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Ukraine Invasion: Part 34

988 replies

MagicFox · 23/10/2022 21:29

Welcome all πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦

OP posts:
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80
MissConductUS · 10/11/2022 18:09

ScrollingLeaves · 10/11/2022 16:51

DesdamonasHandkerchief Β· Today 14:56
Russian forces claim they have taken Pavlivka and are trying to take Bakhmut. They're desperate to offset the bad news of the Kherson withdrawal:

War monitor update and thread linked below:

There is a difficult situation in Bakhmut and Pavlivka area the battles are fierce.

twitter.com/warmonitor3/status/1590708696438697984?s=61&t=saEusp5oRptqmXWpWdPHNg

How worrying. Where was that Ukrainian soldier who last week made a video to say he thought they were surrounded, it was likely the end for them, and that we should all cherish every moment? Was it near this area?

It's likely an attempt to distract the Ukrainians during the withdrawal from Kherson City. Withdrawing under fire, especially across a river, is extremely dangerous. I'd be a bit surprised if they weren't attacking elsewhere.

I'm not sure about Pavlivka, but I don't think that Bakhmut is strategically important. The Ukrainians can pull back a bit and attack with indirect fire.

RedToothBrush · 10/11/2022 18:31

TyotyaKlava · 10/11/2022 17:19

Yes I watched the video he was near bahmut

Sure it was Pavlivka not Bakhmut

RedToothBrush · 10/11/2022 18:41

Pavlivka - strategic - its closest point to railway through to Melitopol and then on to Kherson. If Ukraine are pushed back it protects the rail line better.
Bakhmut - not strategic - is a meat grinder of attrition for Russian troops.

RedToothBrush · 10/11/2022 19:06

Defmon at defmon3
Kherson
I have 10 settlements I consider being confirmed as liberated today. This is moving pretty fast.
It appears we are about 12-24 hours behind actual events based on rumors yesterday.

He then lists:
Yevhenivka, Kyselivka, Novokairy, Pavlivka (RTB: not to be confused with the other town with the same name in Donetsk), Stanislav, Snihurivka, Bruskyns'ke, Tamaryne, Pyatikhatky, Kuchers'ke. All geolocated with photos.

Then goes:
11: Myrolyubivka, 12: Chkalove 13: Kachkarivka

Ukraine Invasion: Part 34
RedToothBrush · 10/11/2022 19:10

Defmon at defmon3
Bakhmut
Heavy fighting is going on in this area, I believe the Russians are desperate for a victory because of the epic failure in Kherson. A lot of ppl have asked me about Bakhmut today, but I have not seen anything raising any concern.

Donetsk-Pavlivka
According to Wargonzo reports, RuAF captured Pavlivka, but I wonder if they captured it, why is peg legged Pegov standing outside the town by their artillery positions doing a video about it? I'm extremely skeptical.

Peg-Legged-Pegov outside Pavlivka. There was a video with a flag on a building, but for all I know, it could be the very first house in Pavlivka. It would not be the first time the Russians try to fake a victory

According to Wagner associated telegram channel Grey Zone, Ukrainian Special Forces have reached the outskirts of Kherson City. I consider this a unconfirmed rumor.

Last point seems possible given today's noise and rumours I believe. Will probably know more tomorrow I suspect.

RedToothBrush · 10/11/2022 19:45

International Observers Ukraine at intobservers
Ukrainian telegrams are reporting that Chornobaivka is under the control of Ukraine. Waiting for visual confirmation.

