Lucy Letby Court Case

[Pebble21uk]

Today has been the first day of the trial, which is expected to last for six months. One thread has already been pulled on the subject. Upon deletion MNHQ said that a thread about the case is fine but please read the rules around contempt of court before posting... these are copied and pasted here:
Publicly commenting on a court case:

You might be in contempt of court if you speak publicly or post on social media.
For example, you should not:
say whether you think a person is guilty or innocent
refer to someone’s previous convictions
name someone the judge has allowed to be anonymous, even if you did not know this
name victims, witnesses and offenders under 18
name sex crime victims
share any evidence or facts about a case that the judge has said cannot be made public

If any of the above take place then new threads will also be pulled. Let's please try and keep it going!

How normal is it for the judge to release evidence in this way? I can’t help thinking it’s to try and stave off what will inevitably be awful headlines from the ‘evil’ line and try to present that it some context.

That was the same argument used in the Sally Clark case (her other babies survived while she was in jail) and to damn Louise Woodward because the other kids survived when she wasn't looking after them. Not good enough at all and I hope the defence made that point very forcefully as well as the other hospitals being better.

You don't use stats to convict people of murder, you need clear cut evidence.

She also says I haven’t done anything on the same note.

It’s impossible to say from that whether she did kill them all or she didn’t and under the pressure of the investigation is losing her marbles and believing she’s guilty.

Yes I can't remember seeing evidence like that released to the media before someone has been convicted (or acquitted).

What's interesting to me is that it appears the entire spike over 2015/16 is being attributed to Lucy Letby. There were 8 deaths in 2015 and 5 in 2016 as opposed to 3 in 2014. Lucy Letby was initially charged with 8 deaths and has already been found not guilty for one as the prosecution submitted no evidence for that death.

So in spite of an independent review stating the hospital neonatal unit was under staffed and making 24 recommendations, basically they believe none of those excess baby deaths were as a result of issues with the hospital.

I'm autistic and if someone analysed my private notes at a time when I'm in a self loathing, the worlds a disaster mood, I don't think they would be able to work out the type of person I am.

It’s not typical NHS at all. If anyone was thought to be directly harming patients they would be suspended immediately pending investigation.

It implies the unit was very poorly run. Which may be the real reason for the high death rate of babies and this nurse is a convenient scapegoat for the sake of argument.

I've just tried my best to transcribe the note. It seems to be in 2 parts with added statements in between in places.
Anything in brackets are her added writings over the top of sentences. Any question marks are where I can't decipher it and italics is where I'm not sure. Thought it might help.

NOT GOOD ENOUGH
There are no words
I can’t breathe I can’t focus (kill myself right now)
I haven’t done anything wrong
Police investigation forgot slander discrimination victim
All getting too much everything
taking over my life
????? (Hate myself)
I feel very alone and scared
What does the future hold
How can I get through it
How will things ever be like they ???
I don’t deserve to live
(They won’t)
I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough to care for them (killing me)
and I am a horrible evil person
I don’t deserve Mum and Dad
World is better off without me ??? and ???
I AM EVIL I DID THIS

Second part:

I am an awful person
I pay every day for that
I’ll never have children or marry
I’ll never know what ??? like to have a family
(DESPAIR)
Hate myself so much for what this has
(PANIC)
(FEAR)
(LOST)
(I DID THIS)
(WHY ME)

That does seem very much like a cbt exercise

I know. According a MP’s report, around 1000 babies die preventably a year in the U.K. Not helped by a culture of blame shifting and keeping schtum which means lessons are not learned.

There have been other NHS trusts with unacceptably high baby death rates - eg the Royal Shrewsbury and Telford. Mothers were blamed for the avoidable deaths of 200 of them.

I really don’t think this is a cover-up. The CPS will feel the case is strong enough for court and have no skin in the game of protecting the Trust.

It doesn't have to be an intentional cover up but it could be a blind refusal to accept the hospital was providing sub standard care.

I know it sounds like I'm taking a position on Lucy Letby's guilt or innocence here - I'm not, I think the prosecution has presented a compelling case, but I also want to acknowledge there have been other times when a compelling case has been presented but it's fallen apart under scrutiny: eg Adnan Sayed.

They will want to know there is enough evidence to bring to trial. They don't check beforehand if that evidence is circumstantial, just that there is enough of it.

In this case, the Prosecution has enough deaths and incidents in a short space of time which all happened while LL was on shift, plus the note.

Could all still be circumstantial and not evidence of guilt.

I think that note is flimsy evidence, I hope it's all seen properly in context. Clearly something has gone terribly wrong at this hospital whether it's malice or malpractice and I hope that by the time the case concludes there is good enough evidence one way or the other that allows the jury to feel secure in their verdict. Very difficult and upsetting case.

I don't think the letter is good evidence of her guilt tbh. If she was interviewed again and again by the police , which she must have been. Then how much pressure did she get from the police while just interacting with her let alone the interviews. Good cop bad Cop for example . It's happened countless times in the past .
Just my thoughts.

I’m not either, just weighing the evidence on both sides thus far.

‘I killed them because I’m not good enough’ could be a reflection on incompetency but the ‘on purpose’ makes the sentence bizarre.

If the hospital is intentionally covering up or are just too deep in to the culture of fear and blame culture, or if LL is guilty, there will be a lot of exposure of dreadful standards of care and safeguarding.

If I’d been accused of something of this magnitude I’m sure my diary would be a rambling mess of thoughts too

This is being heavily reported on both national and regional news. Are they going to sustain this level of coverage for 6 months???

It does seem to me like the TV news coverage seems biased towards her guilt. The way they phrase it.... saying something damning first followed by 'it is alleged in court today'...

Yes I find the coverage is not especially neutral and I wonder whether that's a contributing factor to the judge releasing the entirety of the note (which seen in entirety is more ambiguous than the phrases which have been cited). The right to a fair trial is important, with that in mind I'll try and refrain from commenting further!

That is a good point.

The reason the coverage sounds biased is because they are literally reporting the prosecution’s opening case. Once the defence made their case today that has also been reported.

It will be interesting to see if this level of coverage is sustained for 6 months. I suspect it will be because everyone is fed up of politics and it’s a horrifying case whichever way you cut it: either an innocent women just doing here job is on trial for murdering babies (there but for the grace of Gd etc) or a woman actually murdered all those babies.

But that’s my point, I don’t believe the CPS would be “blind” to the fact that the hospital was sub-standard. It’s well known that many NHS Trusts are creaking on by the skin of their teeth. It’s not beyond the realm of possibility that the hospital was awful.

It will be interesting to see, after all evidence has been examined, how many coincidences there will have been. I will be interested in if there are any colleagues testifying for the prosecution.

Ahh that was meant to be a reply!