Sex not gender. Sex not gender. Sex not gender.

[LindorDoubleChoc]

Please!

I lived throught the AIDS crisis, section 28. We are moving back to those days again.

No, we aren't. Hyperbole.

It's actually about language, definitions and sex.
My daughter will always be a she. All females will always be a she. Cis is not a thing.
Nonsense is when meaning of words gets messed up and no longer mean what they mean. It becomes nonsensical. I don't have to respect anyone who hasn't earned it, but I will always be civil and polite. This does not extend to pretending I or you have the power to change the meaning of words. This doesn't mean I think people identifying as trans aren't human BTW. All gc people still see people as human. Neither do I hate them as a group. Its just that you can't change your sex. I do love to see people challenging gender norms. I really hate to see people reinforcing gender norms.

Oh who cares! We all know what people mean when they ask us to guess the gender from a scan photo.

Cis is only used to separate trans and non trans people. Also, it ensure during discourse online that if a descriptor is missed whether it be trans or cis, the flow of the argument is still clear and people don't get confused who is being refered to.
I also think it is disrespectful not to consider what to call someone.
No-one is saying trans people can change their sex...just their gender. They/we wish to be treated as our chosen gender, including pronouns.

Hi @transchloe so you’re saying that trans people change their gender. Are they not born with that gender then? Please can you explain what makes someone change their gender? And also what changing your gender consists of?

Me three. Language matters

Women are already very uncomfortable having biological men who say they are women placed in their wards. Women in prison being sexually assaulted by convicted rapists who say they are women are terrified, never mind uncomfortable.
Men in prison who say they are women are 8 times more likely to be convicted sex offenders than the men in the male estate. Those are the prison service own figures.

Why oh why do some people, forms etc say "assigned at birth". What does the midwife do - toss a coin to decide? Sex is observed at birth, it isn't a random decision.

Then you won't mind if we ask you to respect single sex spaces, then, whatever gender you feel like today.

But that's the thing, if the trans descriptor is missed the flow is no longer clear. When i talk about women, i mean women. When you talk about women, sometimes you mean men. And that doesn't make sense. Cis is not needed because the term women covers it. Transwomen however, means men. I personally think it's disrespectful to mess with language and call people something they are not .
And for the record, a huge proportion of TRAs are precisely saying they CAN change sex. Hence gc people having to fight to protect sex protected spaces, groups and language. If I say you can't change sex I get accused of transphobia. And how do you treat someone as their chosen gender but not their chosen sex? 🤔 exclude them from sex protected spaces but congratulate or affirm them in their chosen gender norms? I repeat, i hate it when people reaffirm gender stereotypes.

"Cis" is a made-up word used by gender ideologists

I'm not a cis-woman, I'm a woman. That word and its meaning worked fine 40 years ago, and 70 years ago, and in the Victorian ages - to use your words

No one asked women (or men, for that matter) if they minded being referred to as "cis". The word was just imposed on them

You ask for respect for pronouns. I ask for respect not to be referred to as cis

"It's about respect of the individual" - your words
"I also think it is disrespectful not to consider what to call someone" - your words

I also think sterilising and cutting off the breasts of autistic girls is barbaric. I have 2 autistic prepubescent girls in my family and the stuff they are being taught at school scares me. Any ideology that encourages this is evil IMO.

To be fair, I do agree that there are similarities between now and the days of Section 28. I came out then & you had to think carefully before coming out as lesbian & stating that you were only attracted to your own sex, because a lot of people wouldn't like it.

A lot of lesbian get-togethers were discreet or even underground - again, because a lot of people didn't think it was acceptable.

The main differences I see are that in those days, Stonewall was on our side and now they're a bunch of misogynist homophobes. And I don't believe that even Margaret Thatcher would have suggested that children who didn't conform to sex-role sterotypes should be given drugs & eventual surgery to 'correct' them.

Cis is only used to separate trans and non trans people

No it isn't. As a nonbeliever in your ideology, if that was the case a "trans woman" would be a female person who identifies as a man. Because for me all adult males are men.

I just signed a contract. Printed it out - crossed out gender, wrote ‘sex’, under gender identity wrote ‘don’t have one’. No one died.

For same sex attracted people to love each other requires no other action from any other person. It doesn't require people to deny biological facts. It impacts no one

Tue same cannot be said for a trans individual to live live on every way they wish.

So S28 comparisons are false

This just made me snort tea out of my nose!

Trans women means trans women! The fact you call a trans woman a man show ultimate disrespect.

I do respect women and call women women. I could demand that the trans prefix is never used, but trans people never (or only a very small number) would ask for that.
I only ever use cis as a means of clarity.

I think we need both sex and gender on forms to avoid confusion.

Sex is a biologically irrefutable reality. I don't believe it is possible to change sex, with our current level of scientific advancement. I never fully understood this until I experienced pregnancy, birth and breastfeeding.

Gender is a social construct - I fully accept anyone's right to identify as whatever gender they want. As an autistic woman, I have never felt at home in the prevailing female gender construct.

I'm not sure any woman ever has felt comfortable in the prevailing gender construct. It seems to be devised for the benefit of men (the joys of patriarchy).

And yes to clarity about sex and gender. In the UK it is largely leftist women who are TERFs. Haven't met any right wing Christian ones. I do see parallels with s28 but with the TRAs as the oppressors. We are rapidly heading back to a time when it is unacceptable for lesbians not to have sex with men except that the modern version of corrective rape is 'lady dick' (autocorrect keeps changing that to duck which is a lot funnier).

BTW thanks to trans Chloe for resurrecting this thread, I'm going to be quietly snorting at the idea of a sex cannon all afternoon.

@transchloe
Who the hell are you to tell women that we must accept males into our category? No male has or ever will have the right to tell women that we must accept his definition of the word women. You talk about respect, well bloody well show some. You are being told "no", so listen.

I can’t be a transwomen, Chloe. Never, ever. Why is that, do you think?

As for living through S28 and Aids- so did I. I also remember when girls had short hair and wore jeans and trainers and were often mistaken for boys and no one cared. No one made pink and purple Lego to allow girls to play with it.
I also remember when gay teens weren’t medicated and surgically mutilated to fit in with societal expectations.

And if you need to change your clothes, name or pronouns before you can call yourself a woman, then fuck off out of women’s spaces. They are for women who don’t need lipstick and long hair as evidence of who they are.

Here we go with biology deniers. If you've got a penis, you're a man. If you chop off your penis, you're still a man. I could call myself trans-talk but I'd still be a short-arse. Reality is a bitch at times.

"I only ever use cis as a means of clarity."

I only ever use man or woman as a means of clarity. Right back at ya.

BTW I don't want you to demand the trans prefix is never used. I was using your example of when in conversation the trans descriptor is left out. It muddles things because you are then using women when you mean man. That's not being disrespectful, it's just factually accurate. I'm sorry you find reality so offensive. Genuinely. But its still the reality.