What's the secret of very high achieving children?

[Starbrightmoonlight]

Is it private school? Cultural capital? Lots of travel? High expectations? Kids expected to work hard at school, parents setting extra work at home? Is money & extracurriculars a factor?
The most high achieving families I know have children attending private school, travel loads, bring the dc to galleries, exhibitions, theatre etc, kids excel in extracurriculars & parents very invested in "expanding" the curriculum themselves... Any thoughts?

First off the child has to want and be willing to work hard.
Second it helps if the parents are graduates and value education.
Socioeconomic factors in too - certainly does not have to be a private education, but the resources to live where the state schools are good and for extracurricular activities that make a person confident and well rounded.
There are always examples of people who managed to succeed against many factors, but it definitely is more likely if they have two or more of the above.

’Range’ by David Epstein contrasts the upbringings of Tiger Woods and Roger Federer. I know which outcome I prefer.

As you said it's a deeper point. These countries don't have a welfare system so if you don't achieve you're basically going to live a life of poverty...

It's interesting as I'm a second gen SE Asian and I would say after genetics, parental expectation is top of the list. Many of us lived in very overcrowded homes, had parents with no formal education, zero extracurriculars (unless you count going to the mosque daily to learn Quran 😁) and many of our parents couldn't support us in our education due to lack of the language. What we knew though was "education is the key". A common phrase was that "the idea of 'doing what makes you happy' is the preserve of the rich'. A good education was seen as being a precursor to happiness. I used to get so shocked when my (white) friends got 60% in an exam and their parents thought that was brilliant, even though they hadn't revised.

There's a really good talk by Martin Lewis about the 4 keys to success:

Talent
Hard Work
Focus
Luck

cdn.jwplayer.com/previews/iscQ91CZ

Sorry, this link is better: blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2017/08/martin-lewis-four-things-need-successful/

People are focusing on wealth and education etc, which is correct, but there's a couple of things that help generally:

• knowing how to go about solving a problem - e.g. Sources of information and help. Most problems can be solved, but a lot of less well off people don't always have the support in learning how to handle situations to a good outcome.

• delaying gratification. Huge one for financial security long term. Helping kids learn to delay gratification will help them work to achieve long term goals, instead of immediate rewards.

Those two skills are not only important to handling daily life, but are very valuable to employers.

No, it's not quite that, OP. It's the fact that there are opportunities now that didn't exist few generations ago and therefore there's a mentality of high achievers. In this country current generations don't understand it because of different historical, political and consequently economic circumstances.

DC1 is very high achieving, set for pretty much all 9's at GCSE, plays 3 instruments, plays sport at a very high standard, does a lot of extra curriculum, is sports captain at school and head girl. We have never pushed her, she was born like this. She doesn't go to a private school (her school is in the 'requires improving' category and has been for a number of years) and, apart from having lessons for 1 instrument - she's self taught in the other 2 - hasn't had private tutoring. She is naturally academically bright and very socially adept.

DC2 is high achieving but not to the level of DC1. He's at a RG uni but refuses to get involved in anything extra curriculum. He played sport up until he was 16 then dropped out. He's always done the minimum to get by but put the effort in when it was really needed like his A Levels. Again, no private school and no tutoring.

They've had pretty similar upbringings. We're middle class, have decent incomes and I work part time. We don't feel like we've pushed our kids but we've praised them when they've achieved, picked them up when they've fallen, and generally tried to support them in whatever they've wanted to do. I can see how having money helps as I come from a pretty impoverished background which created a lot of stress at home and where academic achievement was never a priority. We've never once told our kids that they've needed to do homework, they've both automatically gotten on with it. We read a lot to them when they were younger, took them to art galleries and museums etc (can't say with my son was enthusiastic). We didn't travel extensively as we didn't have the finances.

But - and to me this is the interesting thing - my husband went from a pretty run down comprehensive to one of the highest rated universities in the country and I came from a very dysfunctional family, full of emotional neglect and abuse / aggression, but managed to get to uni and then became really focused on achieving when I got into a career.

So, from my experience, I'd say there's something innate in high achievers but it helps if you've got parental/guardian support. Of course, it remains to be seen if my kids, particularly my daughter, stay this high achieving throughout her life.

My DC went to Secondary Modern School.Passed 3 A levels in Science in 6th form and has gone on to recieve Masters degree in Science From a RG uni .Ordinary family ,lots of trips Theatre .days out in London and elsewhere .Lots of activities and a Tutor as well for a while .It can be done

@thecatsthecats

Agree with both those point's.
There can be a feeling of hopelessness and non problem solving.

Also the delayed gratification is huge!!

In our case, DD1 (17) is a very high achiever and I would say it’s mainly of her own doing. She is incredibly tenacious and motivated, conscientious and has a very strong work ethic. She is naturally very intelligent which is of course relevant, and was brought up to be interested in things and to experience things, but the actual achievement side of things (10 grade 9s in this summer’s GCSEs, for example), is down to her. She went to a normal state secondary school btw.

Intelligence and drive are important, but they can both be cultivated and given direction.

To a certain extent personality of the individual child plays a part.

To a certain extent, realistic encouragement from parents to look to the future comes into it.

To a large extent, praising of persistence, determination, consistency, thoughtful planning of assignments, and good time management come into it. Praising effort, not final results of projects is very important because children become aware of effort and start to consciously organize themselves and become methodical in their approach to work.

