I cannot believe the conversation I just had with my dickhead ex about his Xmas plans. I need impartial views on what I should do.

[Rantaboutmytwatofanex]

Ex and I have 2 daughters, both under 7, we split when they were a newborn and 2 and have been attempting to co-parent since.

There is a long and colourful history of him being a mediocre father, and he has only had them for Christmas one half day (his choice) but has insisted on Christmas this year as it falls on his weekend. I'm obviously gutted to miss out for myself, but I'm excited the girls will spend the day with their dad.

Knowing what he is like I asked what he had bought them and if he has a stocking sorted etc.

He has bought them both 1 inappropriate gift each (stuff that he wants, and the girls have no interest in and are far too young for) and he said he isn't pissing about doing a stocking for them as he never had when he was a kid. He has no extra food in because they can have leftovers when I pick them up and he will just do pizza.

They won't miss out because I have stuff they need/have asked for/will like, and I know they will be really grateful for what they recieve at his house, but the things he has aren't even toys and are totally unusable for the girls.

So my choices are:

Leave them to have a no effort Christmas with their dad.

Provide the stockings they have here which will include treat food and small toys and books and give him all the santa key, reindeer food etc that make Xmas magic for little ones.

Tell him to fuck off and I just do Xmas as normal here and keep them.

I think I'm swaying towards the second option as they do love him, but I also resent the fact I have to put in the effort because he can't be arsed.

I've already spoken to him and he will not be making any additional effort at all, so that's not an option.

Any advice about what I should do?

Some nice ideas in this post, OP.

If you talk about Christmasses around the world, you can tell them that many countries celebrate Christmas on Christmas Eve (I think many Scandanavian and Eastern European countries do - certainly someone on here will know).

Then they can have stockings at yours on Christmas Eve (possibly with some traditional treats from those other countries - IKEA does lovely biscuits/gingerbread houses you can construct yourself), lousy Christmas Day at dad's, and finish with a lovely Christmas evening where they get their presents that Santa left at yours (and maybe a tasty "party" tea of nice little bits and pieces but with some special treats again, to make up for the lousy pizza), and on Boxing Day a delicious traditional dinner, with crackers and hats, and perhaps a "forgotten" present - say a game to jigsaw you could all do together.

It could go from nice to meh to nice again. And they would finish on a high.

Tell him to fuck off and I just do Xmas as normal here and keep them.

^ this ones the winner

As for people saying 'you cant stop him' you could if you want, whats best for the KIDS not adults should always come first... if he can be bothered to provide suitable food and age appropriate items then he clearly can't be trusted to look after them alone.

Making children suffer just to say 'they saw their dad' is being accessory to taking part in their neglect (and I say that as a child of devorce and neglect who lived it).

Theres a world of difference between A) using a child as a weapon and banning a parent from their lives and B) implimenting boundries to protect your children against neglect while still encouraging their father to take part in their life.

Your childrens xmas routine is what they know at your house, its not fair to put them (the innocent ones) through the upheaval of ruining that for the wants of an adult, instead invite him to spend the day at yours with you and your DD so they can have the security of the xmas they know and both parents present.

Absolutely, and get them to ask to play with daddy’s lovely cameras.

Or, of course, this. ⬆

But whatever you do, don't cover for the git.

Given they haven’t got court order then ultimately it is op’s decision.
Yes he usually has weekends but op always has Xmas day it’s just how it’s fallen this year it’s a weekend. She drives he doesn’t. If she wasn’t willing to pick up Xmas day evening eg if she had plans/a drink on Christmas Day then he’d not be able to have contact as he couldn’t return them as he needs to work Boxing Day. Unless he got a taxi I suppose but would be £££ and not always available.
I’d see what girls wanted to do.

Just let him do his own Xmas.
Then you can do yours when they come back.
They'll basically have 2 Xmas days.

Yours is a really sensible post @mam0918.

My children's father lives in chaotic clutter and this winter is refusing to switch the heat on. He frequently falls asleep in the daytime while 'looking after' them.

I have really scaled back contact because I can't subject my kids to hours/overnighters in a freezing cold house.

He has plenty of money but opts to squander it on shit.

I would love the break but I just can't subject them to his half-assed parenting.

Just do your Christmas on a different day. Keep your stockings and your gifts and do it on the 26th or whenever you have them home that is closest to Christmas. My family alternated between 3 days for Christmas and it really doesn't matter.

This is the best option.

It would be mean to make them wait for their Christmas stockings but I wouldn't be bailing your ex out either.

Early presents from Santa, then Christmas meal and presents from Mummy when they get back.

This

I’d be keeping them

Please don’t make up for the shortfall. We need to stop propping up shitty men.

I would let the girls go but lightly prepare them for low expectations. Then do your Xmas your way with them after.

My ex was shitty too and did the exact same with the low effort and pizza on his first go. I thought he’d at least do them a microwave roast dinner or something! I did tell him how disappointed they were. He just said “I don’t know how to do all that stuff.”

Luckily his mum had them over for subsequent years and all the magic was taken care of.

