What's the secret of very high achieving children?

[Starbrightmoonlight]

Is it private school? Cultural capital? Lots of travel? High expectations? Kids expected to work hard at school, parents setting extra work at home? Is money & extracurriculars a factor?
The most high achieving families I know have children attending private school, travel loads, bring the dc to galleries, exhibitions, theatre etc, kids excel in extracurriculars & parents very invested in "expanding" the curriculum themselves... Any thoughts?

Self made high earning usually requires you to achieve something - but you are right it’s not Oxbridge- mind you I know people who achieved that and not much else in their lives sadly.

I’m a high achiever and not only did my parents not read to me, check my homework (or provide a quiet place to do it), ‘expand the curriculum’, encourage me to work at school, or send me to a half-decent one — and in fact they discouraged the idea of university, because they’d never met anyone who’d attended one, were unaware of grants and scholarships and thought it was ‘only for rich people’ — but they were both largely illiterate, and had themselves left school at 12, as their earnings were needed. I went to Oxford on a scholarship.

I don’t see a genetic component, mainly because I don’t think anyone in my family ever had the education to reach whatever potential they may have had. Certainly the marriage and census records I’ve found show high levels of illiteracy.

And dh is the classic high achiever - his Dad shared his obsession with physics but that was it - nothing else, it went to a bog standard Comp - actually it might have been worse than that, he was their first and only to go to Oxbridge - he's a hard worker, very resilient, open-minded, incredibly generous, with masses of empathy - his innate qualities helped him succeed in a professional environment.

I don’t see a genetic component, mainly because I don’t think anyone in my family ever had the education to reach whatever potential they may have had

How does the fact that your family historically had to leave school early, so weren't educated or in a number of cases literate, mean that none were bright and capable of high achievement had their social circumstances been different?

I struggle to explain how my family can have broken the record for siblings getting into Oxford without being born pretty intelligent, since they all had the same lack of gallery visits/ lack of academic pressure intervention from me. Once I had got through the reading stage in Y1 or whenever it was, it was over to them. None are genius, just all clearly clever and 'high achieving' for the purposes of this thread. They also went for subjects across the spectrum, so there's no particular one strength. I sometimes feel exhausted just reading on the education threads about what is apparently required to get into Oxford or Cambridge or med school or Magic Circle firms or whatever. A fair bit of nonsense gets peddled on those threads. Mine were undoubtedly lucky with their local school however. Poor schools can kill off any potential a student might have.

@Q2C4

I don't think that's true at all, very generalised.
Many families share and talk at other times rather than eating..

@thecatsthecats i saw amazing program on families being trained and supported with children who struggled in school And it was amazing.

Most successful person I know in terms of highest money earned ( multi millions) but also life Satisfaction was early school leaver and had no parental support or guidance at all..
Preparation and luck.

The other was df again no parental support at all but thankfully his primary school supported him to get 11+.

Another had to leave home early.

Maybe what we do doesn't matter one jot.

Except paying for access to music lessons

@goodbyestranger

School is of course hugely important, they would have needed to know about Oxbridge to get into it , and support because their stuff is at a different time.

School is of course hugely important, they would have needed to know about Oxbridge to get into it , and support because their stuff is at a different time

I'm not quite sure what the implication is here. These things are for the school, not parents. My DC all went to the same grammar school and the school was very familiar with the Oxbridge entrance process and early entry. They needed no parental support whatsoever.

My DH was one of those children. His parents weren't wealthy but they poures enormous efforts into making sure he worked hard and eventually won a 100% scholarship to private school and he went from there to oxford.

They achieved it by making sure he equated academic success with being a worthwhile and lovable person, and consciously withdrawing affection in the event of anything less than full marks, and lavishing praise and attention whenever he got top grades.

Needless to say this has totally fucked him up mentally and emotionally and he has long term depression and poor mental health generally. He has a fairly decent middle-ranking civil service job where his pathological abhorence of mistakes and imperfections are channelled fairly productively but he's certainly not any happier than he would have been if his parents hadn't been so fixated on him being a high achiever.

But the fact of a grammar school doesn't equate to guaranteed success at getting into Oxbridge. In any one year out of those who apply from that school, more will get rejected than get an offer. So that brings one back to natural intelligence, or a way of thinking, surely?

Those things are for good schools, which not all children (via parents) have access to

@TheHouseonHauntedHill yes of course families can sit down together and talk without eating but just from personal experience I'd hazard a guess that that is rarer than families sitting down to eat together. When do people have the time to sit down together if not at meal times?

Eating together is just one example - there are lots of others but they all point to the same thing, which is the level of family support for and interest in a child's education. Contrast this with families who discourage children from having books in the house, or from doing their homework.

My DC went to the school local to the house I'd lived in for a very long time before the first was born, so I did nothing to alter their educational course on that front. I attribute a lot to the school - particularly given the lack of parental input - and have already said that school is key. That doesn't make the parents key in school choice. Some people just live where they live and go to the best school that is practical for them to get to, and where their DC is offered a place.

I'm not quite sure what the implication is here. These things are for the school, not parents. My DC all went to the same grammar school and the school was very familiar with the Oxbridge entrance process and early entry. They needed no parental support whatsoever

and if your DC hadn’t lived in a grammar area and had gone to a mixed ability comp?

private schools and grammar schools will be very familiar with the process and will be experienced at identifying and assisting those children who may want to apply.

if the school is a mixed comp where it’s rare a child even applies, let alone gets in, they aren’t going to hold the “interested in oxbridge” talks for students and parents, identify and walk potential students through the application process.

so how does a kid from such a school realise they need to have their application sorted and in by September, and not December like all the other kids? When I applied to uni it was never mentioned, and I remember thinking when I heard the year’s posh kid saying he already had his application in early why has he done that? Then when I found out it was because of oxbridge thinking how did he know and why did no one tell me?

one of my friends kids ended up taking a year out because they missed the oxbridge deadline because no one had told them.

and if your DC hadn’t lived in a grammar area and had gone to a mixed ability comp?

