Apologies another dog thread

[Babsexxx]

When in the actual fuck is this going to end?! Absolutely heartbreaking!! What is possessing people to either A. Get dogs they cannot contain?!! B. Get dog breeds totally beyond there control/capacity!

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-woman-20s-killed-horror-28942502?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=mirror_main&fbclid=IwAR0QT61C9BluDRapdjz5AB6ry4dkoKI7Io-WFFe1A055Lrfv4P4XoWCylj8

The thing is those of us who own bigger breeds won’t object to restrictions. I certainly wouldn’t. It’s the utter idiots who own huge dogs with no ability to train, contain or manage them properly who are the ones who won’t follow the rules. There’s almost no enforcement for dog related attacks or offences at the moment.

With regards to the dogs in question, apparently the majority of them ran off or were trying to get away. I would place bets that the those that ran were not involved and it was one instigator. The assumption that it must have been the biggest one is depressing though, despite the fact I don’t believe there’s been a case of a leonberger attack ever so far (other than ‘leonberger type’ which could be anything, ovcharvarka/Anatolian/cross) Leonbergers are gentle and quiet dogs who generally avoid confrontation. If it’s true it’s a sad day for a breed that’s temperament and reliability is of upmost importance.

Totally agree with this, I’d happily agree to restrictions. It’s only those that don’t want to train and do things properly that would object.

apparently some of the confirmed breeds are dachshunds, a Leonberger and a Newfoundland

I can’t imagine any of these breeds turning (the sausage dogs more likely than the giants but they wouldn’t be able to do that level of damage).

An older gentleman near me, known amongst the dog walking community, was knocked down by a friendly,
exuberant younger dog.

The dog meant no harm, the man’s hips was broken.

He hasn’t recovered, and probably never will.

So it’s not silly at all.

The issue with the banned breeds is lack of effective enforcement and also a lack of definition as to what a Pitbull is. I don’t support a ban on all large breeds or working breeds at all, as from my experience owners of larger breeds tend towards knowing what their dog is capable of and thus making sure they are on a leash and properly trained.

I have a young male, unneuterred (as yet, he will be soon) chocolate lab. He is from an extremely fit breeding line and weighs circa 40kg. He is large and lean and has the physical capacity, should he lose control, to do a lot of damage. No matter his ‘gentle, fun’ breed, I am always mindful of this.

He is trained, responds to whistle and clicker commands and responds to over 30 verbal commands.

I have worked hard on his training consistently since we’ve had him (8 weeks) and his recall is reinforced every, single day.

I am responsible dog owner and he is well trained, yet he is still, walked on the lead for a huge proportion of the time, and let off only in specific places.

This to me is the minimum ANY dog owner should be doing to own a dog safely and responsibly, yet I would hazard a guess that only a tiny percentage actually do.

And I have owned rotties, staffies, bulldogs etc and they were all trained to the same degree. They were also rarely off lead.

There is a lot of hugely irresponsible dog ownership in the country now, and something needs to be done. Lockdown has massively exacerbated the problem.

The difficulty is in distinguishing between good owners and bad owners, at the point they acquire a dog, and when they are out and about.

How can I tell if the dog and owners I am going to meet on my walk are in control of their dogs? I can't. Until the moment the dog misbehaves, I've no way of knowing.

If there were no XL dogs generally available- only through licensed breeders/handlers- then I'd know I won't bump into a rogue. That would mean you would need to pay extra to be allowed to get and keep your XL dogs.

The thing is- and I love big breeds, love all dogs- if the bigger ones weren't here, fewer serious injuries and deaths would happen.

I live next door to Akitas which I don't trust- I know one lovely one, and two problematic ones. I've never met a bad staffie.
But GSDs, Rotties, Dobermans ets- they are bigger to handle than the average owner can manage. The Great Danes I know are daft and soft and delightful- but they drag their owners round the park.

Big dogs have to choose to behave. If they choose not to, for some reason, their owner can do naff all about it.

Big dogs have to choose to behave. If they choose not to, for some reason, their owner can do naff all about it

A properly trained dog will very rarely misbehave! Such is the nature between a dog and its trainer. But I see what you mean, most people simply don’t aren’t willing to try, this unable to exert the kind of firm control over a dog that is needed, and this is the current problem.

thus unable

@DunjeeOn it’s horrific if it is true.
I would never use a dog walker nor would I ever walk more than 2 dogs at once. I own three and they behave differently when the third is in the mix, plus it’s harder to keep an eye on all 3.

Giants such as newfs and Leo’s are usually only bred for excellent temperaments. Some people are disregarding this though, churning out puppies left right and centre and it’s ruining good breeds. In Leo’s, the majority of breeders work very hard to protect the breed from puppy farmers and the like but it still happens. Like I say, I’ve never ever heard of a leonberger attack but any dog can react badly in the wrong circumstances I suppose.

With regards to bullies, I do think tighter restrictions should be in place…some of them are downright scary but I think the same restrictions should be in place for all dogs not just a size thing.

This ^^

i read in the paper a quote from a woman walking a border collie near the scene saying “surely normal dogs wouldn’t do that”. Well yes - and your dog could just as easy have been involved if it was being walked in the same circumstances. And I am a total dog lover.

Sure there are some breeds which are more dangerous than others due to size/strength or having been bred to fight - but ANY dog caught up in a “fight” will bite back in defence. It would only take one “nip” of one dog to another to set off a cascade of biting back which would turn into said “frenzy” when all dogs are effectively tethered together by their leads.

it’s horrific and I hate to think what the woman went through, but we can’t blame dogs for acting naturally. Maybe legalising muzzles would be an idea. It wouldn’t stop those who use dogs “for safety” such as drug dealers, but it would stop any “accidental” biting etc.

