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Sex not gender. Sex not gender. Sex not gender.

141 replies

LindorDoubleChoc · 17/01/2023 20:04

Please!

OP posts:
pikkumyy77 · 19/12/2023 19:31

Because the people posting on these threads are so absurd they deserve to be made fun of. Gender is a perfectly useful word for an interesting issue in science and academia. While humans are sexually dimorphic the content of the social category “male” or “female” is extremely malleable and socially constructed. Lots of time, money, and political power goes in to making sure little humans fit into their assigned categories. Some societies keep the two sexes widely separate as to gender expression, others tend more towards permitting the individual wide choice in gender expression.

Nowadays some humans want more respect and safety for their personal lives as they choose to live them. I see no harm in it since it neither picks my pocket nor busts my nose. If Samantha wants to live life as Sam, or vice versa, or even non binary what harm is done to me? None. I’m just a 63 year old straight, married, mother of two gay women. I posted here as a reminder that in the world outside of mumsnet’s feminist boards most people find this level of teeth gnashing snd bitching about other people’s private lives and pronoun choices just bizarrely meanspirited and weird.

Peskysquirrel · 19/12/2023 19:43

Nope.
Male and female are biological categories not social.
They are immutable not malleable.
Masculine and feminine are social categories, malleable and socially constructed.
You seem a little confused.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/12/2023 19:49

Because the people posting on these threads are so absurd they deserve to be made fun of.

If you say so. It doesn't mean we can't have a discussion, laugh it up 🤷‍♀️

MrsTerryPratchett · 19/12/2023 20:27

Nowadays some humans want more respect and safety for their personal lives as they choose to live them. I see no harm in it since it neither picks my pocket nor busts my nose. If Samantha wants to live life as Sam, or vice versa, or even non binary what harm is done to me? None. I’m just a 63 year old straight, married, mother of two gay women. I posted here as a reminder that in the world outside of mumsnet’s feminist boards most people find this level of teeth gnashing snd bitching about other people’s private lives and pronoun choices just bizarrely meanspirited and weird.

You should probably spend a bit more time out here feminist boards. Most women don't care if someone wears a dress or trousers. The concern is women's sports, prisons, refuges, housing, groups and spaces. Do you want your gay daughters to be able to refuse penises without being told they're bigots?

aurynne · 19/12/2023 21:29

Kpo58 · 19/12/2023 15:16

I'm assuming because in the very rare case of intersex babies, the sex isn't always 100% obvious so a sex is assigned. Maybe they later do DNA testing and sometimes have to correct it?

Midwife here.

No. Sex is never "assigned". We look. If there is a penis, we tick "male". If there is a vagina, we tick "female". If there is any doubt, we tick "intersex" or "indeterminate" (both options available in newborn forms) and refer to the paediatrician/neonatologist immediately, because any indeterminate/intersex condition is a medical anomaly which also often comes accompanied by other abnormalities as a syndrome, and babies need to be seen asap.

No one "assigns" sex at birth, the same way we don't "assign" number of fingers and toes.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 20/12/2023 10:36

aurynne
I can imagine your eyes must hurt at times with the amount of rolling they do regards this subject area Grin

tryingforbaba · 31/12/2023 13:19

WalkthisWayUK · 18/01/2023 00:10

I think the most progressive thing we could do as a society is get rid of gender!

We are born male or female. We can express ourselves however we want, a woman can love rugby, wear trousers, a man can wear skirts and lipstick. Whatever! We are still born male or female and ANY attempt to ‘name’ an identity such as trans, non binary or whatever is regressive in that in attempts to box in expressions of sex and put them all into neat little boxes with pronouns on.

Gender can go take a hike!

This this this this. Thanks- you just helped me verbalise what I think (but have been unable to explain myself until I just read your comment)

Alalalalalongalalalalalonglonglilong · 31/12/2023 14:20

Cif not Jif Cif not Jif Cif not Jif
snickers not Marathon Snickers not Marathon Snickers not Marathon

It takes a long time to change the commonly used meaning of a word. Why get so upset about it? So what if someone gets it wrong.

HRTQueen · 31/12/2023 14:41

Being assigned a gender at birth

why is this terminology now used

you are not assigned you are a male or female

(apart from a very few)

HoneyButterPopcorn · 31/12/2023 15:28

I can’t believe grown ass adults pretend that ‘assign’ is a thing. Or gender for that matter.

PencilsInSpace · 31/12/2023 20:16

Alalalalalongalalalalalonglonglilong · 31/12/2023 14:20

Cif not Jif Cif not Jif Cif not Jif
snickers not Marathon Snickers not Marathon Snickers not Marathon

It takes a long time to change the commonly used meaning of a word. Why get so upset about it? So what if someone gets it wrong.

Because sex is a protected characteristic in the Equality Act 2010 and the rights of women and girls depend on it.

Because 'gender', which is defined nowhere in law, has too many different meanings, some of them heavily contested, and the insistence on gender in place of sex is what has eroded our rights.

Sex is the Jif and the Marathon in your analogies by the way, gender is the Cif and the Snickers. Gender is the johnny-come-lately word that arrives with a ton of baggage and a dodgy agenda. This is not natural language evolution this is forced change (with menaces).

When it suits the agenda, gender is just a polite euphemism for sex.

When it suits the agenda, gender is a mysterious internal subjective quality which, it is claimed, everyone has and which is completely different from sex.

The confusing fudge that results from mixing up these different meanings is why men have succeeded in claiming to be women and claiming protection under the equality act as if they were women.

To confuse matters further, gender also has another meaning - sex roles / sex role stereotypes / sex role indoctrination. All the stuff we do to children, and to each other as adults to enforce conformity of masculine and feminine behaviour. All the stuff feminists have been battling against since forever.

To confuse matters even further, a lot of men who claim they have a 'gender identity' in the 'mysterious internal subjective quality' sense of the word, are actually just getting off sexually on the humiliation of pretending to be a woman because they understand the 'sex role' meaning of gender very well indeed.

Obviously this is a problem for women when these men demand to be treated as women under the law, because of their 'gender'.

Gender can get in the bin.

EmpressaurusOfCats · 31/12/2023 21:27

Brilliant post, Pencils.

Girlontherailreplacementbusservice · 31/12/2023 21:45

CIF always means Jif the problem is whether gender means sex depends on circumstances and speaker. Sometimes they are synonymous, sometimes they aren't. The ambiguity causes confusion and that confusion is exploited to push the agenda of a particular group who love to tell us that sex and gender are different things went it suits them then swap gender for sex to alter the meaning of the law.

Leafstamp · 01/01/2024 06:47

That is an excellent post @PencilsInSpace, also excellently expanded on by @Girlontherailreplacementbusservice

This MN board is so valuable.

Leafstamp · 01/01/2024 06:48

Oh, I see this is in chat, not Feminism. Even better! I hope lots more people read and understand the problems with the transgender movement.

comfyoldcardi · 01/01/2024 12:04

Leafstamp · 01/01/2024 06:48

Oh, I see this is in chat, not Feminism. Even better! I hope lots more people read and understand the problems with the transgender movement.

Sshhh! It will get moved when the usual reporters wake up.

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