What's the secret of very high achieving children?

[Starbrightmoonlight]

Is it private school? Cultural capital? Lots of travel? High expectations? Kids expected to work hard at school, parents setting extra work at home? Is money & extracurriculars a factor?
The most high achieving families I know have children attending private school, travel loads, bring the dc to galleries, exhibitions, theatre etc, kids excel in extracurriculars & parents very invested in "expanding" the curriculum themselves... Any thoughts?

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But a lot of those things you mention are far easier with money.
For a start most theatres, museums etc cost money. There is also for many the travel to get there and the time and energy.
The time and energy to do things is often linked to money too. More money can mean more space for the child to do their homework, more time for a parent to help with homework or activities because they aren't working jobs back to back to pay the heating bills etc.
Money helps make things easier. Pretending it doesn't help doesn't help anyone.

Both DS's have PhDs and work in universities. They went to the local comp - I don't agree with private education.

We took them to all the places mentioned in the OP and tried to give them a varied and interesting childhood.

Both were lucky to be born very clever but their own work ethic brought them their success.

I think it is a lot more down to innate ability than people like to admit. That's not to say that lack of support and difficult circumstances don't limit students with a lot of inate ability, though.

But:

-If you find it easy to sit and concentrate, you are naturally praised for this and receive a lot of positive reinforcement from an early age.
-If you find school generally easy, then you will likely enjoy it more, and develop a love for learning.
-If you do well on assessments, you will receive a lot of praise and so assessments don't become such a daunting, scary thing.
-Because you're getting all this positive reinforcement, and you don't find studying difficult, you're more willing to study, and it becomes a virtuous circle. This might be supported by tutors/parents etc, but the student will enjoy engaging with them.
-Because you see yourself as "clever", you don't find difficult things so daunting- you know you normally grasp them, so you're willing to put the work in.

This sort of child, given access to good schools and with good support will usually do well and achieve pretty high exam results.

Equally, if as a young child, you find it harder to sit and concentrate, and you have some early negative results- it's much more likely you will switch off from education, or not have such an interest in it. Therefore, engaging with a tutor will feel more like a chore or a punishment, and you may not see such immediate results.

The right kind of teaching will obviously make a difference to this sort of student, but real hot housing will make them miserable.

So I do think innate early intelligence, good concentration, and personality all have an impact, regardless of the opportunities given.

Time, money and support. I think it’s also cultural Growing up in a household that values learning and also a lot of people say reading to children and making sure the children read. It’s difficult because some kids just find learning so hard and a lot of parents don’t have the time to force kids to do homework or read. Agree with the poster that says more to life than excelling academically. Other skills and attributes need to be nurtured as well. IMO you need to teach how to be a functioning human in society.

I have one very high achiever, very ambitious and self motivated. The other quite average. Both brought up the same, same school, very different personalities.
For what it’s worth, the high achiever has less capacity for happiness and worries me more.

I’m afraid I think a lot of it is innate.

Genes.

Reading. Reading a lot for pleasure in their spare time.

My brother and I are both "high achieving". We're also both happy.
There wasn't much money growing up, state education and limited travel, but both our parents are highly intelligent however had limited opportunities themselves in childhood.

We were encouraged to follow our interests, spoken to about the world, politics, history etc and encouraged to read widely. Effort was also encouraged as well as achievements. E.g. I was praised more for trying hard at PE which I found difficult, than I was for getting A* in advanced maths, which I found easy. We did get dragged around all sorts of museums and things too. However when it came to choosing what to do with our lives it was very much - pick something you're good at but also something you enjoy. There was no pushing into high profile careers just for the sake of it.

So I think a bit of genetics, luck and good parenting. Not necessarily having loads of money, but having parents who can afford to spend time with you definitely

Intelligence and personality. We've got one super high achieving and one happy go lucky child. They will both find success in their own way.

I think being driven is innate. You’ve got to want to work hard and to succeed. Private schools and theatre trips won’t make any difference.