The area wasn't a grammar area. The local school was the only grammar in a 50 mile radius, it just happened to be our nearest school.

Well, since the first post I wrote mentioned the twin pillars of natural intelligence and access to a decent school being the best recipe for high achievement, that post should answer your question. I think it very likely that had the DC gone to the alternative to the grammar (in the other direction, two miles further away) then they wouldn't have all got into Oxford, on the basis that that school has been extremely poor performing for years, and almost no student ever goes to Oxbridge from there (perhaps one student every three to four years). I can't know the answer to that one but I wouldn't bet on much Oxbridge success. That doesn't mean school alone determines the outcome, but it's critical, clearly.

The one thing I'm not doing is claiming any credit for anything my DC have achieved. Big thanks to school and to particular teachers within the school and a big nod to the fact that mine were born pretty bright. Parents are much less key than they imagine, assuming they provide the basics of life.

if the school is a mixed comp where it’s rare a child even applies, let alone gets in, they aren’t going to hold the “interested in oxbridge” talks for students and parents, identify and walk potential students through the application process

I don't recall any 'interested in Oxbridge' talks. There was a general uni talk in Y12 which included Oxbridge but I think you're magnifying the importance of single talks. The process is much more organic than that where teachers think a student is capable of getting into Oxbridge. As for the early application side of it, any current Ho6 who doesn't know the process should be sacked. The uni websites gives all the info required, all very straightforward and no Ho6 will be unaware.

Mixed comp strong Oxbridge program Dd went on an overnight to Trinity last month so this poster posting nonsense.

Mixed comp strong Oxbridge program Dd went on an overnight to Trinity last month so this poster posting nonsense

yep, you know a mixed comp with a strong oxbridge program therefore all mixed comps do.

you’re talking nonsense. Some comps
might, but definitely not all.

It's not about the 'programme' in the narrow sense, it's about the teaching and the aspiration of teachers for their pupils.

The "I sent my kid to the local school and my kids did well" thing is the type of conversation that makes people feel as if they would be doing 'too much' by pursuing/opting for a better school for their DC, moving to gain access to better schools, bringing in tutors, going a bursary route for private, etc. You see it on MN a lot. Everything can work out okay for some parents who choose not to involve themselves but many who openly admit to this will have kids who are doing well due to the kid themselves and/or the school's nurturing. That's ideal for most of us. Yet people in different/more challenging situations will walk around thinking they might be overdoing/pressuring their kids into MH issues it if they start looking at tutors, considering a move etc. Why?

Our local secondary schools can barely get 45% of students to five 4+ grades at GCSE level. There is no shame in wanting more for yourself/for your kids.

Surely it has to be a mix of things.

Money
Nurturing
Expectation
Genetics
Environment
Work ethic

My DS is high achieving academically, so far. I'm a single mum working full time and with him, the fact that he loves reading seems to be the key. He'll read the ingredients on the back of the cornflakes box.

He loves doing homework (not something he inherited from me 🙂) and genuinely seems to enjoy school projects.

But that comes with other concerns - is he spending enough time exercising? In the fresh air? Does he have enough friends? etc.

And academic high achieving is not the same as career high achieving.

So I’ve imagined all the Oxbridge preparation at my dds comp then? It’s to the silly poster that denied there is Oxbridge support in mixed comps. My Dh went to Cambridge from a rural comp my father worked for years as head of 6th in a large mixed comp assisting talented students to get to Oxbridge - stop posting Ill informed drivel.

I really agree with this.

Though I had kids who did struggle in early years of school and relied on home help to bridge gaps - it's highly likely they've inherited if not my dyslexia then some of the other labels I have or associate with that - schools disinterested in testing as they don't struggle enough and despite what some MN poster think we've never -however much we cared -managed to scrape together £500+ for private reports school pretty much said they'd ignore. They are in or near exam years now and doing bloody well.

I want the kids to do as well as they can because education gave me options and DH the career he loves and enjoys - there's no family money to easy their way in life and little social connections that can help them along- so education as a base seems a good idea. It's not everything - but not having a decent education to fall back on will just make life even harder.

So I’ve imagined all the Oxbridge preparation at my dds comp then? It’s to the silly poster that denied there is Oxbridge support in mixed comps. My Dh went to Cambridge from a rural comp my father worked for years as head of 6th in a large mixed comp assisting talented students to get to Oxbridge - stop posting Ill informed drivel

where did I say no comprehensive school does this?

why do you think just because the two schools you have direct experience of support oxbridge candidates all comprehensive schools do?

call me silly, yet you can’t see past your own privileged bubble.

there are many special measures schools in deprived areas where oxbridge prep is the last thing on their minds.

So I’ve imagined all the Oxbridge preparation at my dds comp then?

There's no such thing at DC secondary school - though having got one student in a few year ago - while student got themselves in - for first and only time there was a half hearted attempt to set one up.

There was such a scheme at my own secondary school that usually sent between 2-10 people every year - I have a DN at school it still runs.

Not all state schools are equal - people are aware as that's partly why houses cost more in better catchment areas.

The best school here has loads of things laid on - I know one parent who had family with children in that school while their kids are same school as mine - they spent a lot of time, money and energy replicating similar experiences while their family members just have to write cheques and get them to the school.