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Thread 19 From Trussterfuck to Sunakered

996 replies

DuncinToffee · 07/11/2022 19:17

And so it continues

Previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4661264-thread-18-big-dog-halloween-edition

OP posts:
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11
DuncinToffee · 30/11/2022 17:42

Good thread with graphs from Lewis Goodall

twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1597978739903991808?t=5C-F98_JdWLMgxBJBmyfcw&s=19
Intriguing idea that removing VAT exemptions from private schools would be “class war.” Not a term I think is necessarily helpful but since it’s been brought up, here’s an alternative take on class war in modern Britain.

OP posts:
itsgettingweird · 30/11/2022 18:22

I’ve only listened to it but Rishi is starting (!) to really irritate me. He sounds like he’s been on the fringes of the popular group all his life and is revelling in saying things people cheer for. Every thing he says has a ring of ‘did you see what I did then? Aren’t I clever?’. It’s pathetic.

That's a good summary.

itsgettingweird · 30/11/2022 18:23

Keir Starmer’s first question in the Commons today was about Winchester, the prime minister’s private school. It was a question that Tony Blair would never have asked, and not just because Blair went to Fettes, a fee-paying school in Edinburgh. Blair wouldn’t have asked it because he agrees with Rishi Sunak, who said: “This is a country that believes in opportunity not resentment.”
This isn’t a question that can be settled by opinion poll. Some Labour people were delighted that the Daily Mail had used its front page twice this week to attack the party’s policy of charging VAT on school fees. They point to poll findings that suggest the policy is popular, and were crowing that the Mail was giving it free publicity.
The policy is particularly popular if the question is asked about “ending the tax break” for private schools, or even, as Starmer put it today, stopping the government “giving” a school such as Winchester £6m. But “higher taxes on someone else” is always popular in opinion polls, whether it is private schools, oil giants or non-doms. It may be just as significant that other polls find that most people in Britain would send their children to private school if they could afford it.
Starmer’s advisers say that Britain has moved on since Blair’s day. We shall see. The only test is a general election, in which so many other things affect the result that it is not possible to isolate the effect of a single policy.
It is understandable that Starmer failed to resist the subject of taxing school fees, because Michael Gove, the ultra-Blairite cabinet minister, once wrote an article in favour of VAT on fees that used some typically colourful phrases: calling the exemption “egregious state support” and saying, “you could scarcely find a better way of ending burning injustices [the article was written in Theresa May’s time] than scrapping these handouts”.

What was less understandable was Starmer’s decision to personalise his attack on Sunak’s own school, which was a way of trying indirectly to use Sunak’s wealth against him. Ruthless, unpleasant and quite possibly effective.
The prime minister’s counterattack, to blame Starmer for school closures during the pandemic because of his “union paymasters”, on the other hand, was ruthless but ineffective. In the election campaign that is shaping up between Starmer and Sunak, the Labour leader already has two clear lines of attack: “You’re too rich” and “You’re too weak”. I don’t think the first works anything like as well as Starmer’s advisers do, but it helps to paint your opponent as out of touch, especially in hard times.
The second is a work of futurology. I am told that the idea that Sunak is “weak” finds little echo in focus groups of floating voters, but the attack is designed to prepare the ground for the inevitable difficulties the prime minister will face in holding a divided party together in the run-up to an election. It will work in time.
Hence the significance of Starmer’s second batch of questions, designed to exploit Tory divisions over national house-building targets. Only 18 months ago, after the Chesham and Amersham by-election, which the Tories lost to a cynical Lib Dem campaign against “overdevelopment”, Labour was producing posters asking: “Do you want developers building on your green spaces without your say?”
Today, Starmer was offering Sunak Labour support to get his bill through that would allow developers to build on green spaces with less say for local people.

Article above c and p.

itsgettingweird · 30/11/2022 18:25

The rest of the article....

Sunak has little of substance with which to counter-attack. He tried “You wanted Jeremy Corbyn to be prime minister”. Nobody cared. Today it was “union paymasters” and saying Starmer was “too weak to stop his MPs joining picket lines”. Most voters sympathise with striking workers, even if they agree with Sunak that the country cannot afford big pay rises in the public sector.

Boris Johnson had several lines against Starmer that cut through – Captain Hindsight and the liberal leftie lawyer in particular – but Sunak isn’t good at boisterous knockabout, and so ended up making serious arguments that left no impression whatsoever. He is quite right that what really matters on education is that he and Jeremy Hunt are restoring per pupil funding in state schools to 2010 levels, but the government gets no credit for that.
Starmer’s personal attacks and opportunistic positions won the moment in the Commons. I fear that they may also do well in a general election.

DuncinToffee · 30/11/2022 18:37

Thanks itsgettingwierd!

OP posts:
Piggywaspushed · 30/11/2022 18:45

Oh, that union paymasters things went round and round about Covid and school closures, including via Torybots MN. utter tripe, codswallop and nonsense.

For 75 billion 7776 trillion and 99 reasons.

itsgettingweird · 30/11/2022 19:26

Piggywaspushed · 30/11/2022 18:45

Oh, that union paymasters things went round and round about Covid and school closures, including via Torybots MN. utter tripe, codswallop and nonsense.

For 75 billion 7776 trillion and 99 reasons.