There are also reports of Ukrainian GUR
Units within Kherson itself but unconfirmed.

minsmum · 10/11/2022 20:31

It is all moving very fast, unconfirmed but Russians are reporting explosions at Kakhova dam, sorry about my spelling

Igotjelly · 10/11/2022 20:32

minsmum · 10/11/2022 20:31

It is all moving very fast, unconfirmed but Russians are reporting explosions at Kakhova dam, sorry about my spelling

Fuck

minsmum · 10/11/2022 20:46

It's probably wrong

ScrollingLeaves · 10/11/2022 20:52

TyotyaKlava Β· Today 17:19

ScrollingLeaves Β· Today 16:51

β€œDesdamonasHandkerchief Β· Today 14:56
Russian forces claim they have taken Pavlivka and are trying to take Bakhmut. They're desperate to offset the bad news of the Kherson withdrawal

War monitor update and thread linked below:

There is a difficult situation in Bakhmut and Pavlivka area the battles are fierce.”

twitter.com/warmonitor3/status/1590708696438697984?s=61&t=saEusp5oRptqmXWpWdPHNg

How worrying. Where was that Ukrainian soldier who last week made a video to say he thought they were surrounded, it was likely the end for them, and that we should all cherish every moment? Was it near this area?

Yes I watched the video he was near bahmut

Thank you for confirming that, TyotyaKlava.
In his unforgettable video the soldier mentioned how everything had been going their way but then they were suddenly surrounded and in the gravest of predicaments. I thought then how nothing must be taken for granted, Ukraine is still in such danger.

ScrollingLeaves · 10/11/2022 21:51

I found the video and the place where the soldier said they were (1 Nov) , and it was Yehorivka which is a little south west of Bahkmut, but roughly the same general area.
mobile.twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1588969867138715649

Ukraine Invasion: Part 34
DrBlackbird · 10/11/2022 23:09

Is it just me or are there more calls for β€˜negotiations’ to end the war being bandied about in the press? How is that really possible? Ukraine wants Russia to withdraw from all its territory. Russia wants/needs to take something from Ukraine as proof of a successful β€˜military operation’. Just cannot see a negotiated ending. Then again, Russia/Putin won’t accept being forced out either. God. What an useless utterly insane waste of lives.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 10/11/2022 23:32

Reports that the Kherson situation is a disaster for the Russians.

I keep thinking about the few civilians there. How they are surviving, if they are surviving.

And praying for Bakhmut.

Hancox432 · 11/11/2022 00:07

DrBlackbird · 10/11/2022 23:09

Is it just me or are there more calls for β€˜negotiations’ to end the war being bandied about in the press? How is that really possible? Ukraine wants Russia to withdraw from all its territory. Russia wants/needs to take something from Ukraine as proof of a successful β€˜military operation’. Just cannot see a negotiated ending. Then again, Russia/Putin won’t accept being forced out either. God. What an useless utterly insane waste of lives.

Most wars will end in negotiation 1 way or another. If it was offered that pre feb war land was declared as Russian or at least the Donbass as independent. With Ukraine Joining NATO or at least having security garuntees from NATO incase of future invasion but with a caveat of No Nukes on Ukraine soil. this could be enough for both sides. Ukraine gets their security guarantees, Russia can play down their military defeat and would likely claim Ukraine is denazified, while the west would benefit from a severely defeated military of Russia. Of course I'm sure sanctions relief would have to be part of the deal which would appease the Western powers worrying about energy prices etc.

I'm not saying this is what Ukraine should or will do however it depends how many lives both countries are willing to lose before a settlement is made. The lines are expected to freeze this winter so any lives lost are likely just a waste considering no side will be making any ground or very little ground at least. Hence why there is talk that the winter is the best time for diplomacy.

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 11/11/2022 00:08

Just some of the noise on Twitter (with links) concerning the retreat of Russian forces from Kherson. It sounds chaotic and deadly.
I'm worried about what the Kremlin's response to this slaughter and humiliation will be.

