What's the secret of very high achieving children?

[Starbrightmoonlight]

Is it private school? Cultural capital? Lots of travel? High expectations? Kids expected to work hard at school, parents setting extra work at home? Is money & extracurriculars a factor?
The most high achieving families I know have children attending private school, travel loads, bring the dc to galleries, exhibitions, theatre etc, kids excel in extracurriculars & parents very invested in "expanding" the curriculum themselves... Any thoughts?

Cliche but you can take a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. Dh got to Cambridge from bog standard comp both parents left school at 16 and were blue collar workers. He was very very driven.

Not necessarily, there are many famous families with all the money in the world yet their children are not academic (think ex footballers, ex singers)

I agree. My DS wasn't really interested and gave things up as soon as he was old enough to have an opinion! As a young child (primary age), we involved him in a local swimming club, golf club, musical group, school football team. When he went to secondary he gave it all up and just did the bare minimum at school, no clubs/societies, nothing at all after school or lunchtimes. He went to school, did the work, came home, did his homework, and that was it! He made his own interests which were gaming, programming, lego and robotics - all "solo" interests. He got mostly grade 9s at GCSE and all A* at A level! He did nothing extra at all, just did what he was told in terms of homework, exam revision, etc - he didn't even fully read a single book in his secondary years - even got his grade 7 in Eng Lit by reading nothing by revision guides to "learn" the themes, characters, etc of the set reading! He could be called "lazy" in terms of not doing anything extra, but could be argued the opposite in that he consistently did what he was told to do, by his teachers in all subjects, throughout his secondary school years, which is more than a lot of his peers did who'd frequently only do homework that was to be marked/tested (i.e. the bare minimum they could get away with, and spent their time doing other things instead!).

At Uni, he made loads of friends, very popular, but still no extra-curricular stuff. So it's not held him back, nor affected his qualifications/personal relationships.

A lot of luck!

Supportive parents and decent schools help. So does money.

Going back to the title of the thread, which I think suggests the OP is looking for an ‘answer’ and something parents can do - ‘the secret’…..

I think that parents and their input, and also the impact of money and the opportunities it can buy, is often what results in children who otherwise might have been mediocre, doing very well…even if they aren’t extremely high achieving.

Very high achieving will always by definition be a small number. Many parents would be satisfied with high achieving. And if they could have high achieving and happy kids, most would be thrilled.

Many children are moderately bright. Their environment then determines whether they tip into high achieving or to under performing. The interested parent, the structure and focus, the access to wide interests, holidays, good schools can all tip that kid into high achieving. Many of those who do really well at school, Uni snd in their careers are not super super clever. But equally, many of those kids in a different environment might not do well at all.

The most 'driven to succeed' person I ever knew was a friend at secondary school. She was the type to do the optional homeworks, the type to stay behind and do all the extra-curriculars. She wasn't hothoused by her mum (or dad, but she lived with her mum) but they were in turn both high achievers and gave her a quite unconventional upbringing - lots of cultural city trips and stuff like that. I always knew she'd succeed in anything she turned her hand to; she now has three kids and runs a very successful company.

Normal school, can't remember her uni but I know she got a 2:1. Had she gone to private school I think she would have been even more successful as she would have had all the connections that come with that.

From personal experience: immigrant parents without much money.

Engaged parents who don't pile pressure on

Luck of the draw.

GcAcademic, I agree that this is often a factor.
If you head to the Elevenplus Forum website, the no of driven immigrant parents who will move heaven and earth to be their kids into the top super state selective grammars is amazing. The work ethic if some of the families is both astounding, impressive and sometimes worrying too. Some children grow up in a culture of extremely hard academic work in terms of hours and expectations, which are not common to this country. And there’s no doubt that working extremely hard and growing up in a culture of expectation and pressure will yield lots of high achieving individuals. There might be lots of problems that arise from this too, but I’m not sure if there are more or less MH issues than would statistically be the norm or not.

I think there’s absolutely something about being an immigrant….not just here but in any part of the world. Often the effort to be an immigrant and the barriers that have to be overcome are huge and speak of a huge level of determination and commitment. When people have travelled to seek a better life for themselves and their children, often the effort and work they are prepared to out in, far exceeds the norm of that country. There’s a belief that the opportunities are there for those who work extremely hard….and you just have to be prepared to do it and to make your kids do it. Culturally, most native born Brits would bauble at the idea of small kids working 6 hours a day at the weekend or through the holidays, or tutoring intensively for 4 years before eleven plus. Attitudes towards childhood can be different and hopes and aspirations different too.

It’s interesting, because often the children of those who have worked so hard to become a success themselves, or certainly the third generation who benefit from the labours of their parents and grandparents and have more offered to them on a plate (think private education, heaps of expensive extra curriculars offered) often lack the drive if their parents and grandparents and don’t make the use of the opportunities offered to them, that their parents would have loved to have. For some, having struggled is a huge incentive to work or to give more opportunities. To their kids, which those who haven’t had the struggle simply lack.

