I cannot believe the conversation I just had with my dickhead ex about his Xmas plans. I need impartial views on what I should do.

[Rantaboutmytwatofanex]

Ex and I have 2 daughters, both under 7, we split when they were a newborn and 2 and have been attempting to co-parent since.

There is a long and colourful history of him being a mediocre father, and he has only had them for Christmas one half day (his choice) but has insisted on Christmas this year as it falls on his weekend. I'm obviously gutted to miss out for myself, but I'm excited the girls will spend the day with their dad.

Knowing what he is like I asked what he had bought them and if he has a stocking sorted etc.

He has bought them both 1 inappropriate gift each (stuff that he wants, and the girls have no interest in and are far too young for) and he said he isn't pissing about doing a stocking for them as he never had when he was a kid. He has no extra food in because they can have leftovers when I pick them up and he will just do pizza.

They won't miss out because I have stuff they need/have asked for/will like, and I know they will be really grateful for what they recieve at his house, but the things he has aren't even toys and are totally unusable for the girls.

So my choices are:

Leave them to have a no effort Christmas with their dad.

Provide the stockings they have here which will include treat food and small toys and books and give him all the santa key, reindeer food etc that make Xmas magic for little ones.

Tell him to fuck off and I just do Xmas as normal here and keep them.

I think I'm swaying towards the second option as they do love him, but I also resent the fact I have to put in the effort because he can't be arsed.

I've already spoken to him and he will not be making any additional effort at all, so that's not an option.

Any advice about what I should do?

For goodness sake don't prop him up any more than you already have done, that's not doing the girls or you any favours in the long run.

Have the nice Christmas at home with them, and if the girls are upset or ask him awkward questions about their presents/lack of stockings etc, 100% he deserves to have to deal with that himself.

And definitely the camera shite comes home with the girls, they are their presents to have and they should damn well have them to sell on ebay and replace with things they actually want

I agree with everyone saying don't enable his shit behaviour. Have your own Christmas on whatever day works best for you.

And I also agree with this:

and take gift he gives your dds and eBay it and buy something for your dc they’d want

Wholeheartedly!!! Bastard buying stuff for himself pretending it's their presents. Get that shit home and SOLD!

A friend of mine was in this situation. What happened was she hid how bad he was from the kids for so long, then when they reached teenage years and hiding it becomes impossible, they ended up really struggling to cope with the reality.

Obviously I am not facing your dilemma so it's easier said than done but I do think it's better for them to know now that he is a crap, low effort dad rather than grow up thinking he loves them etc and having bigger heartache later. They are going to be hurt at some point when they realise how useless he is and you can't delay it forever.

I suspect you adore your kids so will end up doing option 2. Yes, you're covering his arse but in years to come when your kids realise he's useless you'll know you did everything to protect and love them. Maybe if he'd had a stocking at Christmas and presents he'd wanted then he wouldn't have ended up being such a loser!

Mt daughter's ex won't let the grandchildren take their presents home either. It's a control thing and not worth battling over. Every communication turns into an abusive rant about how awful she is and how hard done by he is. He thrives on that type of thing, so we just ignore. Pretty soon the children will come to realise how controlling and unfair it is and we are waiting for that moment.

He gave them a fucking microwave??

I couldnt let him kill their christmas spirit. I'd send them with stockings, or keep them till 11am christmas morn

Haven't read the whole thread I did read your posts.

I'd keep it simple and absolutely refuse to let him stress you out.

Have a European style Christmas on Christmas Eve.

Leave the stockings for when they wake up on Christmas Day.

Prepare presents for your daughters to give to him that are entirely inappropriate for him but totally suitable for them.

And have a quiet, lovely Boxing Day for the three of you.

I adore my kids, I don't cover my ex's arse.
I do everything I can to protect and love them, but I won't stand in and do what their Dad should be doing. Yes, it's been very, very tough, especially for my youngest child, but I have been as honest as I can with him. He trusts me and he also knows I don't have the answer for why his Dad is so awful.
When he decided to stop seeing him I supported him and also said it didn't have to be for ever.
It is my hope he will have some sort of relationship with him when feel ready. If it all, it will be when he is able to do things on his own terms.

@Rantaboutmytwatofanex I really think you have to leave him to it. The kids need to see him for what he is, not hear it from you. You can say that this way they get two Christmas-es. You don't want to look like the person who stopped them seeing their Dad. But you can have your own, wonderful Christmas on boxing day. Just say when they're at Dad's it's Dad's rules and he might do stuff differently. Also, I would think about going to court yourself for the regular contact so you don't have to have any of this random dates stuff going on. One of my good friends had similar with her ex who did nothing/paid nothing while she broke herself working full time. She never bad-mouthed the ex but her child worked it all out and knew exactly what the Dad was like in the end. I know this will play on your conscience but if you do this, he gets out of doing anything, can play you off as the baddie and it will be this kind of passive aggressive manipulation for the next however many years.

@ancientgran It was lovely - they're both 19 now, and have really fond memories of doing it. :)

Haven’t RTFT. I’d go for option one, let him get on with it and don’t facilitate it for him.

When your DD’s get home, tell them that Father Christmas got mixed up and let their stockings at your house. Have a proper Christmas celebration with them.

Your ex can celebrate Christmas with them as he wishes and so can you. They’ll soon figure out which version they prefer.

Give them Christmas at home on Christmas eve or on boxing day. Let him get on with it. Don't save him

This isn't about Christmas Day.

