Think I regret doing CPR.

[RegretfulFirstAider]

I wasn't sure whether to post this, in case it puts people off from doing CPR, when it can be a life saving thing to do.

Earlier this year our elderly neighbour came round to ask with help lifting her dh who had fallen. I went round to help. He was unresponsive, grey and not breathing. I phoned for an ambulance and they talked me through doing CPR. It was very traumatic.

Miraculously he survived and came out of hospital. But he wasn't the same afterwards, though he was struggling with falls beforehand. I think he wished I hadn't done CPR as he told me how awful life was afterwards.

Since then he had a huge and very rapid decline decline and has now gone into a carehome, no longer recognising people or where he is. His life is terrible and it is awful for his family to both witness and manage. I suspect he suffered brain damage as a result of what happened.

I feel so very very, guilty. I feel as though by resuscitating him, I turned his remaining life into hell. I know I couldn't have foreseen the future, but it doesn't feel as though it was a kind thing to do.

@EgonSpengler2020

I don’t disagree with your sentiments about peaceful death I think you’re being unfair in regards this particular incident. You have a level of comfort around medical treatment and death that a great many people don’t have. You can assess a person and see that they’re gone beyond the point of help and have the experience and qualification to back up any decision to refuse CPR or to cease CPR. The fact that the OP attempted to resuscitate her neighbour and was successful despite the small odds is something to be proud of. It was not her place to decide that his quality of life did not warrant that small chance. It was a conversation for him and his wife to have before that day came. I agree that as a society we are too far removed from death nowadays and we should all have these conversations while we can.

(The call handler / dispatcher is just going through a tick box exercise as we know )

Do not feel bad op you did your very best at the time and if you hadn't have tried you would have been feeling bad that you didn't attempt to save his life. Doing cpr can be a very traumatic experience for some people and I would recommend speaking to someone as you possibly have ptsd from the experience. Well done for saving the man's life.

@EgonSpengler2020 Are you an NQP?

No. I've been in nearly 2 decades, long enough to know that we (the UK) don't do death and dying well in many cases.

If you read my first reply and other replies you will clearly see that I have acknowledged several times that it is not OP responsibility to make these decisions or change things, but that doesn't mean that change isn't desperately needed.

Why are you an NQP?

Exactly. Hind sight is a wonderful thing and you did what you thought was best at the time.

I do feel that @EgonSpengler2020 has made sure to reiterate that they feel it wasn't my responsibility to decide.

The circumstances were really complex and difficult at the time. It wasn't a straightforward situation. I do feel better than I did about it though, once I'd opened the door and went round to help I can't see any point at which I could have made a different decision. This thread has made me see that now.

You did an amazing thing and I wish I had revived my dad when I did cpr on him 29 years ago. BUT he died and I now realise that was probably better as he would have hated being less than he was iyswim? BUT you did the absolute right thing and I still believe in life even if the life turns out to be less. You are not a fortune teller. Your best was amazing. I still wish I'd saved my dad. Xxx

If you are registered HCP, not a paramedic. You know more than me in your role but someone was cautioned by the NMC for not performing CPR on someone who was cold and stiff. Horrific. I bet the Queen had a DNACPR. 999 call handlers will tell members of the public to perform CPR to cover themselves. I have a living will if I've had no oxygen for prolonged period of time causing significant damage let me go. The public seem to think performing CPR is a cure not realising that hypoxic brain damage is awful A few people on this thread have said at least the family got to say good bye it's not about the family it's about the person having a good death. Utterly selfish. I hope my family members have a quick death to be honest.

@Meili04 If it’s the case I’m thinking of, that nurse wasn’t sectioned because she didn’t perform CPR. She was sanctioned because she couldn’t explain or justify her rationale/decision not to resuscitate. Big difference and an important lesson for HCPs that if you can’t adequately explain why you’re making a decision, you shouldn’t be making it.

Call takers tell people how to do CPR because that’s what is on their script. They’re simply doing their job. It’s not to ‘cover themselves’…they’re not clinicians.

@somethingischasingme I bet you do. That sounds as though it was so very hard.

That’s a really good point.

I think another thing to bear in mind is that morally you didn’t really have a choice - you HAD to do this. You couldn’t just stand by and NOT attempt cpr so it wasn’t a decision you made per se. Please don’t let his subsequent decline make you doubt what an amazing thing you did. CPR is rarely successful so to be able to bring someone back from the brink like that is a miracle and you should be super proud of yourself.

You are talking about a different case I'm talking about the 2017 one 24 month caution where she found the resident "waxy , yellow and cold"not the 2020 when that one was suspended for 12 months as it was a sudden collapse. Reading through the case the second one, the GP had talked about discussing a DNACPR as she had suffered ongoing decline but hadn't got round to it yet. It depends if the clinician feels they will get support from their employer many don't. You are right call handlers aren't clinicians. I think it highlights how these difficult conversations need to be had much earlier in the UK.

OP you did what was right at the time and most likely what 999 told you to do. You did amazing for him to survive. He didn't have a known do not resuscitate, so at the time you did what you needed to do

If it wasn't appropriate medically to attempt CPR, or he had decided and agreed with doctors it was something he didn't want, he would've had a DNACPR form. As presumably he didn't (and this would include if he did but no-one told you and you weren't to know), you have done an amazing thing and the right thing at the time.

If he has declined mentally in the months after he has come home, from the starting point of any noticeable changes when he first came home, then he probably has other reasons for continued decline and needing to have nursing care.

I think you would benefit from some counselling to talk this through, preferably with someone who understands this type of situation.

Hi OP, I'm so sorry for you and your neighbour and his family. My view is that you just didn't have a choice. If an ambulance call handler told you to do CPR, I think almost anyone would have just done what you did and followed their instructions as best they could. Can you really imagine anyone in that position saying, "no, he might get brain damage and if he does his life would be crap afterwards, so I'll leave him to die." It just wouldn't be human nature. So the fact is that it wasn't really your decision. I don't know if that can make you feel any better.