I also agree with you OP re cultural background, from personal experience. I think that's a deeper point though, it's about being brought up in societies where you must be driven, competitive, hardworking, where good education and grades are huge door openers and considered vital, or by parents originating from those societies. This isn't a predominant attitude in the UK as a result of it being on the whole a far more privileged (and relaxed) country, but this attitude is present here too amongst some of the underprivileged (I hate that word, but for lack of a better contrasting description I'll use it) families.

I teach music.
Genetics definitely plays a role - the children from musical families learn faster and do better. This might not be genetics alone, but might be that the child has grown up from a very early age listening to people playing music, singing with parents etc.

Parental support - children from non-musical families generally do well if the parent enables good practice habits - eg. helping the child to establish a routine; reminding the child that it is time to practise; listening to the child play and offering encouragement; checking the child is practising what they have been asked and not just rattling off favourite pieces; taking the child to concerts

Discipline - a word which a lot of people don't like as they associate it with punishment. I mean the discipline of sticking to a routine; practising the bits you can't do rather than just playing through and skipping over them; practising things you don't like - eg. scales, or pieces you have been given which aren't particularly to your taste.
Discipline starts with parents helping their young child get into a routine and then gradually changes over to self-discipline when the child is a bit older and is responsible for their own routine.

Interest and desire to learn - without this, nothing works. The child has to want to learn the instrument.

What doesn't work is parents saying "It's just for fun", "It's got to be fun"; "It's their free time". Unfortunately learning an instrument isn't always fun - sometimes it's hard work and you have to battle through it. There is a balance to be had between parents being overbearing and pushing too hard and the "fun" brigade.

A child also has no chance if it is chaotic at home and there is nowhere to practise without a TV blaring in the background; family members coming and going; unsuitable instruments; lack of interest from parents; lack of routine - eg. practise time is at x o'clock 5 days a week.
The same applies to academic success too - home life needs to be stable and set up for learning.

TL:DR. For musical success an innate musical talent is necessary but discipline, routine and parental involvement/support are necessary.

We’re all very high achieving siblings - five of us - and we had parents who were mostly negligent except for studies where we would get tutors for every exam. We all had wildly different results and academic abilities, but we’re all now shining in our chosen careers (law/ IT/ accounting/ healthcare/ business - we are all in different fields). There was no time for extra curriculars as there was no one available to drive us around, but we lived in a home full of books and lots of outdoor play space.

My parents were both high achieving though, and I think part of that ambition comes through. And being avid readers helps.

that said, I think this is a double edged sword. We’ve all always struggled emotionally and it has taken years of therapy to stop relying on external validation (‘success’) to stop feeling worthy of rest or love.

I think it's a combo of intelligence but also drive.

My eldest is very bright. She's likely to get all 9s at gcse etc. But she's not very driven. Her main aim is to be a writer and illustrator of books - insofar as she's expressed any thoughts about the future at all! She's quite quiet and introverted although does have a small group of close friends.

My youngest is bright enough but not standout in the way that eldest is. However he is much more driven, at 11 already wondering which unis are "good" and what kind of jobs are high status etc. he is extrovert and has loads of friends and makes new friends wherever he goes. He likes to be with people and doing activities.

Who can tell which of them will be the more successful in life - if you can even measure that anyway.

I was a high achiever and my secret was undiagnosed adhd and rock bottom self esteem. I’m doing my best to try and raise well rounded, content dc who won’t burn out in their twenties.

What @AthenaPopodopolous and @Phrenologistsfinger said. My parents achieved well despite coming from horrific abuse and poverty, they both had a strong drive to get away from their home lives.
Me and my sister did well, not insanely successful but both good jobs and my sister is starting to be recognised for her achievements in her field. We had a lot of stability, love and effort. Another friend is a PHD level expert in his field, he came from a single parent (mother) household and very little money.

I also know people who have had lots of privilege and success.

