometimes now see media articles where women say they regret it and don't couch it in those terms which I always think must be terrible for their children

But my point is that your generation not only wouldn't say it - but when you were growing up at school and in formative years wouldn't have had access to the internet where these things are spoken of more openly and are more accessible.

Sometimes of course today it's said under cover of anonymity. There are loads of threads here for example on this very subject plus accounts of the downsides of relationships from hundreds of people.

The Internet only really became mainstream from the late 1990s onwards. Young women who grew up only knowing the internet have access to much more honest and direct views than anyone over the age of say 45 (arbitrary number but roughly a person who wouldn't have had the internet at school. (ie. born 1978 so would have turned 16 in 1994).

Dd aged 17 has no interest in dating or drinking. By her age I had one serious relationship and been on a number of 'dates'. I spent alot of time in pubs , whereas DD is mostly online. Maybe that's something to do with it.

It's interesting. I guess it's all part of society becoming more accepting if differences.

Young women who grew up only knowing the internet have access to much more honest and direct views than anyone over the age of say 45 (arbitrary number but roughly a person who wouldn't have had the internet at school.
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This comment seems obvious but it has blown my mind a bit! So true. I mean they've also been exposed to a never ending torrent of fake news and there's the whole echo chamber issue but it's given me food for thought.
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But my point is that your generation not only wouldn't say it - but when you were growing up at school and in formative years wouldn't have had access to the internet where these things are spoken of more openly and are more accessible

Of course they said it. All the time. I started work late 80’s. Women were making huge strides in the workplace. Why would they throw it away for children? I didn’t want any then. Don’t assume that previous generations thought any differently even though we didn’t have the internet. We had Cosmopiltan instead. No one had relationships or babies in that magazine, it was about being independent and career driven. Most of my friends had careers and didn’t have babies until mid/late 30’s, and believe me, no one pressured them.

We were totally independent, and were determined not to get saddled with children or be housewives. The 80’s was about work work work, and l would say it was the first generation where women were actually making these choices.

So, myself and my friends love our children. No one regrets them. No one, And it’s nothing to do with ‘age’ or the ‘internet’

And fifty or sixty years ago a man like that would have had no problem finding such a woman. The stigma around being single and childless lingered well into the 1980s, so women would settle for awful men, or put up with disgusting behaviour, because anything was better than being alone. Men sort of knew that. I remember my great aunt, whose husband hit her, told her what time to be home, held all the money, etc, telling me that her own mother used to say "well, at least you've got a man," whenever she complained! To be a single woman in your 30s or 40s was to be a failure. In fact, you were almost an outcast.

The stigma around being single and childless lingered well into the 1980s

Did it? I was young in the 80’s. I never knew about this? There was no stigma.