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Is anyone on here pro-life?

234 replies

DancingSunflowers · 29/09/2022 17:05

Just wondering.

OP posts:
micey · 30/09/2022 10:04

Friedgreentomatoeshere · 30/09/2022 09:56

@micey No abortion is 100% safe.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/abortion/risks/

Ultimately abortion is about rights, personhood, equality and choice. Every abortion involves taking a life.

Safer than using a coat hanger or going to a backstreet abortionist. Which is obviously the point I was making!

TheGoodFighter · 30/09/2022 10:04

Lavendersummer · 29/09/2022 17:19

Yes. Sadly Mumsnet as a rule isn’t very prolife. And not even very civil to pro-life opinions

Why would we be? It's not pro life, its anti choice.

If you don't want to have an abortion, if you have a moral problem with it, don't have one. Nobody cares. It's the trying to stop anyone else having one that's the problem. It's when you think your morals extend to other womens bodies. That's not pro life, that's anti choice, and its a viewpoint that does not deserve any respect.

TheGoodFighter · 30/09/2022 10:05

Friedgreentomatoeshere · 30/09/2022 09:56

@micey No abortion is 100% safe.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/abortion/risks/

Ultimately abortion is about rights, personhood, equality and choice. Every abortion involves taking a life.

Abortion is much safer than pregnancy and childcare.

No abortion involves taking a life. Life begins at birth and not before.

micey · 30/09/2022 10:11

Interesting that this is the only thread you've started or commented on using this username OP.

ancientgran · 30/09/2022 10:16

Friedgreentomatoeshere · 30/09/2022 08:02

@gnilliwdog 'I thought we had abortion effectively on demand in the UK up to 24 weeks.'

No we don't.

The construction of the law around a doctor's good faith opinion was motivated firstly by a concern about the health consequences of unwanted pregnancy and backstreet abortion for women and their families, and secondly by an unwillingness to legislate for abortion on demand. Women in Britain cannot obtain abortions 'just because' they want them

And yet I worked with two women who had abortions that were "just because." One was just because her husband said they would have to cancel the order for the conservatory if she went ahead with the pregnancy because they couldn't afford it. The other had booked a big holiday and the pregnancy would have prevented her going.

I don't suppose they told the doctor their reasons but they were both quite open talking about it.

Doctors aren't omnipotent. I got an irate phone call from the specialist dementia psychiatrist when my elderly relative told him she had caught two buses to get to her appointment and he had to arrange safe transport home for her. He was most annoyed with me that I had put her in such a dangerous position. I asked him to check with the hospital transport office as she had been collected by their service and taken to the appointment. Quite honestly if a specialist like him can be convinced by a woman who was complaining about the little men who lived in her loft keeping her awake and that her husband had risen from the dead I'm sure doctors can be convinced of lots of things.

TheGoodFighter · 30/09/2022 10:19

ancientgran · 30/09/2022 10:16

And yet I worked with two women who had abortions that were "just because." One was just because her husband said they would have to cancel the order for the conservatory if she went ahead with the pregnancy because they couldn't afford it. The other had booked a big holiday and the pregnancy would have prevented her going.

I don't suppose they told the doctor their reasons but they were both quite open talking about it.

Doctors aren't omnipotent. I got an irate phone call from the specialist dementia psychiatrist when my elderly relative told him she had caught two buses to get to her appointment and he had to arrange safe transport home for her. He was most annoyed with me that I had put her in such a dangerous position. I asked him to check with the hospital transport office as she had been collected by their service and taken to the appointment. Quite honestly if a specialist like him can be convinced by a woman who was complaining about the little men who lived in her loft keeping her awake and that her husband had risen from the dead I'm sure doctors can be convinced of lots of things.

So what? Women can terminate a pregnancy for any reason. Or no reason. It's not your business. Dr's don't even ask half the time, it's a formality.

RosettaTheGardenFairy · 30/09/2022 10:39

Yes. Unfortunately it's broken my relationship with my sister which is a shame.

Mumsnet is very openly pro-choice. I was on the May 2022 pregnancy thread, but left when one of the posters who got pregnant on purpose, changed her mind and it became an abortion support thread for her. There were a few of us who left feeling the same way though.

TheGoodFighter · 30/09/2022 10:47

RosettaTheGardenFairy · 30/09/2022 10:39

Yes. Unfortunately it's broken my relationship with my sister which is a shame.