Something along the lines of - "You seem really interested in the Tudors - do you think you'd like to study history in university? It could take you in many directions after you graduate - masters in library science, archival studies, teaching, TV news production, a lot of history grads end up in law..."
Or - "It looks like maths and art are your strong suits, DD. Maybe have a think about architecture?"

Keeping their eyes on the prize by reminding them of the future helps them stay focused on the day to day slog.

Staying interested in their creativity, interests, tastes in books, music, celebrities, sports, hobbies, TV programmes, movies, tiktok stuff, etc is really important too. They need to feel you are interested in them and 'get' them as individuals. Put their art on the walls.

I would also say parental/ family engagement with the resources the local community offers is important. If you see little competitions advertised - colouring competitions, poster competitions, poetry, etc, encourage your children to enter.

Going to the library in particular shows them that you value the life of the mind. I think children need to see their parents reading and being curious about the world. Having books at home makes them part of the backdrop of their lives.

You don't have to travel or spend money on trips to museums, etc.

Having conversations with your children about their interests, their friends, and what they're reading or listening to or learning in school is really, really important.

@NoNameNowAgain

For those of us who have not read this book could you give a quick run down please?

No idea? Both our DDs were clever enough to get into grammar school. DD1 was selectively lazy - got As and A*s in the subjects that interested her, and wasn't remotely bothered about only getting Bs and a couple of Cs in everything else. She's now at Art School, doing a terribly middle class, blonde, swishy hair arty degree - but freely admits all she really wants to do is live in the Cotswolds, keep ducks and potter around. And, I fully predict she will and be blissfully happy.

DD2 is the polar opposite. Extremely ambitious and very driven. Straight As at GCSE and A Level. Always very busy, rushing here and there - often has 2 part time jobs. Now at a RG university and fully intends to be Chief Economist by the age of 30!

Both identical upbringings. Very similar genes and DNA. A mystery.

Parents and home life etc. Generally parents who debate different issues, get their kids interested in different things, encourage reading... the most high achieving people I know came from quite disadvantaged backgrounds but had parents who encouraged them and there were lots of books in the house and they had an interest in current affairs for example. Whereas I went to a private school and a lot of the parents were quite lazy if I'm honest and never really spent time encouraging their kids.

The most successful people I know have sadly had terrible upbringings and have had to fight tooth and nail to get where they are. The people with good upbringings have all got good jobs and happy lives but I wouldn’t necessarily call them high achievers. I think having drive and ambition is a large part of it and those with comfortable upbringings don’t seem to have that burning need to achieve.

I am a very relaxed parent, both of mind are high achieving, maybe it has something to do with then losing a parent young in life, l read one in 3 of USA presidents lost a parent whilst young. Overcoming adversity can be a factor.

I have a mixture of both, two doing really well, one of whom is now in university and one who is doing ok. They all had the same opportunities growing up, all in mainstream schools, no extra curricular stuff past after school clubs and no tutoring or travelling around the world.
I'll say this about my eldest though, the knowledge just seemed to be there, some things I know they've e never come across but just seem to know and understand. Even thi GS like reading and computing they picked up really easily, surprised the teachers and us.
I feel like a fraud when people congratulate me, I've not done anything special to get him to where he is at, especially in sats, all his teachers congratulating me on the playground when he was in year 6 and I didn't know how to deal with that as it was all him and them.

Them, not then.

Yes, this is why I'm not anti help for people on lower incomes, but I do kind of fight shy on benefits.

I've seen absolutely brilliant work in schools where they have no homework for the kids, but skills sessions for the parents. The kids automatically benefit as their parents pass on how to solve problems rather than living with dependence on the next payout.

One of my close friends has 4 children. Eldest in her third year in Oxford, the second just starting uni after getting all As and the third has just passed all her GCSEs with As. (Youngest is 7).
Her children are all so intelligent and passionate about many things. The eldest especially will go far.
She was a single mother to the three eldest for a time, never paid any CMS for them by the dead beat father, house repossessed years ago, lives in a rented terrace, never holidays abroad (lots of uk holidays when they can), and definitely do not have lots of money. I said how proud she must be of her kids and did she have any tips for me (my son is 4!) and she said she has always read to them, constantly from when they were little, lots of books, encouraged them to find their passions and also know their worth and don’t settle for less.
Its definitely not always money.

@teathyme
I'm Irish, from a family background where 'education is key'. I agree that family culture is really important. It can be a reflection of the family's wider culture.

I see a lot of very successful Nigerian, Russian, Ghanaian, Indian, Korean, English/Scottish, Chinese, Jewish (both American and from Russia) and Irish families in the US community where I live. I remember getting the academic catalogue and school handbook from the local high school and reading them cover to cover when DD1 was about to embark on her four years of high school. Years later I learned from immigrant friends that they had done the same. We all had a good old chuckle about our diligence in attending to this 'homework'.

My BIL is a high achiever, he attributes it to having the box room as a kid. It meant he worked his arse off to get to university and go into finance because he didn’t want to live in the box room in his 20s.

two of my kids share a bedroom and the other has a box room. They moan about wanting bigger or their own bedrooms, I tell them they need to Work hard and make something of themselves if they want somewhere bigger to live. They know they can live at home but I’m sure no one really wants to be stuck at home sharing a bedroom in their 20s.

I also try to do cultural activities and God knows my home must be filled with hundreds of books.

I guess what I’m trying to say is I believe
don’t make life too comfortable that they don’t have to try. Also make sure they have plenty of opportunities to read/explore the world and careers beyond their own small bubble.

The most academically high achieving family I know used tutors and top private schools. They have said to me in the past you get what you pay for.