The irony is I'm 100% sure that if Putin had, had a crystal ball and knew in February what he knows now he'd never have invaded Ukraine in the first place, but he's in too deep and has to keep pushing on with this deranged war to save his own skin. And in the meantime 100's of thousands of innocent lives are lost for the Kremlin's folly and hubris:

Another unconfirmed report, Bilozerka west of Kherson is supossed to be liberated. Russian forces retreating to harbour area of Kherson city in panic.
https://twitter.com/nlwartracker/status/1590823995188088833?s=61&t=ltj76FlpGZDKs-jZjyPaew

⚑️⚑️⚑️There is a chance to defeat the 18,000th group of rashists on the right bank, they are without communication, in complete disorganization, this could be the final.
TG:"Π’Π΅Ρ€Ρ‚ΠΈΠΊΠ°Π»ΡŒ "
https://twitter.com/maksnafoo_fella/status/1590819569316540417?s=61&t=ltj76FlpGZDKs-jZjyPaew

Alleged Ukrainian attacks on Russian columns retreating across the Dnieper river. Whatever it is, it’s massive...
https://twitter.com/killedinukraine/status/1590800449606934529?s=61&t=OWh2bmvWZPkS0vV3prf9Gg

There is such a thing happening near Kherson that I'm in total shock. The roar of equipment, Shelling, C-300, Inflatable boats, orcs are fleeing right now... 😳😳😳🀯🀯🀯
https://twitter.com/maksnafoo_fella/status/1590804120146944017?s=61&t=OWh2bmvWZPkS0vV3prf9Gg

If the numbers that are still present on the right bank of the Dnipr that both Russian and Ukrainian sources are talking about are correct, then Russia is heading for an unparalleled loss.
https://twitter.com/noelreports/status/1590817086137311239?s=61&t=OWh2bmvWZPkS0vV3prf9Gg

https://twitter.com/maksnafoo_fella/status/1590829006450196482?s=61&t=OWh2bmvWZPkS0vV3prf9Gg

DrBlackbird · 11/11/2022 00:12

If it was offered that pre feb war land was declared as Russian or at least the Donbass as independent

Won’t Ukraine want to retake Crimea? That was such a huge loss for them.

Greenshake · 11/11/2022 00:24

Crimea seems to be a separate, thorny issue. I can see that being a serious red line for The Kremlin.

blueshoes · 11/11/2022 00:25

Hancox432 · 11/11/2022 00:07

Most wars will end in negotiation 1 way or another. If it was offered that pre feb war land was declared as Russian or at least the Donbass as independent. With Ukraine Joining NATO or at least having security garuntees from NATO incase of future invasion but with a caveat of No Nukes on Ukraine soil. this could be enough for both sides. Ukraine gets their security guarantees, Russia can play down their military defeat and would likely claim Ukraine is denazified, while the west would benefit from a severely defeated military of Russia. Of course I'm sure sanctions relief would have to be part of the deal which would appease the Western powers worrying about energy prices etc.

I'm not saying this is what Ukraine should or will do however it depends how many lives both countries are willing to lose before a settlement is made. The lines are expected to freeze this winter so any lives lost are likely just a waste considering no side will be making any ground or very little ground at least. Hence why there is talk that the winter is the best time for diplomacy.

Not that it is up to me but I would not agree to this if I were Ukraine, US or NATO because it would be rewarding Russian aggression and encouraging further aggression from Russia after it has a chance to re-group and China to go after Taiwan.

Pre-2014 borders yes, but not pre-Feb. If Russia wants to save lives, it knows what it needs to do. As if Russia keeps its word anyway.

RedToothBrush · 11/11/2022 00:40

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 11/11/2022 00:08

Just some of the noise on Twitter (with links) concerning the retreat of Russian forces from Kherson. It sounds chaotic and deadly.
I'm worried about what the Kremlin's response to this slaughter and humiliation will be.