It's hard to say for definite although I'm sure money and family status makes it a lot easier to not have to try that bit harder than some do

It's down to them. You can have two dc with the same experiences and they can be very different. I have one high flyer dc and one middling along.

My dc who is middling and doesn't particularly like school is much better socially. He fits in whereas my academic one loves being the best in all that she does.

Oh and as @CornishGem1975 says, I have friends who family have pushed them to the extremes and they are very successful money wise and career wise but barely see their families and daren't challenge anything they say. So they just stay away to prevent drama

My eldest, 12 x grade 9 GCSE's, all A* Alevels, currently at very top UK university studying a STEM subject. White, British, state educated, doesn't play an instrument, did some extra curricular sport. Does not come from a family with degrees (I got one in my 40's, but the only one who studied in both sides of the family) and we self identify as middle class, but working class backgrounds.
Middle child just got a grade average at 8.8 at GCSE's - now just started 6th form.

How did they do it? - natural intelligence and curiosity. As parents we engaged from when a baby, lots of talking, playing, encouraging. We eat together, show LOTS of interest in them and what interests them (yes, we've had lots of boring chats over the years but it's stuff that's important to them).

Mine have been through the grammar school system, I was truly shocked at how many parents tutor their kids to within an inch of their lives - we haven't. I also see how many kids (their friends) come from families where parents adopt a dictatorial approach. So many of these kids also feel resentful. Mine understand it takes effort if you want to achieve.

We're lucky that ours are clever, curious, have high values and goals. We've told them to aim for their dreams and haven't (outwardly) doubted any aspect of their ability. This was important, at 17 I wanted to buck the trend of my family and go to uni but was told "you're not clever enough and we're not that type of family". So with my kids - no crapping on their dreams. We also have ADHD and ASD to contend with. Eldest will go into hyper focus on anything maths.

Reading is definitely one of them. DD1 "inhales" books according to one of her English teachers. She did science and maths A levels and got 4x Astar and is now at a top Uni, doing very well.

Essentially with all the reading and watching documentaries (tv and YouTube) she spends hours educating herself. She also loves museums of any kind. Her general knowledge is huge .

@Starbrightmoonlight ..what do mean by high achieving though?

DH had all that and I did ,some of it and neither of us have high achieving status in that regard.

Sometimes it's not what the parents do the child is just it. .my older DC is so far an excellent student, whether she goes onto a high achieving career I don't know because she needs confidence.

Already however she's more rich in culture, widely read, seen more art that many adults I know.

Even if she never did anything further.

I hope in terms of having a richer internal life and being able to draw enjoyment from culture she is high achieving in that sense.

If high achieving means earning well or having lot's of money we could attribute high achieving to that lottery winner that won a huge amount and bought misery to his neighbours.

Money isn't always a predictor- plenty of Tim- 'nice but dim' out there

I don't push or pressure DD in any way, I'm sure there Dc like mine who would do well anyway but the parents think it's their strict rules or pushing them that made them a success.

Genetics - not just talent or intelligence but also drive.

Access to opportunities - DH isn't first really good at maths person in his family but is first who had opportunity to get to University and do something more with that talent.

Support - if there are issues with learning - holes or initial problems - state system often relies on families or if lucky a school program/teacher to fill in gaps so kids can progress to widen experiences of world with extra curriculum opportunities or visits. When mine did Roman's we went to nearby roman ruins - paid and unpaid - found out roman books and watch TV programs on them but early stepped in with reading basic maths and spelling support - children without that help often seemed to stay in lower sets.

Possibly up bring - soem evidence praising effort rather than innate abilities gets children to achieve more.

Public schools often have many opportunities on tap - even state schools/areas vary as it what additional experiences are easy to access.

Money and social capital often make it easier to get further with less innate talents. Picking up languages is easier if parenst can pay for additional classes - more obvious benefit if they travel to other countries or have family or others they encounter frequently who speak them - doesn't mean children without that can't do it just that it's harder to achieve.