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Ukraine Invasion: Part 33

990 replies

MagicFox · 11/10/2022 21:24

Starting this at 980 on the other thread because it's late and I might miss the tipping point. We're moving fast at the moment, thanks all for the analysis, insight and company

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Ijsbear · 17/10/2022 16:39

It seems that a pilot shortage is at least part of the problem.

So in other words Russia has plenty of planes but not enough pilots, and Ukraine has pilots but not enough planes .... the ironies of war, eh?

MagicFox · 17/10/2022 16:45

Rachel Reeves has decimated Truss. I can't believe she'll still be PM by tomorrow morning.

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Igotjelly · 17/10/2022 16:48

Is Ben Wallace in the commons? My only comfort is that he’s a steady hand on the helm at the moment.

notimagain · 17/10/2022 16:52

Ijsbear · 17/10/2022 16:39

It seems that a pilot shortage is at least part of the problem.

So in other words Russia has plenty of planes but not enough pilots, and Ukraine has pilots but not enough planes .... the ironies of war, eh?

Thing is if rumours are to be believed regardless of numbers of airframes the Russian pilots were getting very few flying hours (due money) even before all this kicked off, and the senior pilots were hogging what flying was available.

Lack of proficiency is obviously not a good thing, and it really isn't when operating in the Close Air Support Role (CAS) because you are by definition operating near the ground, over the battle field, high workload, and lots of threats)

Mind you you'd need to have a serious death wish to still be doing CAS at the age of 63...either the money with Wagner was very good or the pension military pension was carp...

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 17/10/2022 16:52

An interview with (County Durham's own) Fiona Hill a former official at the U.S. National Security Council specialising in Russian and European affairs.

“This is a great power conflict, the third great power conflict in the European space in a little over a century,” Hill says. “It’s the end of the existing world order. Our world is not going to be the same as it was before.”

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/10/17/fiona-hill-putin-war-00061894

MissConductUS · 17/10/2022 16:53

Igotjelly · 17/10/2022 16:48

Is Ben Wallace in the commons? My only comfort is that he’s a steady hand on the helm at the moment.

He was interviewed on the Ukraine: The Latest podcast, and I was similarly impressed. I also think he'll get on well with Lloyd Austin, who I've heard is very sharp, easygoing, and sociable.

I wonder why there is such a shortage of government officials who meet this standard on both sides of the pond.

Igotjelly · 17/10/2022 17:01

We’ll fuck me she’s left again.

MagicFox · 17/10/2022 17:04

A military plane (seen reports it's Russian) has crashed into an apartment building in west Russia

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MagicFox · 17/10/2022 17:08

Good interview with Fiona Hill, Desdemona. Whenever I hear the new world order spoken about there is never any detail about what that might look like, what role the UN will play/how it will evolve? Surely these are things that should be being forecasted and played out? Am I missing something?

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MagicFox · 17/10/2022 17:10

More on the jet crash. Russian defence ministry says it was an accident during a training flight. As Scarr points out, weird that it should be carrying shitloads of live ammunition

twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1582037469683675136?s=46&t=lusQgfoICZalZB28ifrj8A

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MagicFox · 17/10/2022 17:14

A must read 👇

Fiona Hill and Angela Stent, The World Putin Wants
How Distortions About the Past Feed Delusions About the Future

www.foreignaffairs.com/russian-federation/world-putin-wants-fiona-hill-angela-stent

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minsmum · 17/10/2022 17:21

mobile.twitter.com/maksymeristavi/status/1581960623868375041 Ukraine embodied in 30 seconds

MagicFox · 17/10/2022 17:23

From the Hill/Stent article:

All this underlines why it is imperative that the West (Australia, Canada, Japan, New Zealand, Singapore, South Korea, the United States, and Europe) redouble its efforts to remain united in supporting Ukraine and countering Russia. In the near term, that means working together to push back against Russian disinformation about the war and false historical narratives, as well as the Kremlin’s other efforts to intimidate Europe—including through deliberate nuclearr_ saber-rattling and energy cutoffs. In the medium to long term, the United States, its allies, and its partners should discuss how to restructure the international and European security architecture to prevent Russia from attacking other neighbors that it deems within its sphere. But for now, NATO is the only institution that can guarantee Europe’s security. Indeed, Finland’s and Sweden’s decision to join was in part motivated by that realization.

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Ijsbear · 17/10/2022 17:26

Mind you you'd need to have a serious death wish to still be doing CAS at the age of 63...either the money with Wagner was very good or the pension military pension was carp..

Or have had a great deal of pressure put on you, either appeals to the Motherland or threats.

MMBaranova · 17/10/2022 17:51

I don't think we understand how much the world has changed (and maybe 'our' worlds). The Putin war has added to instability. I have no idea what is on the other side when/if it is resolved. There will be many other ongoing messes.

RedToothBrush · 17/10/2022 18:00

Michael McKay At Mhmck
On the Svatove-Kreminna battlefront, in addition to Stel'makhivka the rashists shelled Hrekivka, Yampolivka and Zarichne.

The Ukrainian military notes the enemy shelled Kyselivka (Киселівка) "in the Kramatorsk direction" but there is is no such settlement in Краматорский район.

MissConductUS · 17/10/2022 18:04

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 17/10/2022 16:52

An interview with (County Durham's own) Fiona Hill a former official at the U.S. National Security Council specialising in Russian and European affairs.

