What proportion of men who identify as women do you think have had an operation to remove their male genitals?

[ScrollingLeaves]

Given that any man who identifies as a woman may legally be treated as a woman, join women’s sports, be housed in women's prisons, be in a women’s rape crisis centre, or be on a women’s hospital ward,

I am interested to know what other women reading here think about this question.

The reason for asking here, not on the Feminism and Women’s Rights/Gender board, Mumsnet HQ, is to find out what people think more generally. Please do not move it.

I am asking this out of interest in the wake of the Gender Recognition Reform Bill which has just been passed by Scottish Parliament.

I literally just opened Twitter to be met with "if you're a man with a vagina, with an enlarged clitoris ( which is what a penis is)".
It's not us women obsessed with genitals.

I don't care if a man has his penis or has had it removed, I still don't want to share single-sex spaces with a bloke. You cannot change sex. A woman isn't a man minus his penis. And how on earth would you police this?

For the love, safety and dignity of my fellow women NO!

If you can't see it, or you have absolutely no idea what we are talking about, then sit down, do some reading, some thinking.

Men have no place in female spaces.

Given that any man who identifies as a woman may legally be treated as a woman, join women’s sports, be housed in women's prisons, be in a women’s rape crisis centre, or be on a women’s hospital ward,

Does that necessarily follow that they're allowed *automatic access to those places, especially if they're pre op? Wouldn't there be safeguarding concerns?

I don't know what the number who would have had an operation but I'd guess just under half? I'd imagine some might be on waiting lists or there might be monetary constraints or a tiny number who don't go through with it.

Question to all the posters who will allow a man with an amputated genitals into women's sports and spaces:

Do you think my mum (full hysterectomy, mastectomy) should have to use the men's? If not why not?

No idea. Less than 2% for sure I'd bet.

Don't know and the stats will probably never be available because they don't want you to know (because we al 'know' it's a very low %).

I don't want anyone born male, their sex observed at birth, to be in any women's spaces incl toilets, sports, prisons.

Trans indentifying men can never be women in my world, I don't care that they've got a certificate that says they are. They can never have a vagina because you can't just make one of these.

I don't want us to fall into the 'trap' of saying that having bottom surgery makes a difference, their sex is in every cell in their body. Their 'lives experience' is that of a man, they cannot know what 'living as a woman is'.

I think it's problematic to allow even post op to compete in women's sports as there would still be unfair physical advantage in some sports. There are trans categories in any case.

Do you mean women?
And do you mean orchiectomy and remodelling of the penis?

Let's not be coy! You are asking if partial removal if male genitalia makes a man a woman, or at least more acceptable/less dangerous in female spaces. No. They remain male and the time for being nice, allowing men the decide on whether or not they should access female spaces is over.

Let alk men learn the accommodate all other men.

Much better way of illustrating the total stupidity if that question.

I suspect it's incredibly low.

Very very few. If they try wanted to be a woman they would get penis and testicles removed. That is how I know it is all fake.

She used the womens, because she's a woman, obviously. What other answer are you looking for?

I used to think it was 100% or that everyone was on the pathway to having bottom surgery, and used to think that to transition required a diagnosis of gender dysphoria plus relevant hormones and top/bottom surgery.

Then I realised I was very, very misguided.

I'm trying to understand why PPs on here think a man with an amputated penis should be considered a woman?

For some posters to actually thinks about what is being asked.

I don't see where anyone has said that a man without a penis is, or should be considered, a woman?

I don't know because I don't generally ask to see people's genitals. I really don't see the problem with the GRA, which just makes things very slightly easier for trans men and women to get on with their lives. If people get up to criminal behaviour they need to be punished through the courts, whatever their gender. The waiting list for any gender transition treatment is currently years and years, I feel that compassion is more helpful here than scaremongering.

Look harder because at least one PP has.

Google phallus-preserving vaginoplasty. Or don:t.

Neovaginas can be constructed from non genital tissue, such as intestine.

Oh, and to preserve the function of the penis, testosterone cream is applied to it if the patient is taking female hormones

These threads are the worst thing about MN.

It doesn't matter who gets what surgery. You'll just complain about something else.

Today's winner of the Totally Disingenuous Prize

Congratulations 🎊

It's not trans women I worry about in shared spaces it's men pretending to be trans women that are my worry

Could you explain the difference between "trans women" (males who say they are women) and "men pretending to be trans women" ( males who say they are women)?

Very few I reckon. That's why I don't believe those who claim they "feel" like a woman when they want to keep their intact fully functioning penis.

I'll never understand why being known by an opposite-sex name or pronouns (which are secondary, driven by the actual sex) is so extremely upsetting for so many people; yet having no desire whatsoever to have an opposite-sex genital organ removed is so very, very common.

I thought the same with that transman Guardian journalist who fought tirelessly to be regarded as the father of the baby that they gave birth to: why would somebody so resolutely identifying as male deliberately choose to do the most female (and male-excluding) thing that you could possibly do? I gather said journalist wasn't alone in that either, going on all the NHS trusts insisting on referring to 'pregnant people' and 'chest feeding'.