He tells them they can only have girlie haircuts and short haircuts are for boys
He tries to make them wear dresses and girlie clothes when they don't want to
He tells them boys hit girls when they like them
He makes zero effort with them, buying them totally unsuitable presents and doing the bare minimum
He falls asleep when he's supposed to be parenting
He lies to them about money
He steals their clothes so they go back to you dressed unsuitably for the weather

It's abundantly clear he's using them as a weapon to continue to abuse you OP, and in the process abusing them.

At what point is the above better than no father in their lives? Or supervised, court ordered contact? What benefit is he to them, above the nebulous concept of knowing their father?

I agree with PP that you should make him go to court for contact, it sounds like he wouldn't bother. He's never going to be the father they deserve and you can't make him into that.

Sounds like he had a pretty dire childhood himself.

I'd set my kids up to expect the stockings to be at home, and there waiting for when they come back. I'd let them have one present on Christmas Eve. I'd tell them that Daddy does Christmas differently without undermining him.

H has bought himself new camera equipment and I'm presuming he needed a new microwave last year?

You can't make excuses for him any more.

I would move Christmas to 23rd. Send a letter from Santa saying that he is coming early. The kids won't care when ex serves them frozen pizza.

Can I please add that they should be sure to take their gifts from Daddy home with them when you collect them? They shouldn't be left in Daddy's house as they will be gifts from him to them, and as they spend the majority of their time with you, that is where they should be allowed to bring the 'gifts' he gives them so that they can "enjoy" them.
(for enjoy, see chuck around the place and use as they see fit). Not that they would have much use for a camera lens but if it's a gift for them surely Daddy couldn't force them to leave their gift in his house where they don't get to use it at all???

Would that be possible do you think?

#Devious 😉😉 😈😈

as I understand it, deadbeat dad is having them from teatime on Friday till Sunday so Christmas Eve is also at his as well so no chance to do anything then either!

Thank you everyone.

I know, I know I sound like an idiot.

Stockings have always been from santa, and the presents from me and him individually, so I think that's the bit I find upsetting the most. I don't want them to wake up thinking santa forgot them, but there have been some great ideas to counteract that, and about managing expectations.

He has never really cared about Xmas before so I'm not sure whats changed this year for him. He usually volunteers to work for the extra pay.

I just see the impact having no real dad had on my older dc and want to prevent that, but maybe I'm doing it at the cost of my daughters and am still fucking things up, just in a different way.

I know I am possibly sounding a bit controlling, and I'm really trying not to be here, but he is literally making the most minimal effort possible. I'm not expecting a full roast dinner, even I don't do that, but surely a stocking, some party hats, maybe a couple of bowls of sweets and a tube of pringles isn't asking the earth?

In 3 or 4 years when the girls don't believe in santa anymore then they can absolutely go and have a rubbish day and that's fine, but I don't want that magic ruined in the few short years they have of being so small because he can't be arsed.

I would love to sell the gifts he gets the girls but they will never come out of his house. He doesn't allow them to remove anything from his house at all since the clothes incident.

Another layer to this is that I've had another diagnosis of cancer again and I'm going to need him to look after the girls while I go in for my op, my older kids have worked their jobs around my treatments as much as they can, but I'll need him to have them for a week again soon.

Last time I had pissed him off a few days before my op (asked him to stop smoking in the house due to dds lung problem) and he told me he just wasn't going to look after them for me anymore, and I don't really have any other options for a whole week. I fully believe that he is so insistent on this Christmas because I'm unwell, and potentially (although not likely) won't be here next christmas. If I say no I believe he will say he isn't having them while I have my op.

I do have other options which would involve a bit if upheaval for the girls and being passed around a bit, which I was really hoping not to have to do.

The long and short of it is that I need to do what's right by my girls though. It's just so difficult.

It is hard when the other parent doesn't make the effort you do but sometimes you just have to bite your lip and let them do it their way. Ultimately, the kids wont care about having pizza, yes they may miss a stocking but they can have that with you.

I would let the kids go their dads and let him do xmas his way. You have boxing day as your xmas day with stockings, appropriate presents and xmas food. If you are feeling extra nice pick up two cheap stockings with a few treats in to send to dad's but don't feel you have to.

As they are off school, just have your Christmas before they go to his. On Christmas eve morning or 23rd December.

My ex is spectacularly shit and if he had the kids this Christmas that is what I was planning to do. The thought of mine waking up on (real ) Christmas morning with no gifts, no Christmas Dinner, and no magic also broke my heart. But if they've already had a good Christmas with you, then they hopefully won't care how shit his one is.

That is so crap. If you do send them to him for the Christmas weekend, just make sure you do a proper Christmas with them when they get back.

He's never going to learn to treat them better if he never has to face their disappointment. You will be doing none of them any favours in the long term if you cover up for his shitty behaviour. Let him get on with it.

But with all love OP your 2 younger Dc have no real dad either. Not one who cares about them, puts them first & tries really hard to make them happy

What a feckless waste of space. He doesn’t deserve children.

option 1, but manage expectations. Tell them that it’s daddy Christmas on day 1, and then mummy Christmas on day 2. Tell them that everyone does Christmas their own way, and they’re lucky they get to have 2 different Christmasses! Tell them that daddy doesn’t do some of the traditions that mummy does. But that’s just how he does Christmas. When they’re grown ups they’ll get to do Christmas however they want, too.

as for Father Christmas, maybe just tell him he only ever covers one Christmas, and this year he’ll be delivering for the day 2 mummy Christmas.

Don’t cover for him, they need to see how he is for themselves, in a managed way as to not cause upset- just honesty.

I'm basically going through the same thing. I'm dying to tell him to fuck off!! I am.making boxing day as magical as possible with me to make up for it. Some people are just useless!! Oh and my ex told my 5 year old Santa doesn't exist....utter twat