Totally.

And it shows up so much when Tory arguments are still "but......l all the things we made up in the past still apply today"

Notonthestairs · 30/11/2022 20:29

If Labour is league with union paymasters who are the Conservatives in hoc to? (Answers on a postcard to a variety of unincorporated associations without don't have to provide details of their founders or donors).

Notonthestairs · 30/11/2022 20:30

Who not without 🙄 oh for an exit button.

L1ttledrummergirl · 30/11/2022 20:52

I've just watched PMQs. Sunak really is a whiny, petulant excuse for a human being. His whinging that Starmer attacked his education when Starmer was asking about how £6m could be better spent. Grow up and answer the fucking question.

I thought the Rashford question was good as well, this along with Starmers approach to the football result last night was a damn sight better than Sunaks derogatory words. He is supposed to be prime minister of Great Britain, not just England.

The union jibes miss every time as most of the population seem to be firmly behind them. I would love to see Labour Party MPs on the picket lines.

ClaudineClare · 30/11/2022 22:58

Notonthestairs · 30/11/2022 20:30

Who not without 🙄 oh for an exit button.

Exit button 😆. That could come in useful in all sorts of ways!

Notonthestairs · 30/11/2022 23:11

I gave up at that point! Grin

DuncinToffee · 01/12/2022 09:25

Starmer seems to have rattled quite a few cages with his latest PMQ performance going by threads on here Smile

OP posts:
Notonthestairs · 01/12/2022 10:58

Yes he's certainly stirred a few pots. There is a lot of chat about why parents can't pay more, very little to defend why individual school deserve charitable status in the first place.

I won't pretend I'm not surprised that Starmer pushed the policy on. It will lose X votes but I assume they've assessed they'll gain elsewhere.

Blossomtoes · 01/12/2022 11:59

I’m very heartened by the recent response to Starmer. Despite his alleged lack of “charisma”, he’s obviously making an impact now he’s not drowned out by the noise of Tory psychodrama. Attlee was a “charisma” free zone, look what his governor achieved.

Notonthestairs · 01/12/2022 14:00

It's not a surprise that Johnson will stand again and I'm sure they can locate a safer seat nearer the time if needs be.

Boris Johnson has told his local Conservative Party he will stand again as an MP at the next election.
The former Prime Minister said he would be standing as the MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip, where he has held the seat since 2015, ahead of the deadline on Monday.
This leaves the door open for him to take part in another leadership contest if Rishi leaves the post.

www.lbc.co.uk/news/boris-johnson-he-will-stand-again-as-an-mp-at-the-next-election/

tobee · 01/12/2022 14:00

Boris Johnson will fight his seat at the next election (according to my Microsoft Start app)

tobee · 01/12/2022 14:00

Snap!

Notonthestairs · 01/12/2022 14:02
Grin
jgw1 · 01/12/2022 15:04

Notonthestairs · 01/12/2022 14:00

It's not a surprise that Johnson will stand again and I'm sure they can locate a safer seat nearer the time if needs be.

Boris Johnson has told his local Conservative Party he will stand again as an MP at the next election.
The former Prime Minister said he would be standing as the MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip, where he has held the seat since 2015, ahead of the deadline on Monday.
This leaves the door open for him to take part in another leadership contest if Rishi leaves the post.

www.lbc.co.uk/news/boris-johnson-he-will-stand-again-as-an-mp-at-the-next-election/

This is excellent news.
Now the good people of Uxbridge just need to do the decent thing.

Blossomtoes · 01/12/2022 15:06

Absolutely. I don’t know which would give me more pleasure on election night - seeing Johnson, Rees Mogg or Braverman kicked out. The hat trick would be ecstasy.

itsgettingweird · 01/12/2022 16:05

Blossomtoes · 01/12/2022 11:59

I’m very heartened by the recent response to Starmer. Despite his alleged lack of “charisma”, he’s obviously making an impact now he’s not drowned out by the noise of Tory psychodrama. Attlee was a “charisma” free zone, look what his governor achieved.

I thought he showed great charisma wednesday. He even laughed after Sunak response to him showing he knew he was winning.

My confidence in him grows weekly.

dontcallmelen · 01/12/2022 16:17

Blossomtoes · 01/12/2022 15:06

Absolutely. I don’t know which would give me more pleasure on election night - seeing Johnson, Rees Mogg or Braverman kicked out. The hat trick would be ecstasy.

Along with Bridgen, Patel, the idiot from stoke who’s name I can’t remember shall return with a few more shortly.

ancientgran · 01/12/2022 16:19

pointythings · 28/11/2022 20:04

@ancientgran your post really resonates. The whole trope that the NHS is weighed down by too many managers is so much nonsense. So many people who have the word 'manager' in their job title actually also carry a full clinical workload! But people don't want to hear that, do they?

Glad it's not just me. It always annoys me as it has just become a "thing" that people say. Funnily enough someone just said it to me yesterday.

LittleBowSheep · 01/12/2022 16:45

Totally agree, I would be utterly delighted if Johnson, Rees-Smug and Braverman lost their seats at the next election.

Can I add a couple more please? Peter Bone (Wellingborough) and Andrew RT Davies (leader of Welsh Conservatives at the Senedd). Despicable creatures.