Is anyone on here pro-life?

[DancingSunflowers]

Just wondering.

This doesn’t help for me because seeing this on the screen after a really long time of trying to conceive brought me so much joy and it was my baby. When I lost that little bundle of cells the year before, my heart broke.

I am pro-choice but I believe the foetus is a life from the beginning and that’s why I personally couldn’t have an abortion.

There were a lot of girl babies aborted in China and it has, up until recently, been very liberal around abortion. It would be interesting to know if the abortion of female foetuses was the mother's choice or if others pressured them. Some would say if a society doesn't want girls it's better that it is easy to abort them at any stage, although that seems anti feminist in other ways.

I'm pro choice, in the sense I think termination should be available on the NHS, as the alternative, ( illegal backstreet abortions, women buying dangerous, unregulated abortion "pills," online is horrendous).

However, I do think we need to be acknowledging more that abortion is a serious, trauma inducing procedure for many women, and the U.K government urgently needs to look at what it can do to bring the abortion rate, ( and accompanying trauma), right down.

In 2021 there were 214, 256 abortions in England and Wales, compared to 624, 828 live births. I'm sorry , but approximately 25% of pregnancies ending in abortion is a tragedy for women's mental health, the sanctity of life and shows that somewhere, we are going very, very wrong. The government need to be promoting better access to long-term contraception, sex education and support for pregnant women as a matter of urgency after those statistics, ( because I'm sorry, this is not 214, 256 12 year old rape victims).

However, I am very suspicious of the pro-abortion lobby on Mumsnet. Have seen far too many threads where women deemed to be pregnant in anything less than ideal circumstances are hounded for not getting / not wanting an abortion.

Threads where people openly discuss pressurising/ "encouraging," late teen family members who desperately want to keep their babies into an abortion. A complete refusal from the pro choice brigade to acknowledge that abortion is often incredibly traumatic for many women, and indeed, the shouting down and/ or silencing of women who wish to discuss post-abortion trauma on Mumsnet.

I think it is also forgotten, that many, many men/parents force / coerce or pressurise vulnerable women and girls into abortions they don't want - ( again this is apparent from many Mumsnet threads). I find the pro choices on Mumsnet often aren't ready or willing to acknowledge that forced/ pressured/ coerced abortion is a real problem in the U.K, and it is actually a feminist issue.

Having readily available abortion is not a "win," for feminism, when it is still considered perfectly acceptable for families to pressure teenage girls into abortions they do not want, or for men to pressure partners or ex-partners into abortions they do not want. And I'm sorry to say, I find the pro choice protestors on Mumsnet frequently want to silence anyone who raises this point.

In that case, is it better for the baby, for the woman to have an abortion or is it better to have the mother have the child, the baby being born and then the baby 'unfortunately' die because its not wanted as a girl??

I agree.

I think it is better that women are not pressured into aborting girl babies. Neither of the options you present are good, but I don't think the Chinese government was being benevolent in allowing abortion so liberally. I would say the abortion of female babies is a crime against women and not a triumph for women's choice at all.

Agreed. So often abortion is used as a tool of extreme violence and oppression against women; and yet we are meant to celebrate something that is very often forced on and emotionally damages women as a "feminist," victory at all costs.

However, I do think we need to be acknowledging more that abortion is a serious, trauma inducing procedure for many women,

I think I agree here, that there is a tendency to describe it as a quick, easy procedure with no after effects. That may be true for some, but I am sure there are others who found it painful and traumatic. On another note, why isn't there a massive campaign to encourage men to use contraception? Women carry all the burden and suffer most.

On another note, why isn't there a massive campaign to encourage men to use contraception? Women carry all the burden and suffer most. ^
^
But abortion isn't just a form of contraception. More often it's a life saving procedure for the mother. Most of the moderate 'pro lifers' have issue with late term abortions, but most late terminations are for medical reasons. Not many women get into their second or third trimester and decide they no longer want their baby. And you're right, at times, they are traumatising procedures and experiences for women. The whole idea of having to terminate a baby to save your own life or because they're not compatible with life is traumatic. But it's necessary. Ectopic pregnancies end in abortion or death to the mother, non viable pregnancies end in abortion. These are common pregnancy issues, more common than people realise. Encouraging men to use/consider contraception makes no difference in these situations. Preventing access to safe abortions is always harmful to women!

of course I'm pro life but that's my choice but by fuck I'm pro choice. 1 x dc has opportunity to go to USA to study. wont be fucking happening! if you don't agree with abortion, don't have 1. simple!

It's also a bit of a demographic nightmare isn't it. A society that is really unbalanced could lead to all sorts of social problems and eventually it could die out.

But abortion isn't just a form of contraception. More often it's a life saving procedure for the mother.

I didn't know this. I thought we had abortion effectively on demand in the UK up to 24 weeks. Are there figures to show that most of these abortions are to save the mother's life? If that's the case maybe I am wrong to think men should be more encouraged to use contraception. The women I know who have had abortions were not in danger of death from pregnancy. They were things like too poor, too unsupported, at the wrong time in their lives. I think they needed that option and it's right we have it. But contraception is not easy for all women. Some can't tolerate the pill or hormones, the coil can cause problems. I don't really see why all the onus should be on women to prevent pregnancy.

@gnilliwdog no one is saying the onus for contraception should be on women alone. But abortion is NOT contraception. You can look up the figures for abortions and the 7 categories they legally have to fit into on the .gov website.

Yes, I looked at figures for 2021 but I don't see what you mean. It says 98% were performed under Ground C which states 'That the pregnancy has NOT exceeded its 24th week and that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated, of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman.'
There are other grounds which are definitely life saving, but Ground C is not. So, I don't see what you mean when you say 'abortion is more often a life saving procedure.' I never said it was contraception, but suggested if men were more likely to use contraception women might less often have to use abortion.

Yes, I think China is grappling with this now. India too, possibly.

I'm Pro-Life which doesn't mean forcing anyone to do anything.

@gnilliwdog 'I thought we had abortion effectively on demand in the UK up to 24 weeks.'

No we don't.

The construction of the law around a doctor's good faith opinion was motivated firstly by a concern about the health consequences of unwanted pregnancy and backstreet abortion for women and their families, and secondly by an unwillingness to legislate for abortion on demand. Women in Britain cannot obtain abortions 'just because' they want them

I genuinely think that you have absolutely no idea how desperate women who want an abortion are that they feel the need to go through with it.

When you think back to the days before the abortion act in 1967 when women risked their lives to get rid of a baby they did not want, how can you say that? You clearly live in a comfortable bubble of knowing that you can care for a baby. These women don't.

To most women a foetus of a few weeks old is just a clump of cells not a baby.

It was horrible because it was clearly a human being violently killed

Your hysterical rhetoric isn't going to convince anyone that the abortion act should be repealed.

Abortions save women's lives. Campaigning against and preventing accessible and safe abortions harms and kills women! I am pro woman and I am pro women's rights.

@micey No abortion is 100% safe.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/abortion/risks/

Ultimately abortion is about rights, personhood, equality and choice. Every abortion involves taking a life.

I had one. I know what it entails. I also know it wasn't a baby, it was a fetus that could have potentially become a baby. It was, in essence, a clump of cells. If you are against abortion, that's fine, as long as that's only for you. It's none of your business what someone does with their body.

I have read here: As early as possible, as late as necessary which I think sums things up pretty well.

Most people who want an abortion want one ASAP, nobody wants to hang on until week 18 or whatever.