The irony is I'm 100% sure that if Putin had, had a crystal ball and knew in February what he knows now he'd never have invaded Ukraine in the first place, but he's in too deep and has to keep pushing on with this deranged war to save his own skin. And in the meantime 100's of thousands of innocent lives are lost for the Kremlin's folly and hubris:

Another unconfirmed report, Bilozerka west of Kherson is supossed to be liberated. Russian forces retreating to harbour area of Kherson city in panic.
https://twitter.com/nlwartracker/status/1590823995188088833?s=61&t=ltj76FlpGZDKs-jZjyPaew

⚑️⚑️⚑️There is a chance to defeat the 18,000th group of rashists on the right bank, they are without communication, in complete disorganization, this could be the final.
TG:"Π’Π΅Ρ€Ρ‚ΠΈΠΊΠ°Π»ΡŒ "
https://twitter.com/maksnafoo_fella/status/1590819569316540417?s=61&t=ltj76FlpGZDKs-jZjyPaew

Alleged Ukrainian attacks on Russian columns retreating across the Dnieper river. Whatever it is, it’s massive...
https://twitter.com/killedinukraine/status/1590800449606934529?s=61&t=OWh2bmvWZPkS0vV3prf9Gg

There is such a thing happening near Kherson that I'm in total shock. The roar of equipment, Shelling, C-300, Inflatable boats, orcs are fleeing right now... 😳😳😳🀯🀯🀯
https://twitter.com/maksnafoo_fella/status/1590804120146944017?s=61&t=OWh2bmvWZPkS0vV3prf9Gg

If the numbers that are still present on the right bank of the Dnipr that both Russian and Ukrainian sources are talking about are correct, then Russia is heading for an unparalleled loss.
https://twitter.com/noelreports/status/1590817086137311239?s=61&t=OWh2bmvWZPkS0vV3prf9Gg

https://twitter.com/maksnafoo_fella/status/1590829006450196482?s=61&t=OWh2bmvWZPkS0vV3prf9Gg

18 to 22k Russian soliders still on the wrong side of the river tonight, trying to flee in motor boats (remember how many got shot up and destroyed the other day). Ukraine is bombarding the river with artillery by all accounts.

Rumour has it that Ukrainian special forces are in the city (don't forget those partisans) and the city is now surrounded by Ukrainian forces.

Apparently the Russians have been busy trip wiring and mining everywhere but that also means they can't move about much and they will be bunched up by the river.

You have to hope that any civilians in the city were wise enough to realise that being near the river tonight wouldn't be a smart move.

Daybreak will be interesting.

RedToothBrush · 11/11/2022 00:43

Greenshake · 11/11/2022 00:24

Crimea seems to be a separate, thorny issue. I can see that being a serious red line for The Kremlin.

Russia may not have choice over Crimea.

Reality check. If Ukraine do manage an assault on the southern front which takes out the crucial railway line and they have control of water to Crimea and they target the Kerch bridge again, Crimea is very much fucked.

Greenshake · 11/11/2022 00:54

Whilst they may not have a choice, I think this will be a significant tipping point

MissConductUS · 11/11/2022 01:26

RedToothBrush · 11/11/2022 00:40

18 to 22k Russian soliders still on the wrong side of the river tonight, trying to flee in motor boats (remember how many got shot up and destroyed the other day). Ukraine is bombarding the river with artillery by all accounts.

Rumour has it that Ukrainian special forces are in the city (don't forget those partisans) and the city is now surrounded by Ukrainian forces.

Apparently the Russians have been busy trip wiring and mining everywhere but that also means they can't move about much and they will be bunched up by the river.

You have to hope that any civilians in the city were wise enough to realise that being near the river tonight wouldn't be a smart move.

Daybreak will be interesting.

I think some clever person posted up thread that withdrawing under fire, especially across a river, was extremely dangerous. 😁

The Russians knew they would take heavy casualties when they attempted this. That's probably one reason why they waited so long. Some of Russia's best troops were in Kherson. The survivors will not be combat effective, so it's a big win for Ukraine.