“This is a great power conflict, the third great power conflict in the European space in a little over a century,” Hill says. “It’s the end of the existing world order. Our world is not going to be the same as it was before.”

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/10/17/fiona-hill-putin-war-00061894

Fiona Hill is one of your finest exports. We tend to think of her as an American as she's been here since she went to university at Harvard. We are thankful for Fiona.

RedToothBrush · 17/10/2022 18:08

minsmum · 17/10/2022 15:47

I am starting to see photos on Twitter of Ukrainian soldiers eating water melon

This one?

Seen tagged with following message 5hrs ago

RedToothBrush · 17/10/2022 18:25

Breaking news from Kherson Ukraine!
The watermelon is sweet and tasty!

minsmum · 17/10/2022 18:27

Yes that one

PerkingFaintly · 17/10/2022 18:34

Remind me what watermelon symbolises? I seem to remember it being discussed here previously? (Or did I dream that?)

PerkingFaintly · 17/10/2022 18:39

MissConductUS · 17/10/2022 18:04

Fiona Hill is one of your finest exports. We tend to think of her as an American as she's been here since she went to university at Harvard. We are thankful for Fiona.

My first experience of Fiona Hill was watching her give testimony to Congress or the Senate re some Former Guy goings on.

She's, um, quite bright, isn't she?Grin

MissConductUS · 17/10/2022 18:48

PerkingFaintly · 17/10/2022 18:34

Remind me what watermelon symbolises? I seem to remember it being discussed here previously? (Or did I dream that?)

It's an export crop for the Kherson region, so I think the symbolism is that Ukrainian troops are retaking the area.

And yes, Fiona is quite the foreign policy intellectual. She did a great interview with the Economist recently about Russia and the war.

The Economist Asks: Fiona Hill

RedToothBrush · 17/10/2022 18:51

Tadeusz Giczan AT TadeuszGiczan
Let me try to explain what's wrong with the new wave of deployment of Russian troops in Belarus and why the threat of a new attack on Kyiv from the north is a bluff. A 1/

Last week Lukashenko announced the deployment of a joint Belarusian-Russian regional grouping of troops composed of Belarusian ground forces and several thousand Russian troops (Belarusian MoD later specified there would be 9,000 of them). 2/

The first trains with Russian troops have already started arriving in Belarus, and three important points should be made here. 1) Judging by the photographs, it is not regular Russian army units that arrive in Belarus, but freshly mobilised Russian reservists. 3/

2) Russian military trains don't carry any heavy equipment - only trucks, petrol tankers and passenger cars with soldiers. 3) Russians are not being brought to the border with Ukraine like in January, but to training bases in northern Belarus. 4/

In other words, at this stage, we are almost certainly talking about the training of Russian reservists in Belarus, as all Russian ranges are overloaded. The Ukrainian military intelligence announced this back in late September (they estimated the nr of reservists to be 20k). 5/

According to the AFU joint forces command, as of early October, there were up to 1,000 Russian troops, 6 aircraft, 4 Iskanders and 12 S-400s in Belarus. In theory, the mobilised troops could reinforce this grouping after training, but there are several "buts". 6/

First, the Russians, as I noted earlier, arrive without heavy equipment. The videos that have been circulating on Twitter in recent days, allegedly showing Russian tanks, APCs, and howitzers with 'menacing new tactical markings' arriving in Belarus aren't real. 7/

Or rather, the videos are real, but they show trains of the Belarusian army. This can be easily determined by the blue passenger cars (Russia's are grey) and the triangle-shaped tactical markings adopted by the Belarusian army in late Summer. 8/

Also, these Belarusian troops aren't being deployed on the border with Ukraine, it's just a rotation. Those brigades that have been reinforcing the border in recent months are returning to their bases, being replaced by fresh ones. The total number of troops remains the same. 9/

The Belarusian MoD said today that Russia plans to transfer 170 tanks to Belarus, but so far we see the opposite process. Without any statement last week alone, Belarus handed over at least 92 T-72A tanks and dozens of trucks to Russia. 10/

So if anything the Belarusian flank is being weakened rather than strengthened, and all Belarus can do is put on a good face and loudly announce that Ukraine should be scared. In recent days Lukashenko and his minions made a whole bunch of loud statements: 11/

About the deployment of a regional grouping of troops, pre-emptive strikes, partial mobilisation, issuing of weapons to firefighters, etc. Some of these statements aren't even new, they were just repeated this week for greater effect. 12/

The main target audience of these statements is the West. For the first time in living memory, the Belarusian MoD has decided to communicate its actions also in English and Spanish. A stark contrast to February, when the attack was real and the Belarusian MoD was silent. 13/

The only real things we have so far are the arrival of Russian mobiks, the handover of >100 tanks and trucks to Russia and isolated "mobilisation readiness exercises" in some areas of Belarus, which look as pathetic as in Russia. Everything else is just hawkish rhetoric. 14/

And last but not least. The Belarusian-Ukrainian border is almost entirely covered by the impassable Polesie marshes, the largest wetlands in Europe. The few sections along the roads where the Russians attacked in February have been turned by Ukrainians into the Maginot Line. 15/

With minefields, echeloned defence, blown-up bridges, etc. An attack on them by the Belarusian-Russian grouping in its current state would be suicide which would likely result in Lukashenko's political suicide. So no, there will be no attack from Belarus, at least for now. 16/16

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