Mumsnet is very openly pro-choice. I was on the May 2022 pregnancy thread, but left when one of the posters who got pregnant on purpose, changed her mind and it became an abortion support thread for her. There were a few of us who left feeling the same way though.

You've lost your relationship with your sister because of your wish to control other people's choices?
Surely that should make you rethink your views..or at least make you keep themselves to yourself? I can only imagine how you upset your sister so much that she can't continue a relationship with you.

RosettaTheGardenFairy · 30/09/2022 10:55

TheGoodFighter · 30/09/2022 10:47

You've lost your relationship with your sister because of your wish to control other people's choices?
Surely that should make you rethink your views..or at least make you keep themselves to yourself? I can only imagine how you upset your sister so much that she can't continue a relationship with you.

She's had 3 abortions (that I'm aware of) because she forgot to use contraception. I've no desire for a relationship with her. I don't wish to control her choices, I simply choose not to support them. That's my right. FWIW, I supported her with the first one but lost interest after the second.

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 30/09/2022 11:02

I've no desire for a relationship with her.

Then why is it a shame it's broken your relationship? Ultimately your sisters abortions have absolutely nothing to do with you. If you don't want to support your sister, that's your choice. Just be pro life for yourself, leave others to make their own choices.

Softplayhooray · 30/09/2022 11:07

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

@DancingSunflowers we do not have the right to control each others bodies, and we also have NO right to judge each other. Why? Because we have imperfect information about another woman's situation, so to judge them from our perch is breathtakingly arrogant, and also cruel.

For example, you don't know what it is like to be raped as a child by your dad, then left to give birth to your own brother with a body too immature to carry it. Do you?

You don't know what it's like to be told a desperately wanted baby has birth defects so severe that the life of the baby will be hell, full of pain and suffering. Do you?

And you don't know what it's like to be told that if you continue with a pregnancy, you are very likely to die, which would leave your existing 4 and 8 yr old motherless for the rest of their lives, do you?

So the answer is, while on an abstract basis it is fine to feel exactly as you do, and you have every right to hold your opinion for yourself, judging other woman whose shoes you have never walked in is disgusting. Making them feel like murderers is disgusting. And doing all that from the high perch you have assigned yourself, as if you have that right (you dont-none of us do) is just awful.

TheGoodFighter · 30/09/2022 11:13

RosettaTheGardenFairy · 30/09/2022 10:55

She's had 3 abortions (that I'm aware of) because she forgot to use contraception. I've no desire for a relationship with her. I don't wish to control her choices, I simply choose not to support them. That's my right. FWIW, I supported her with the first one but lost interest after the second.

She's better off without you.

RosettaTheGardenFairy · 30/09/2022 11:19

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 30/09/2022 11:02

I've no desire for a relationship with her.

Then why is it a shame it's broken your relationship? Ultimately your sisters abortions have absolutely nothing to do with you. If you don't want to support your sister, that's your choice. Just be pro life for yourself, leave others to make their own choices.

I guess I meant it's a shame for our parents who wish things were different; it's a shame for my sister I think as she's written to me several times over the years expressing how sad she is not to have a relationship with me or my kids (I've 3 kids born after we lost touch). Just a shame in general that family relationships breakdown, over this or anything. Just... a shame.

But I stand by my opinions & feelings. Others are of course free to do with their bodies as they will. But they're not free to demand I support them, listen to them talk about it, or maintain a relationship with them after they've told me.

RosettaTheGardenFairy · 30/09/2022 11:22

TheGoodFighter · 30/09/2022 11:13

She's better off without you.

I'm sure she is. As far as I know she has a lovely group of friends who I'm sure support her in all the ways she needs.

pointythings · 30/09/2022 11:31

@DancingSunflowers so the video you saw was clearly of a late term abortion. Those are always going to be distressing. In the UK, less than 2% of all abortions happen after 20 weeks (which is when they would resemble your video) and all but the tiniest handful of those are for medical reasons where either the mother's life is in danger or where the pregnancy is incompatible with life.

I have a friend who had a termination at 26 weeks. Because of delays in diagnosis, the pregnancy continued for longer than ideal. Her much wanted and planned baby had a condition incompatible with life which would have led to it dying within hours of birth, in considerable pain.