Lots of factors but the most important factor is the genetics.

For me, it was that having an education and doing well at school was non-negotiable, in the same way as brushing your teeth every morning is.

Yes I am the child of immigrants and I guess yes you could call it pressure but I don't think I necessarily felt pressured in a bad way. I was taught that being a high achiever is a priority and thought nothing of revising 10+ hours a day for my GCSEs and A-levels, because I myself wanted a place at a good uni doing a respectable degree and I wanted to do my parents proud.

@grapehyacinthisactuallyblue do you think the current cabinet (90% privately educated or something like that) have achieved because of genetics or privilege?

I agree, with our DS, doing his homework was non-negotiable, in just the same way as brushing his teeth, putting on the car seat belt, etc. It was non negotiable from the moment he first got some at primary school, and we made him do it after tea, before he could have his evening "fun" time. That set him with a good habit that he continued right through secondary school. Homework came first, fun came after. I honestly don't think he'd even have considered not doing his homework, even in his mid teens, when he'd started pushing boundaries in other ways. Now at Uni, he makes sure he prioritises his course work, weekly online quizzes, etc., and has never missed a single "face to face" seminar, lecture nor workshop - it's ingrained in him to do what is asked of him.

@Kazzyhoward I did go a bit rogue in my uni years and prioritised my social life for a year or two! But when it mattered, I'd always get my work done to a high standard.

Oh also, reading. My mum instilled a love of reading in me from a very very young age and I strongly believe this fuelled my thirst for learning. I'd read the dictionary to learn new words for fun ffs 😂 and a highlight of the week for me would be a trip to the library. I was quite horrified to learn that some kids in my class never read unless it was for homework.

There is more than one way to skin a cat though.

For my kids HW was optional really, because I always said education was offered and it was up to them if they chose to learn/engage. I expected them to do it, because the rational choice is to make the most of what is on offer, but it was up to them and I would not have forced them. I have always been impressed by their own efforts and by praising this whenever I saw it I think they got the message.

I think that's a very short sighted and limited definition of success. Can't you see any further ahead than that? Can't you consider the issue of success on a deeper level?

Look around at the people you know - who do you really think is "successful"?

And you don't think the arrival of social media, smart phones, online bullying, websites promoting anorexia, self harm & suicide have anything to do with the rise in MH? These weren't there 30 years ago but aspirational parents have also existed.. My sister is a primary teacher who says lots of kids are unable to function due to Minecraft etc, they're gaming all evening late into the night & arrive into schools like zombies. To me all I have listed is alot more the cause of mental health issues in children.

I'm confused by this. So would you rather your child was average, academically? A child can surely be a high achiever yet 'normal' in every other way. My child's father was academically a high achiever throughout childhood and had the same hobbies and interests as his siblings.

I think parental pressure is a big factor. As society becomes less equal, it becomes more important to 'succeed' as not succeeding has bigger implications. The increasing gap between rich and poor is something that puts pressure on parents to put pressure on kids.

'Aspirational' parents have always existed but the general pressure on kids is much higher than it was thirty years ago.

I actually don’t think parents have a realistic view of what success is these days. The people who earn the most and have transferable skills, and therefore a wider choice of jobs, aren’t doctors/engineers/lawyers any more. They’re mainly people who work in IT, project management etc. I think a lot of parents are pushing their kids towards traditional academic success for roles that are no longer as lucrative as they once were, the job stress is still there however.

Surely intelligence/ being bright is a very small part of success.

I think there are lots of factors, which will vary in different cases, and include genetics, schooling, opportunities, parental influence. I think athletic or musical success are uncommon or unlikely without considerable parental input.

Some hot housed children of tiger mums rebel and end up not living up to childhood expectations.

And the child themselves is a variable no one can account for.

I have definitely given birth to a genetic aberration. Watching gogglebox with DD 2 there was discussion of news related to the minimum wage. Two of the GGB teens giggled and said "minimum wage equals minimum effort from me". DD2 and I laughed in agreement. DD1 in her primmest voice said "I'd never do that as I always do my best otherwise you are wasting your time and might as well not have bothered doing it in the first place"
I have no idea where she gets her drive and ambition from. We have helped in many ways with her upbringing and schooling but that attitude is her own and she's always been strong willed and determined. She's not always easy to live with as she pursues her goals and we all trail along in her wake. But doing her best all the time means a string of A*s and a 1st from a top university and career opportunities opening up for her. DD2 is a far more empathetic and easy character to be around and hopefully she'll find her path too. She can also be determined in her quiet way but without steam rollering over everyone else along the way.
If it's genetics I can't identify anyone on either side of the family as a source of the gene.

@Cavviesarethebest

Maybe my definition of high achieving is different from you. So, in your world, be in the cabinet is the height of achievement?

The secret is a good relationship between parents, parents' trust for their children, parents' optimistic attitude, humour, lots of reading and children's native intelligence. The same for the single parent. A good relationship and stable safe home environment are the key.