Thread 1 - Lifeboat Muster Point for TalkExiles

[Kucinghitam]

Gather here all ye refugees from the foundering ship of JTT, if ye be in need of "How the heck do I format my post?" "Why can't I edit my typos?" "What do those acronyms mean?" and most importantly, "Where is everybody that I used to know?"

Or just to chat randomly.

Thanks for the link to the new thread which I have now posted on.

Hope all are well. I missed what happened last night on the other thread so I won't comment on it. But suffice it to say, on what is after all our lifeboat thread, that I'm very glad a number of men followed us over here and showed their support and solidarity towards us. I'm also grateful to the men - man!? - who stood up for us on the actual board.

I've been reading it and am currently too much of a scaredy cat to add a comment.

That's probably a wise decision, Sinner.

I've mainly got my listening ears on here.

"Evil begins when you start treating people like things"

Pratchett on the money there, as so often.

I think that it's important though to draw a distinction between people doing (and thinking, and saying) bad things, and Bad People.

Some people are just evil. I have no doubt about that. But a lot of people who are generally decent can have odd, and sometimes shocking, blind spots - and it's hard to challenge your own thoughts effectively when everyone else is challenging them very robustly at you.

Although I disagree with Tas that prostitution is complicated, there are aspects of it - and certainly aspect of the discussion (such as the self-deception or outward deception that can result as a trauma-avoidance mechanism) that are not completely straightforward. If you have absorbed the 'believe women' message, then 'believe women, but....' might need a bit of thinking about.

So I hope Tas will reflect - and perhaps come back with questions - rather than running.

But a lot of people who are generally decent can have odd, and sometimes shocking, blind spots - and it's hard to challenge your own thoughts effectively when everyone else is challenging them very robustly at you.

I've often thought that when I see somebody getting spanked (virtually) by the Pit of Vipers on AIBU, and they get stubbornly determined they're NBU. Some people no doubt genuinely won't/can't take on board criticism or alternative viewpoints. But I wonder how many, after the initial humiliation and defensiveness have faded away, do reflect and at least take away something from the experience.

Someone I follow on FB (insufferably intolerant science nerd, I think) used to be a prostitute in one of the legal Australian brothels, and has written a book about it. She sometimes posts extracts, and even though she is now out of it she still explains her experiences as being, if not exactly positive, at least non-negative and with some useful learning points.

But my impression is that she was in a very bad place beforehand. So it would be far better to ensure nobody starts off from a point where joining a brothel represents an improvement on their previous circumstances, rather than taking it as a 'yay for prostitution' example.

There'll always be an exception to every rule. So there'll be maybe 1 in every 100-200 who find being in prostitution financially rewarding/empowering etc. Meanwhile the remaining 99-199 will be suffering horribly. Some of these will be disassociating and won't start to process how damaging it is until years later. However, that 1 who finds it ok will be held up as an example of how it's not that bad really, sanitising the revolting oppression of the rest. Similarly the minority of female violent abusers will be held up to disguise the fact that most people in this category are male. And a transman will be held up to show that not everyone who gives birth is a woman. Whilst I don't want to see minorities excluded or othered, we do also need to find a way to engage meaningfully with a way to talk about a majority experience because denying a majority experience is farcical.

Indeed.

Whilst I don't want to see minorities excluded or othered

There is surely a difference between othering by saying "this should not be as it is. How can I help you?" and othering by saying "this should not be as it is, and you are scum".

If we have lost the ability to describe prostitution as an evil for fear of "othering" (I know this is not what you were saying weaseleyes, but I am hanging my thoughts off it) then, well, I don't have a clue where we are supposed to be.

Some things fucking well should be unacceptable. I mean, really.

At the WEP conference ten days ago Mandu Reid gave a "defund the police" speech. It was deeply embarrassing in its political ignorance. It was also before she came out as part of FoxKiller's faux-feminist initiative and was therefore dishonest in the extreme.

But while it was happening it was kind of interesting. Because what she did was ladle up the kinds of situations where yes, police involvement / criminal proceedings may well not be what anybody sane actually wants (people with hungry children shoplifting food. People with drug issues lurching around on pavements), and then extend that to nobody should call the police, full stop. She actually said, out loud, that in cases of domestic violence the police should not be called (Women's Aid or similar should deal with it). Now I completely agree that if the police leave the scene of a DV incident without giving the victim all the help she may need to get out of that situation (i.e. using specialist DV services) then that is shit work by them. But that is one hell of way away from saying the police should not be called at all.

I think that what I'm seeing is that alongside "prostitution is Work" there are a lot of people, including Mandu Reid, essentially saying "and so so is all crime".

We are going to need a bigger boat.

extend that to nobody should call the police, full stop

As I understand it, the Defund the Police movement began in the US, and rapidly developed in that direction. Partly because they seem to have fewer health/social services available - so people are calling the (free) police for a lot of things for which in the UK we would call an ambulance (free here, expensive there). And partly because the US police have a regrettable tendency to deal with problems by shooting them, often rather indiscriminately.

So I have a lot of sympathy with the underlying sentiment of it being better to direct finding to other services where possible, but I don't think it directly translates to a UK context. Here Reform the Police (While Also Increasing Funding for Alternative and Support Services) is closer to the mark, if not quite as snappy. And it certainly shouldn't mean the police have no role.

Is there somewhere here for science chat? I looked at Geeky Stuff, but that seems to be more IT help than somewhere to put this sort of thing:

retractionwatch.com/2022/12/05/a-paper-used-capital-ts-instead-of-error-bars-but-wait-theres-more/?

My understanding of "defund the police" was about demilitarising the police, making them more of a public service than a paramilitary force. Spend money on recruting beat policemen, not on buying tanks.

Not that I’ve seen @BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn. I would very much participate if you start one though. I’ve spent most of the day examining Plasmodium falciparum and Trypanosoma brucei but have no one to talk to about it.

I have forgotten almost everything I once knew about P falciparum, but am happy to reminded. I'll look for a suitable location for a thread tomorrow.

Excellent. And enjoyed the capital T bars.

I know rather a lot about Plasmodium and would enjoy a thread. Also ha, yes, ChezKuc we had a good cackle about the T bars.

Plasmodium falciparum

Yoinks! There was a year of my life where I lived in greater or lesser fear of that beastie.
^^
^^

Defind the police makes no sense in a UK context as we have policing by consent. Our police are not routinely armed or militarised. (Which is not to say we don't have big issues with the police, just that they are not the same as those in the USA).

It is another case of importing America's social justice discourse. Mainly to our detriment.

When youb ee a lot of social media discourse on things like this you wonder how many people are talking about things like trans rights with no understanding that the UK has a very different context to the USA (eg there are already protections in law here for people who have undergone or are considering gender reassignment).

This might be a good place for science talk: www.mumsnet.com/talk/academics_corner

I've started one. www.mumsnet.com/talk/academics_corner/4693773-in-mice-science-chat

Weird - that's not how the link looked whan I pasted it. I'll try again.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/academics_corner/4693773-in-mice-science-chat

Argh! It looks fine in preview but something happens when I post.

I'll try the embedding thing, but if that doesn't work either it's in academics corner, and it's called In mice.

In mice

Test of different copying method.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/academics_corner/4693773-in-mice-science-chat?