So you would have wanted her to carry the pregnancy to term, go through birth and then watch her baby die as a better option than a termination? There's a word for that: cruelty.

gnilliwdog · 30/09/2022 11:32

@TheGoodFighter have you ever been for an abortion? Yes there is criteria to fulfill around the risk of injury to the mother's physical and mental health, but doctors in the UK do not make gaining an abortion in the early weeks difficult. It would be dangerous to make women think so. By and large if you go to a doctor or provider and are distressed by the idea of a n unwanted pregnancy, you will be helped and can have an abortion. That is effectively on demand. If you are in danger of losing your life an abortion will be carried out under a different category.

TheGoodFighter · 30/09/2022 11:36

gnilliwdog · 30/09/2022 11:32

@TheGoodFighter have you ever been for an abortion? Yes there is criteria to fulfill around the risk of injury to the mother's physical and mental health, but doctors in the UK do not make gaining an abortion in the early weeks difficult. It would be dangerous to make women think so. By and large if you go to a doctor or provider and are distressed by the idea of a n unwanted pregnancy, you will be helped and can have an abortion. That is effectively on demand. If you are in danger of losing your life an abortion will be carried out under a different category.

Why are you explaining to me me exactly what I said? I said they don't even ask you why you want one, they just sign the forms.

gnilliwdog · 30/09/2022 11:36

Sorry, that was to @Friedgreentomatoeshere who said abortion in the UK is not available in the UK, effectively on demand.

micey · 30/09/2022 11:39

Very sad to see that many on this thread don't seen maternal mental health as life threatening if forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy.

Laughingravy · 30/09/2022 12:29

nancydroo · 29/09/2022 17:14

The pro-life pro-choice debate doesn't seem to be as divisive in the UK as in the US. It's more about an individual's private business and not really discussed as much. I've therefore never given it any thought about which side I'm on.

Religion is way more prevalent in the slanging match debate in the US,. There's a much bigger proportion of the population have faith of one flavour or another and religion is most often pro life.

PugInTheHouse · 30/09/2022 13:19

There just be a tiny tiny % of late abortions that aren't for serious medical conditions so the opinions of these 'pro lifers' are meaningless to me and many others no doubt.

I also believe there isn't a big % of people who have abortions as an easy way out of using contraception so IMO this isn't enough to take away choice for a huge majority of women.

I know several people who have had abortions, one very late due to horrific abnormalities that took a while to diagnose, very traumatic for all involved. Another was a close friend who has serious medical conditions herself and fell pregnant whilst on contraception, 30 years on she is still traumatised by it but knows she had no choice. How on earth can anyone think it is better for either of these people to not have an abortion. I have not seen anything on here to give a good reason to go ahead with these pregnancies. As for anyone who thinks that not having an abortion at 12 yrs old after being raped is ok is not worthy of an opinion at all.

Watching an abortion on TV is no reason for disagreeing with it, most surgeries are not good to watch but surely the reasons behind that late term abortion are important and perhaps the lessons we learn from watching it are important also. If I had watched a c section before I had one I am not sure I would have wanted to go through with it but it potentially saved my child's life. Abortions can be life saving surgery so who has a right to argue with that.

Friedgreentomatoeshere · 30/09/2022 13:27

@TheGoodFighter "No abortion involves taking a life. Life begins at birth and not before."

I disagree, as no-one knows when ensoulment happens.

candycaneframe · 30/09/2022 13:32

Friedgreentomatoeshere · 30/09/2022 13:27

@TheGoodFighter "No abortion involves taking a life. Life begins at birth and not before."

I disagree, as no-one knows when ensoulment happens.

Plenty of people know when ensoulment happens

The 10th day of never

ancientgran · 30/09/2022 13:35

TheGoodFighter · 30/09/2022 10:19

So what? Women can terminate a pregnancy for any reason. Or no reason. It's not your business. Dr's don't even ask half the time, it's a formality.

Maybe read the post I was replying to. I wasn't offering an opinion on it I was merely pointing out that the previous post saying Women in Britain cannot obtain abortions 'just because' they want them That wasn't my experience and it obviously isn't your either so we have both clarified that.

Friedgreentomatoeshere · 30/09/2022 13:38

@candycaneframe "Plenty of people know when ensoulment happens
The 10th day of never"

So you don't believe that humans have souls ?