Our arrangement was always one parent has the kids for Xmas Eve until around 6 or 7 on Xmas day, then the other parent takes the kids to their own “Xmas Eve and Xmas day” routine, just a day later. Then we swapped the next year. That way the kids get Xmas with both parents.

So, I'd say that Santa understands about children who have a mummy and daddy who don't live together and that he usually does stockings at the house where they live most of the time.

Santa has a special phone line/email so parents can request he comes on a different day in these circumstances.
So, as it is their turn to be with daddy on Saturday/Sunday, you've asked Santa to come on Sunday night instead and you are going to move your Christmas Day to Monday so you can have fun together.

You can show them Santa's reply so that they are sure it is going to happen and they won't be worried at Dads that Santa isn't coming.

As they will have to wait an extra day for their stocking Santa will leave them an extra present each as their reward for being patient and waiting an extra day.

Then when you get them back on Christmas Night, introduce whatever special ritual you want -. Christmas night box, sparklers in garden to signal to Santa or whatever.

You can refer to it as "daddy's Christmas" and "Mummy's Christmas".

Option 1. Let them see him for the shit, selfish bastard that he is.

Then smother then with love and Christmas when they are back with you.

I know it's tough, but if you send them over with stockings and presents and food and everything else, you're just reaffirming that you'll do it all for him and he'll do it again. And again. And again. Every bloody year. Trust me.

They'll be alright with pizza for a night and you can have your proper Christmas on Boxing Day.

Please keep you children with you and ensure they have a great Christmas away from their selfish dad.
Unfortunately I have been unable to be with my children for the last few years due to family breakup. Your Ex is being a selfish self centred prick and doesn't deserve your help or understanding. He plans to ruin your children's Christmas out of spite, what a despicable vile human.

Agree.

I've changed my mind.

If you're the only parent prepared to do the work to give them a proper Christmas then you do it

He can give them shit presents, get a pizza out of the freezer and sleep their visit away on Boxing Day. or the Bank Holiday.

Why should the children suffer because he's a selfish controlling prick?

OP, reading about all the ways in which this man is abusing his daughters, I would be tempted to go to court yourself to prevent him from having them unsupervised. He sounds actually unhinged to me.

I vote for let him fall on his face. I know it's hard on you emotionally, but the DDs will survive. Just tell them that Santa let you know that he was bringing their gifts/stockings to your house and they'll be there when they get home. Then I'd just let them open gifts when they get home and have a cup of hot cocoa afterwards. If they're up past bedtime that night, so be it. And I'd have Xmas food on Monday.

"......Friday tea time until Sunday night"

Since here's no court order I'd probably tell him that 'it doesn't work for you' to transport them on Fridays anymore so he'll need to start transporting them to his.
Do the 'pick up' on Sundays so you can retrieve clothing etc.

A friend had that exact same issue (disappearing clothes & toys) PLUS getting to his house to drop off and having to sit in her car for an hour or so because he wasn't home or 'not ready' for their DC. So she told him he would need to pick up from hers and she'd pick up from his at the end of visitation. Oddly enough, he was ALWAYS home when it came time to give their DC back as he couldn't wait to be free to hit the bars.

Of course he was never on time for his pick ups either (or just didn't show up at all) so she had a hard time making plans. They ended up in court and she got the order to specify that if he didn't show up within 30 minutes of his start time of 10 am (barring true emergencies), visitation was cancelled and she was free to leave.

My parents were split when I was a baby. We always had two Christmases - one at one of theirs on Xmas day, and the next at the other parent's on boxing day. I just thought santa came back round again to all the families with divorced parents on xmas night, essentially just a second loop around the world! I loved it - both felt exciting and special and I never questioned it! I'm sorry your ex is being rubbish, but I would just do your xmas on boxing day.

Have people missed that as well as having a shit time for the weekend at their ‘Dad’s’ they are missing time with their older sibling who won’t be able to be there the other days?

And I agree he does sound unhinged. Whatever about not being a good cook and doing a nice dinner so giving them pizza buying a bloody microwave for a 3 and 5 year old as he did last year and photography equipment for a 4 and 6 year this year old is seriously unhinged behaviour! Leaving them unattended while he sleeps is neglectful. Not dressing them appropriately for the weather is neglectful.

I would do Christmas on xmas eve but not tell them. Surprise them with it and a note ‘from Santa’ saying he knows they won’t be there on Christmas morning so you should do Christmas a day early so they don’t have to carry all their presents back from their dads house. That way they get Christmas Day (and you do!) and he won’t be able to stop them taking the presents home. And they’ll be thrilled with the surprise of it a day early.

I agree.

The presents for himself thing and the dressing them up girly thing upset me enough for me to read out the post to my household.

Unanimous "wrong'un" from us.

If you want your DC growing up thinking their father does a fantastic Christmas day send all their presents/stocking over to him before they go over so they don't see you take them.

If you want them to know the truth of the extent of his efforts .........

I agree with this really. You can't really interfere with what he is doing. You split up so that's for him to decide and the girls will make up their minds about where they want to spend Christmas as the years go by.

I think you should just do Christmas your way when they are with you, even if it's actually on Christmas Eve/ Boxing Day etc.