What proportion of men who identify as women do you think have had an operation to remove their male genitals?

[ScrollingLeaves]

Given that any man who identifies as a woman may legally be treated as a woman, join women’s sports, be housed in women's prisons, be in a women’s rape crisis centre, or be on a women’s hospital ward,

I am interested to know what other women reading here think about this question.

The reason for asking here, not on the Feminism and Women’s Rights/Gender board, Mumsnet HQ, is to find out what people think more generally. Please do not move it.

I am asking this out of interest in the wake of the Gender Recognition Reform Bill which has just been passed by Scottish Parliament.

This

I would guess a very small % , like 5%.

A penis can be a weapon of war, a torture instrument, a potential threat to vulnerable women. We don’t want any penis owners, however they identify, in women’s safe spaces. Otherwise vulnerable women will self exclude from spaces and services they need. I have practical experience of this issue working with refugees.

What proportion of men who ID as women do you feel are a danger to women in female toilets, rape centres, hospital wards

This is a guess but I would say 30 -40%.

compared with men who ID as men in not gendered areas

I would say about 5%

When you say " a danger to women" I am including a whole range of dangers: verbal abuse: threats: stalking: intimidation: assault: rape: murder, so a very wide definition.

For the love of god, please stop obsessing about other people’s genitals.

We'd absolutely love to, if you could get men to keep their genitals out of womens spaces, we can do that.
Any plans for how you're going to manage that?

I would imagine quite high. These men are very intent on gaining access to spaces used by women.

The 3 I know have all either had it done or it is booked. From ‘coming out’ to surgery has taken 3 to 5+ years in each case, even 3 years I think is too soon. So I’m glad if people don’t rush into it.

But I’m not glad if the general public assume that a transwoman doesn’t have a penis.

Imo it should be 100%. Then I would accept them in women's spaces. Otherwise they are waiting to become a trans person.
The issue should be making men accept the ones 'waiting to become' in their spaces (if indeed they currently don't).

1%?

When my taxes stop funding GRS I'll be sure to do that.

If they keep their male parts intact then do these still function if they're taking female hormones strong enough to make them grow breasts and lose body hair?
Don't they atrophy and cease to work?

You are assuming they are taking cross sex hormones in the first place - there is no requirement to do so.

From the Equality Act:
)
A person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning the person's sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex.

I will as soon as male people ie TW stop pretending to have “period pains”. Deeply offensive

A very small proportion as they’d be incredibly vulnerable without their favourite ’toy’ wouldn’t they? 😒

I also think the majority enjoy being fetishes, I’ve supported men in trans crisis when I worked as a support worker in LD & MH and every one I supported said this to me (7 in total).

The number is low. Many reasons for this, not all nefarious eg. long waiting lists, likelihood of complications, life long medical issues etc.
I take no issue with anyone identifying as a woman whether a penis is present or not.
However, where the line gets drawn is really simple. If you currently have a penis, you cannot be allowed to compete as a female in sports, reside in female prisons, be treated on female wards or expect to be welcomed into any place that is female only.
I will also go so far as to say that some of the above should be true even if you no longer have a penis but at one time did.
Perhaps I’m being too simplistic 🤷‍♀️

Would mumsnetters feel differently about trans people being in women’s spaces if they have had full bottom surgery?

Found this 2018

dont know the source or how accurate it is

fairplayforwomen.com/penis/

Then get male people to stop waving their dicks about. This includes dick pics, old fashioned flashing outside and the new flashing by self declaring to be a transwoman so you can sit with it hanging out in the womens changing rooms.

Did you know in the US there is an initiative to stop flashing of dicks to be indecent exposure because self declared transwomen keep getting arrested for this by having their cocks out in the womens changing rooms?

No

🙂 it's really hard to find stats on this, for many reasons. The ONS explained the difficulty a couple of years ago. The best guess we have for UK data is about 5 years old.

Without reliable data on how many people are Trans anything Stonewall, the SNP etc tell us about the impact of laws, or the lack thereof, on any cohort is meaningless. As are the bald statements that there is not evidence that GRR negatively impacts female rights. They just don't know because nobody keeps robust data.

As in once a man is a transwomen under a GRR he is then 'a woman' (see various SNP statements in the last week). So his crimes are recorded female crimes. So no transwoman contravenes any laws. Nice and neat when you think about it.

That is the logic we are up against. These are the laws we are trying to shine a light on. This is why questions like this are needed... To try and highlight the breadth of the issues.

Well... given that the proportion of those who have had an operation to remove half their Y chromosomes and replace them with X chromosomes is 0.00%, then they really need to make more of an effort, don't they?