I can’t abide the dog walkers near me.
They never have full control and otherwise reasonably well (not brilliantly) trained dogs, whose owners are known to me via friends, dogs behave terribly in a pack.

I personally think mass dog walking (never more than two, three in exceptional circumstances only) should ever be ealked at one time.

Ever.

You simply can’t control other people’s dogs this way, and it’s way harder
when in a pack.

I actually hate seeing dog walkers when I am out.

@Quincythequince My neighbour is perhaps 7stone dripping wet. She walks two Akitas. They are what's called responsible owners.

If even one dog decides to cross the road, then it will go. She'll have no way to stop it. Now I've never seen that happen. It could though. That really worries me because her dog and mine hate each other. We duck and dive to avoid each other when we are out.

I'm not reassured by the fact her dog hasn't yet killed mine. It can, any time it chooses to, and there's sod all I can do about it.

I have owned many breeds dogs, my current choice of dog due to have to set age children is a Staffordshire bull terrier, one of only 2 breeds with totally reliability with kids. That said a Staffordshire bull terrier is not a dog suitable for 1st time dog owners, no bull breed as if you get it wrong the potential could be Catastrophic. The problem is people don't get a breed suited to lifestyle. My Stafford is also a caniX dog , although they are excellent with kids they need a lot of stimulation and a job to do as they are a intelligent dog. I train him daily, and have done since 8 weeks old. His training will never stop. His recall is excellent but like others he is rarely let off lead near people because dogs need to be kept under control. But he doesn't need off the lead as his needs are met, yesterday he went to canine pool for swimming in morning, followed by a 7 mile trail run attached to me as canicrossing. Today we are going for a 3 hour hike in hills. Sunday is a rest day but he will do brain training in the house.

When he is home he is calm and sleeps mostly. If I couldn't provide this level of stimulation I would of considered a different breed, perhaps a greyhound or dog bred for the lap.

People need to get suitable dogs for life style and quite frankly if they work all day and all the dog gets is a dog walker once a day and no further training when owners get home then they shouldn't have a dog.

Dogs take time and effort, training needs reinforced every single day. If you can't provide it , a cat is a better choice of pet,

I believe we need to move to all dogs on leads in public because unfortunately way to many have no control

Even though I was in middle of no where on my 7 mile run yesterday my dog was run at by two separate dogs that the owners had no recall. First one a large GSD dog , then a lady with a spaniel, both dogs totally ignored owners and ran at my dog. I shout stop and put my hand out and sit and it works with almost all dogs. I don't want my male dog jumped over, nor does he want it. He isn't interested in dogs all his go as is always 100% on me.

This is a daily occurrence for me with off lead dogs and annoys me.

Dog walkers need to stop walking dogs off the lead. I would never allow someone to let me dog off the lead. It's madness.

3 or 4 dogs max, walked at a brisk walking pace on the lead. Or allowed nice slow sniffy walks. This is what dog walkers should be doing.

I think it's quite clear from what's been said that this isn't to do with dangerous breeds.

This is one person taking 8 dogs out at the same time. Something triggered the dogs and they acted as a pack mentality. All dogs are pack animals, it is in their genetics to work together to bring down prey.

On lead or not would probably not have made a difference.

I was cornered once by 4 dogs in India. All about Jack Russell size. It was absolutely terrifying, I genuinely thought I could die. It took 3 locals throwing rocks to get them away.

Taking more than 2/3 dogs out at the same time is madness.

Why would a well trained, non-reactive dog just decide to cross the road?

That scenario is extremely unlikely to happen, and using extreme examples
doesnt help this whole argument really.

Because what you’re then saying is that all owners need to be able to physically handle their dogs, strength wise and that’s a different argument entirely and sillly rationalise the demise of a huge percentage of large powerful breeds, and even some mid size dogs too.

Of course there is always the issue of bitches in heat and salivating male suitors too. which no man or woman can ever truly control.

really (not silly). Sorry for typos.

one of only 2 breeds with totally reliability with kids

Absolute rubbish!

And to be quite frank with you, it’s hugely irresponsible of you as a staffie owner to promulgate such narrative around these dogs and such views are probably why so many ill-suited owners get them thinking they neve cause issues.

Yes, they are nanny dogs, yes they are often great with kids, but no dog of any breed is totally reliable. Ever.

@Quincythequince

Well not according to the KC. They recommend only two breeds to have total reliability with children. The Staffordshire bull terrier and the King Charles spaniel

So if you don't believe it .. take it up with them ...although I do think they know a lot about dogs

I have owned many staffies.

I maintain that no breed can ever be considered totally reliable around children, or indeed anyone, ever.

There are no absolutes in dog ownership.

Please link me to where the KC says this?! I am pretty horrified to be honest.

Kings Charles Spaniels? You mean the ones whose heads are so tiny in bad lines that they can exhibit extremely erratic behaviour?

Ok then…

See now the dangers of typing a breed?!

I’d be more likely to trust a Newfoundland or a Leonberger, temperament wise, than a KC spaniel.

@Quincythequince if you read my post I clearly state the Stafford is not suitable as a first time dog owners dog.. even though excellent with kids. I gave the reason as to why I chose is as my current breed. It suits my family lifestyle. If I didn't have kids I wouldn't of choose the breed , I would of went for a dog better suited to caniX like a Vizsla etc.

I'm am extremely responsible when it comes to dogs and knowledgeable.

You can’t not say a breed is totally reliable in absolute terms. You said this!

It is simply wrong and potentially dangerous to do so.

No experienced, knowledgeable dog owner would say or even think this.

And I’m not questioning your ownership of one, not indeed what sounds like your very good lifestyle with one (although why a rest day for any dog?!).