Thread 1 - Lifeboat Muster Point for TalkExiles

[Kucinghitam]

Gather here all ye refugees from the foundering ship of JTT, if ye be in need of "How the heck do I format my post?" "Why can't I edit my typos?" "What do those acronyms mean?" and most importantly, "Where is everybody that I used to know?"

Or just to chat randomly.

Oh and hello Tass!

Thanks, checking in as ex Melpomene.

I read that about the Wellcome over the weekend. While there are problematic elements, surely contextualising them addresses some of the issues, a bit like when the Mayor of Bristol thought thay the Colston statue should be in a.museum with an explanation of the context rather than in the water. Wellcome had mental health/treatment/Bedlam exhibition a while ago that was horrific, but fascinating. Pretending these outrages didn't exist isn't helpful, learning from them can be.

@murasaki Those are my inital thoughts. I have enjoyed the Medicine Man exhibition, bit also see that some contents in their collection are challenging and obviously it is a collection of its time, assembled throigh the lens of a wealthy, white, western man.

However, I can't see why it couldn't be reinterpreted to help us understand the history of medicne and all the prejudices and issues that came along with it (and still exisit today), using some of the more difficult exhibition to help illistrate the issues. If there are some truely troublesome things (human remains, stolen works) then they need to explore returning them as the Horniman Museum are doing with their Benin Bronzes.

Also announcing they are closing a valued permanent exhibition with two days notice and no concrete plans for a refresh leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I agree re reframing the exhibitions, that could be beneficial. I'd enjoy.go9ng back too both to read the new text with the exhibits.

And as a fellow South Londoner, who enjoys the Horniman very much, I think they are doing the right thing. As long as the walrus isn't repatriated, I'm happy!

Good morning All.

Many thanks. I never in a million years thought I'd open a MN account. One is never too old for surprises.

If they were smart, they could use the problematic white male western gaze of the past to address the current outcomes for ethnic minority maternity issues, showing that this white gaze is still a major problem. That would be constructive. But they won't.

Hi Sinner and Mach

@murasaki I think the Horniman have the right approach.

They are not shying away from the reality of their collection but are using it to refocus on engagement with the diverse communities of London and how they respond to the collection. Plus dealing with the more egregious pieces (eg Benin Bronzes).

One comment I will make is these things are never black and white. Frederick Hormlman was a man of his time and how he made his money and how he used it does throw up some uncomfortable issues.

However his legacy enables Londoners of all backgrounds to learn about other cultires and more practically the gardens were a huge gift to Londoners (especially those with little or no outdoor space) especially in lockdown where social and racial inequalities become more stark.

Also they kept their toilets open - which I really really appreciated!

<Waves to all>

Hello. Moving to MN has made me realise how set in my ways I am. My m.o over there was suscribe to thread and lurk. I've managed to watch the original thread and tried to watch this one but it doesn't seem to work. I don't know if you have to post first. Anyway, I'll work it out but my poor brain cells don't like change.

I think that is the main issue, he, like the Wellcome collections, are of their time. While we can agree that a lot of how money was made was abhorrent, it happened. We should be able to talk about why and how, without removing exhibits, just updating the framework for discussion. And returning stolen antiquities where the cultural significance was roundly ignored, as is starting to happen.Maybe with a sign saying we used to have this, with photos, but now we realise why we shouldn't.

And yes to the gardens being a life saver in lockdown for those with no outside space.

Very much my feelings about it - much of medical history (and some current practice) is horrifying. That's an important thing to remember, and to talk about.

One of the things that's stuck with me since my first visit is the gynecological instruments - including a device for 'washing' the version with hydrochloric acid. There's a huge conversation that could be had about medicine's views and treatment of women that could be kicked off by that 1 item. Same with the 'problematic colonial' pictures they've removed. Brushing this stuff under the carpet doesn't help anyone; it stops us learning and progressing.

Of course if there are things like stolen body parts, it would be correct to consider how to remove and return those specific items. But the collection as a whole should be used to show both the wonders and the horrors of the past, and prompt people to think about what things we do now might seem wrong or blinkered to people in future.

'Version' above should read 'cervix'.

I wasn't sure if it was vagina or cervix, but both made me wince.

Either way, it had me crossing my legs!

I’m a trustee at a heritage body and we did an ‘audit’ of our collection after BLM following some public comment on some of the contents. It was eye opening to have a very frank board discussion about what to do with some items, but we decided that curation was key, and that we would reframe some of the objects. We also ran an exhibition on the connections to transatlantic slavery. In that case, the controversial objects were bought or created on the back of the proceeds of slavery, rather than taken from others, so no issues about returning them.

Context moves something from an object to glory in or celebrate to one that can illustrate the shit that happened. Better than just hiding it away.

I think that returning objects may well be a good thing but we can't "repent" for history otherwise we may find that 2040 looks very poorly upon us and what we're up to.

Context moves something from an object to glory in or celebrate to one that can illustrate the shit that happened. Better than just hiding it away.

Yes, this makes so much more sense - use it to teach instead of pretending there’s nothing to see here.

Woot!

Pretending the past didn't happen never works out well.

Here I am clambering abroad, as usual five hours behind everyone else because time zones.

Ah - here everyone is.

Think a Medicine Man exhibition thread would be interesting, and I'm sure there are many Mumsnetter's with interesting perspectives.

Maybe in Talk > Other Stuff > News ?

Seconded. I'd certainly lurk, and maybe even post