On the more frequent calls for negotiation, it's not just winter that will slow down the tempo of operations. The battlefield has changed. The Russians losing so much territory has helped them. They now have shorter supply lines back to Russia and a smaller front to defend. They now have time to dig more defensive fortifications. The task of evicting them will be much harder than it was in previous battles.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 11/11/2022 07:35

Some of Russia's best troops were in Kherson There were reports a couple of weeks ago that the best troops were being removed from Kherson and mobiks sent in instead. Not an easy job but it was happening.

Seems they stuffed the city full of the mobiks and -then- withdrew. Lost-quality losses

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 11/11/2022 07:59

ISW Key Takeaways

Ukrainian forces steadily advanced in Kherson Oblast on November 10 as Russian forces conduct a withdrawal to the east (left) bank of the Dnipro River.

The Russian withdrawal will take some time to complete, and fighting will continue throughout Kherson Oblast as Ukrainian troops advance and come up against pre-prepared Russian defensive lines, especially around Kherson City.

ISW does not assess the fighting in Ukraine will halt or enter a stalemate due to winter weather, despite faulty Western assumptions.

Ukraine holds the initiative and is in the process of securing a major victory in Kherson. A ceasefire would provide the Kremlin with the pause it desperately needs to reconstitute Russian forces.

Wagner Group financier Yevgeniy Prigozhin is increasingly wrestling with St. Petersburg officials over expanding Wagner Group recruitment in the city.

Ukrainian Air Force Command spokesperson Yuriy Ignat stated that Russian force will likely slow the pace of their campaign against Ukrainian infrastructure.

Ukrainian forces continued to conduct counteroffensive operations on the Svatove-Kreminna line.

Russian forces continued offensive operations near Bakhmut, Avdiivka, and in western Donetsk.

Russian forces began constructing second line fortifications in Crimea and southern Ukraine.

Russian citizens continue to oppose Russia’s war in Ukraine through protest, social media dissent, and desertions from the military.

Russian mobilization efforts are channeling personnel to the Wagner group.

Russian occupation officials are continuing efforts to erode Ukrainian national identity while mobilizing residents in Russian-occupied territories.

Note: ISW expanded comments:
Russian forces so far appear to be withdrawing in relatively good order, and Ukrainian forces are making expected gains without routing Russian forces, as they did in the Kharkiv counteroffensive.

It seems from the Twittersphere that they may, unusually, have been wrong about this!

The major Ukrainian victory underway in Kherson Oblast will not be Ukraine’s last.

An outright statement.

+++

Things have been moving very fast but from the Kyiv Independent & Ukraine: Live yesterday:

πŸ—£οΈDefense Minister Oleksiy Reznikov believes that Russia will need at least a week to withdraw its troops from Kherson. He added that the occupants keep about 40 thousand servicemen in Kherson region, including in Kherson.

πŸ—£οΈThe United States does not put pressure on Ukraine in negotiations on the conflict, - White House adviser Jake Sullivan.

πŸ“Pentagon: US is assembling a new "Ramstein" on military aid to Ukraine.
The seventh meeting of the Contact Group on Defense of Ukraine with the participation of more than 50 countries will take place next Wednesday.
In addition, he stated that "there will be no hesitation, no flag raising, no flinching in the support of the United States

⚑️ Zelensky: If Russia blows up Kakhovka dam, it will be war declaration to whole world.

⚑️ Erdogan calls Russia's retreat from Kherson 'positive decision.'
Erdogan said he would continue to maintain telephone diplomacy with Russian dictator Vladimir Putin. Turkey's "mediation work continues uninterruptedly," Erdogan said, adding that he can't predict when the war will be over.

⚑️ Zaluzhnyi: Ukraine liberates 41 settlements in Kherson Oblast since Oct. 1.

⚑️ UK freezes $20.5 billion worth of Russian assets.

⚑️ Lukashenko's regime bans 'Long live Belarus!' salute, calls it Nazi.
(kyivindependent.com/news-feed/lukashenkos-regime-bans-long-live-belarus-salute-calls-it-nazi)Belarusian authorities have recognized the country's patriotic motto "Long live Belarus!" as a Nazi symbol.

