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Ukraine Invasion: Part 36

992 replies

MagicFox · 03/12/2022 15:42

Slava Ukraini πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ Thanks as usual to all contributors and lurkers

OP posts:
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MissConductUS · 05/01/2023 16:58

blueshoes · 05/01/2023 16:28

Thanks for explaining. I was under the (wrong) impression that culminating meant reaching peak offensive. Hopefully it is downhill for Russia in Bakhmut soon.

The term is confusing that way. Think of it as "they've gone as far as they can."

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 05/01/2023 17:04

thereisonlyoneofme · 05/01/2023 16:54

Obviously it will be deemed Ukraines fault if they dont recognise it.Pity 25th and 26th December didnt have a ceasefire

It’s win either way for Russia.
Ukraine refuses and looks bad. Or they agree and Russia fails to respect it and makes progress.
Am waiting for Zelensky to say something biting in response.

MissConductUS · 05/01/2023 17:06

notimagain · 05/01/2023 14:37

Zelensky: France vowed (kyivindependent.com/news-feed/france-vows-to-send-light-tanks-armored-fighting-vehicles-to-ukraine) to send light tanks, armored fighting vehicles to Ukraine.
This is the first time that a Western country has agreed to give tanks to Ukraine β€” a supply that Kyiv has been asking for for months.

Pendant alert - some will say they aren't technically tanks 🀐..... they're certainly not a Main Battle Tanks (MBT) such as Leopard.

On an armour/protection basis they are not something you'd want to be in going head to head with one of the more modern Russian tanks but it's good piece of kit with significant fire power and I'm sure they''ll be put to good use:

AMX-10C - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMX-10_RC

It's a bit of a camel's nose entering the tent, innit?

In other good armor-related news, it looks like the Ukrainians are getting Bradleys.

twitter.com/mexic0la_/status/1610841970855014401

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 05/01/2023 17:38

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 05/01/2023 18:57

The #UnitedStates will include about 50 Bradley fighting vehicles in the package of armed assistance to #Ukraine, which will be presented on January 6, β€” Reuters.

Autumnnewname · 05/01/2023 19:38

That made me laugh

There's a longer vid with the Belarusian border guard whinging about "provocation"

MissConductUS · 05/01/2023 19:54

It's safe to say that the Russians will hate the Bradleys.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 05/01/2023 20:14

even more good news ...

Emily Haber
@GermanAmbUSA
Β·
1h
Germany government official
BREAKING: Germany will provide Marder infantry fighting vehicles to #Ukraine️. We’ll also join the U.S. in supplying an additional Patriot air defense battery.

Igotjelly · 05/01/2023 20:16

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 05/01/2023 20:14

even more good news ...

Emily Haber
@GermanAmbUSA
Β·
1h
Germany government official
BREAKING: Germany will provide Marder infantry fighting vehicles to #Ukraine️. We’ll also join the U.S. in supplying an additional Patriot air defense battery.

Yes very good news. Clearly something has given behind the scenes to allow all these armoured vehicles to be sent.

In other news what a breath of fresh air this thread is after reading the other Ukraine thread Russian propaganda

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 05/01/2023 20:18

not seen that one and if it's full of Russian propaganda, Im glad. That stuff is insidious ...

Igotjelly · 05/01/2023 20:22

Sometimes I want to signpost people this way for genuine discussion but then I think what a nice wee haven it is and decide not to in case the trolls come too. It’s a shame really.

MissConductUS · 05/01/2023 20:29

Igotjelly · 05/01/2023 20:16

Yes very good news. Clearly something has given behind the scenes to allow all these armoured vehicles to be sent.

In other news what a breath of fresh air this thread is after reading the other Ukraine thread Russian propaganda

The well-known military analyst Mark Hertling commanded a Bradley formation in Iraq and has advocated sending them to Ukraine for ages. They are tough as nails, reliable, and easy to maintain in addition to being highly lethal. They also run on diesel fuel, which simplifies the logistics. They scored more enemy vehicle kills in Iraq than the Abrams tanks did. He has a good Twitter thread about what adding all of the new armored vehicles means for Ukraine on the battlefield.

I see this as setting the stage for the next strategic Ukrainian offensive, and I think that traditional main battle tanks will follow soon.

twitter.com/MarkHertling/status/1610784026234691589?

Fladdermus · 05/01/2023 20:37

Putin is ready for peace, so long as Ukraine agree to let him keep all the land he's taken. I hope they tell him where to shove that too.

www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/01/05/putin-signals-readiness-for-peace-talks-if-kyiv-cedes-occupied-regions-a79877

Mb76 · 05/01/2023 20:41

Fladdermus · 05/01/2023 20:37

Putin is ready for peace, so long as Ukraine agree to let him keep all the land he's taken. I hope they tell him where to shove that too.

www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/01/05/putin-signals-readiness-for-peace-talks-if-kyiv-cedes-occupied-regions-a79877

I am sure that is exactly what they will tell him.

katem98 · 05/01/2023 20:42

Yes, Ukraine has already ruled it out.

