Thread 19 From Trussterfuck to Sunakered

[DuncinToffee]

And so it continues

Previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4661264-thread-18-big-dog-halloween-edition

Don't worry there will be someone along shortly to tell us that Labour have no policies.

yes, my gut reaction to dissolving the HoL isn’t positive. I accept that the checks and balances it’s meant to provide aren’t prone to misuse but I’m not convinced the answer is to dissolve it.

I am also disappointed with his comments on brexit

"There's no case for going back into the EU or going back into the single market," says Keir Starmer, who says that he instead wants "a better Brexit."

Brexit isn't working.

I agree that it’s disappointing he’s so dismissive of rejoining the single market. I can appreciate the pov that we’ve left now and there’s no turning back time but I’m not sure his vision is entirely credible either.

Starmer is running scared of his former Red Wall voters and of the Lexiters in his party. And it's pathetic.

If KS starts up about Brexit, he knows that nobody will vote for him. It's a no brainer

That’s the crux of it I think. But then if he’s not brave enough to lead in a different direction when the countries polling suggests it’s the prime time to do it I don’t think he’s the leader a lot of people are looking for. Certainly nothing he’s said lately inspires me with much hope for the future as far as the shockwaves from brexit go.

I’m prepared to be educated but this feels an awful like the run up to the referendum with a lot of people saying things that can’t possibly back up.

I think he just wants to avoid repeating the last election that was all about Brexit. Personally I think reform of the HoL is well overdue, particularly since the Tories are intent on stuffing it with their cronies. But this, along with private education finance, feels like tinkering round the edges. Having said that, we all know how adept the Tories are at stealing economic policies so it’s probably better that he keeps his powder dry until close to the GE.

Just out of interest , why would anyone want to keep the House of Lords?
I think Sir Keir is being bold and listening to what people think about the rich/poor divide in this country.
Labour are not currently in Government , remember?

The house of Lords do have a functioning reviewing and improving legislation. It is needed imo and I'm not sure about making it an elected body.

@AdamRyan They can't remove the Government from office (pah!) and can only delay, not veto bills.
In the past they may have been listened to but not much notice has been taken of them since Johnson's time .

Genuine question, why don’t you think it should be elected?

Because I would worry about having lords/commons with the same majority party so bad legislation could get through more easily

I think it should be impartial if possible.

I don't think having politically elected PCCs and Mayor's has worked that well either

The Lords is a long way from impartial now. Successive Tory MPs keep filling it with their chums. I think the mayoral system is working brilliantly in the north and it definitely is here - we have a Labour mayor in a Tory stronghold.

I quite like having an unelected house that has the long-term interests of the country at its heart, rather than the short-term interests of the elected house. They balance each other.

Unfortunately it's been filled with people who only have their own interests at their heart. It definitely needs reforming but need to be careful we aren't heading for American style politics.

I also think this is the wrong time and possibly the wrong policy. The country is in a really bad place and tinkering around the edges could possibly do more harm.

I think you’ve summed up my incoherent thoughts on the HoL Littledrummergirl:

I like what the HoL should be vs what it is. I suppose I hold a hope it could be fixed.

I have no objection to an elected second chamber, especially one with a fixed number of seats, but this should only happen in a fully PR system. Under FPTP it would just be more of the same.

Absolutely right @pointythings.

Yes exactly

I have read the Starmer/Brown proposals, do they go into detail of how a replacement 2nd chamber would be elected?

Given that Brexit was supposedly about taking back control and sovereignty what better way to demonstrate it that removing an unelected part of government and replacing it with a democratically elected alternative.
Otherwise all that sovereignty talk looks a little hollow that we removed powers from elected representatives to take back control by giving it to a bunch of Johnsons sleazy mates.

This thread explains it a bit

This morning, Leeds played host to the launch of former Prime Minister Gordon Brown’s report. Let's unpack what was included and what was missed
twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1599803717037228033?t=1kllkoKNznd8ItqWi5mV3g&s=19

*Best for Britain
@BestForBritain
·
2h
Under this plan, the House of Lords and its medieval quirks would be abolished. In its place would be a smaller, directly-elected assembly of regions and nations with a clear role in protecting the Constitution. 6/

I like this. Have thought for ages we'd do better as a more federalised nation, than as mixed bag of some nations devolved from the central power.

It could also address some of the "brexit" type issuesby giving English people who don't live in London some power.

Does need electoral reform though

As if on queue, the Tories go out of their way to demonstrate why Sir Keir's plans are so desperately needed.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63864192

Haha. I hate to say it but the excerpts are making me warm to Hancock. I remember him looking like he wanted to puke at one of the early covid briefings- probably because he'd just heard the 820,000 figure

I still don't understand why there wasn't more fuss about how he was videoed in Whitehall and the video leaked. Seems like a blackmailer paradise which isn't good for government

Hancock is very busy painting himself as a victim here. 'she made me do it'

How? Did Mone have dirt on him (and Gove)?