⚑️ Financial Times: Russia's retreat from Kherson gives Ukraine firepower control over roads from Crimea.

⚑️Amnesty International accuses Russia of committing crimes against humanity in Ukraine. "Russia's actions of forced displacement and deportation are reprehensible and constitute a war crime," Amnesty International Secretary General Agnes Callamard said on Nov. 10. [my my my, they just realised?]

⚑️Annual inflation in Ukraine reaches 26.6% in October.

⚑️Norway plans to allocate nearly $ 144 million to support Ukraine.

⚑️General Staff: Russian forces strengthening their positions on Dnipro's east bank.

⚑️Media: Russian troops reportedly blow up TV center, destroy infrastructure in Kherson.
The Russian forces also reportedly blew up a regional energy facility, a local publication Most reported on Nov. 10.
According to the report, there are problems with mobile service in the city, it only works near the Antonivsky bridge.

⚑️Spain to hand over two additional Hawk air defense systems to Ukraine.
Spain to dispatch two more Hawk surface-to-air missile launchers in addition to the four it has already sent to Ukraine, Spanish Defence Minister Margarita Robles said on Nov. 10.

⚑️US announces new $400 million security aid package to Ukraine, air defense included.
U.S. Department of Defense announced the authorization of security assistance valued at up to $400 million "to meet Ukraine's critical security and defense needs."
The new package will include air defense contributions, such as missiles for Hawk air defense systems and four Avenger air defense systems. Additional ammunition for HIMARS' are also included in the package.

⚑️Minister: Poland hands over 1,570 Starlink systems to Ukraine.

⚑️Bloomberg: Russia is covertly checking its bomb shelters.
Russian state workers are quietly checking basements and other shelters not used since Soviet times, people familiar with the efforts told Bloomberg.
Inspections and cleanups of civil-defense facilities, which were typically built in the basements of hospitals, apartment buildings, schools and government offices in the Soviet era, are taking place in cities across the country, sources told the journalists

⚑️SBU has uncovered 700 collaborators since Feb. 24.

⚑️Ukraine's military targets 2 concentrations of Russian firepower on southern front line.

⚑️WSJ: South Korea to sell Ukraine-bound munitions to US.
The U.S. will purchase artillery shells from South Korea that are destined for Ukrainian Armed Forces, U.S. officials familiar with the deal told the Wall Street Journal.
South Korea will sell 100,000 rounds of 155mm artillery ammunition that will be delivered to Ukraine, "enough to supply Ukraine’s artillery units for at least several weeks of intensive combat."

πŸ“· Temporarily Occupied Crimea, Russians started digging new trenches near Chongar checkpoint

πŸ‡ͺπŸ‡ΈSpanish military will train Ukrainian snipers - Spanish media Vozpopuli.
This will take place at the military base in Toledo under a program that provides for the Spanish military to train Ukrainian snipers.

US has evidence that Russia is preparing to test nuclear-tipped torpedo - CNN

πŸ—£οΈZelensky: Russian losses in the war are 10 times higher than Ukrainian ones.

πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡ΈThe U.S. stripped Russia of the status of a country with market economy - Reuters.
Countries with this status are not subject to a number of US foreign trade restrictions.
(Does anyone understand the implications of this?)

No info yet on Ru losses. Today's is going to be especially interesting, though perhaps it will take a day or two for the losses to be counted.

πŸ€”Fans of Banksy, the British street art star, are debating whether the artist could have painted graffiti in Ukraine on the ruins of a house in Borodyanka.
The debate erupted after photographer Ed Ram, who works in Ukraine for foreign publications, posted a photo from the Kyiv region on his Instagram.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 34
Ukraine Invasion: Part 34
ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 11/11/2022 08:03

Just in:
πŸ€”Biden to discuss situation in Ukraine with Chinese leader before G20 summit - White House.