"A senior Ukrainian official has today reiterated Kyiv's rejection of any peace deal with Moscow that would allow Russia to keep Ukrainian territory seized by Vladimir Putin's forces.
The Russian president told Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan earlier that Moscow was open to dialogue over Ukraine but that Kyiv would have to accept the loss of territories claimed by Russia, the Kremlin said.
"Axiom: why will it be impossible to make a deal with the Russian Federation?" Ukrainian presidential adviser Mykhailo Podolyak wrote on Twitter.
"The Russian Federation (Putin) under the word 'talks' offers Ukraine & the world to recognize 'its right to seize foreign territories' & 'to fix the absence of legal consequences for mass killings on foreign territory'. It's fully unacceptable.""

Mb76 · 05/01/2023 20:44

I haven’t seen the other thread either and I am glad too. Clearly Russian bots/ trolls are on their Christmas holidays with too much time to spare

Fladdermus · 05/01/2023 20:47

Maybe they could offer to let him have the areas he wants and they get Moscow in return. Fair's fair.

Mb76 · 05/01/2023 21:12

I’m a bit late to the discussion, but work has been crazy (customer care in retail over Christmas and Boxing Day sales) … anyhow. I wanted to add my two pence regarding tourism / travel to Russia.

In my previous job role I travelled to Russia, in particular to Moscow and St Petersburg. I think in total I’ve been there 7-8 times between 2015 and 2020. Previously I’d been there in 2009 and before then in 2000.

what I noticed first in 2009 and to a much greater degree in 2015 onwards, was a gradual retreat of the society back into Cold War. Putin was playing a slow game. On one hand, Moscow and St Petersburg looked like any modern city, with all the modern commodities including speedy Wi-Fi in the underground (metro), Uber, incredible food/ restaurants, you name it.

But at the same time there was a feeling that nothing really changed since my Soviet childhood in the 80’s.
They were still singing the same old songs that were popular in the 80’s by the same performers who looked the same. There was still an overwhelming presence of communism/ WW2 Victory glorification, obsession with Russia being the saviour of Europe. Lenin’s mummy still ever present in his mausoleum in Red Square. People queuing to see him.

i also noticed how much Moscow especially changed ethnically. There were a lot of people from the former Asian republics, there were mosques. A lot of these were tourists but a lot were people from these ex soviet republics who came for work and working in low paid jobs like food delivery etc.

in terms of tourism, as I mentioned many were ex soviet republics visitors but also there were loads of Chinese tourists travelling in big groups.

i expect that’s why tourism in Russia has not really suffered as much during these recent sanctions- because a lot of it was domestic even before the war.

also what I noticed is how much police (militia) there were everywhere. No disorders, no anti social behaviour, no beggars, no homeless people, no drunks.

near Kremlin there was never mobile phone signal. Local taxi drivers told me it was deliberate.

Apologies for the information dump. I am not sure where I’m going with it all. Just some thoughts and observations I’ve had in my head.

Mb76 · 05/01/2023 21:14

Oh and ordinary people (again numerous taxi drivers I’ve chatted to over those years) all loathed Putin, but felt helpless to change anything.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 05/01/2023 22:10

It's really interesting to read you impressions.

I know every country likes to think its the best and The Saviour (except the NL, nothing you can do when you only have one big hills and one cave system and a pile of vulnerable dykes) ... bit the idea of Russia as the Saviour of Europe seems hilarious, overblown and rather pitiful to me. I know that Russia soaked up a lot of German forces at very high cost to itself, but that was with a lot of US hardware support and with a lot of Germans also fighting within europe

TheABC · 05/01/2023 22:13

That's good news on the Bradleys, and there is a general feeling of 'ramping up for spring,' as I doubt we are talking about an instant transfer of equipment. I've just finished reading the Washington Post's comment on training, and if it's true, something bigger is being planned.

"In a shift from training only small units to operate specific weapons systems, the allies are now pulling thousands of Ukrainian soldiers off the front lines for combined maneuver training in Europe."

www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/01/04/ukraine-bradley-fighting-vehicle/

Mb76 · 05/01/2023 22:24

@ReleaseTheDucksOfWar NL is an amazing country, I’ve been fortunate enough to travel across it twice (for work) and hopefully will go back for a holiday in the not too far a future… besides you just can’t get the mature Old Amsterdam cheese in the UK and it’s one of my top favourites πŸ˜‹

Regarding Russia being the saviour of Europe, this is very much still a rhetoric being pushed onto generation after generation of Russians. Dismissing the fact that - allies aside - all of the Soviet republics fought in the war, Ukraine was fully occupied and 11 million Ukrainians died in the war. Apologies I don’t know statistics for other republics’ casualties.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 05/01/2023 23:02

Ukraine was fully occupied and 11 million Ukrainians died in the war.... God. Ukraine has been through the wringer. Russian occupation, Holodomor, the war, Soviet occupation, freedom and now this.