Think I regret doing CPR.

[RegretfulFirstAider]

I wasn't sure whether to post this, in case it puts people off from doing CPR, when it can be a life saving thing to do.

Earlier this year our elderly neighbour came round to ask with help lifting her dh who had fallen. I went round to help. He was unresponsive, grey and not breathing. I phoned for an ambulance and they talked me through doing CPR. It was very traumatic.

Miraculously he survived and came out of hospital. But he wasn't the same afterwards, though he was struggling with falls beforehand. I think he wished I hadn't done CPR as he told me how awful life was afterwards.

Since then he had a huge and very rapid decline decline and has now gone into a carehome, no longer recognising people or where he is. His life is terrible and it is awful for his family to both witness and manage. I suspect he suffered brain damage as a result of what happened.

I feel so very very, guilty. I feel as though by resuscitating him, I turned his remaining life into hell. I know I couldn't have foreseen the future, but it doesn't feel as though it was a kind thing to do.

I agree with everyone. You did the best you could.

I would hazard a guess that there never was going to be a good outcome for you in this situation.

Don't do CPR and feel guilty for that.
Do CPR and feel guilty for bad quality of life after.

Frailty is a very common reason to have DNACPRs in place because the process of CPR is absolutely brutal on the body of a young person, never mind an elderly person. Most of the time CPR won't be successful in the Elderly and if it is, recovery is difficult (broken ribs, bruising and brain damage).

I don't know why so many people still have their head in the sand when it comes to arrangements for DNACPRs.

I think what I would do if I was you would be to acknowledge your feelings of guilt but also let yourself off the hook. You did what you had to do and without the DNACPR in place you'd have felt so much worse not "helping". This really is not on you.

You are being harsh on yourself. In the moment you did what was asked, probably demanded of you.

In situations like this you can only make a decision based on the information you have at the time, which you did. You are experiencing a stress reaction to the events that have followed and your brain has linked the two together. There is nothing to suggest this decline wouldn’t also have happened if he had never had the cardiac arrest. I think you need to access some counselling.

On another note, I just want to clarify that Paramedics will not resuscitate everyone regardless. It doesn’t matter if a DNR is not in place. If we reasonably believe that resuscitation would be futile and not in the patients best interests we do not have to perform CPR.

If this has been triggered by some other life events then it feels like an intrusive thought to me. You can google how to overcome that if you can't immediately access counselling.

For me, I acknowledge that I'm having an unhelpful thought. Tell myself that I couldn't have done anything differently. Breathe for a couple of minutes. Remind myself that I'm an imperfect being who makes mistakes but tries her best. Say 'thanks' to the thought for dropping by and then I get up and do something, like playing with the dog or tidying up the post or putting a song on.

Obvs everyone has their own way and you don't have to talk to yourself like an eejit but it works for me. It's OK to find this hard, it was a traumatic thing for you

Oh you poor thing

I actually think the ambulance service should not have put you in that position

My mum has a DNR but is hoping to go when neither of us are around as she is worried we will be pushed into things

when my dad was dying, it was like they bust a gut to eke out every minute of a miserable life. I presume the medical profession do this to avoid being sued.

you did nothing wrong.

i know mumsnet is anti-hug but I’m sending a hug anyway.

I think the trouble is we’re so programmed to find solutions and right answers, when often in reality there is no ‘right’ thing, just…a load of things, each with their good points and their awful points. You did the best you could at the time, in line with his wife’s request for help and the instructions of the emergency services. There was no way of knowing what his subsequent quality of life would be like, and a chance it might’ve been brilliant which I can’t imagine throwing away.

therapy/a chat through would definitely be a good plan at some point. I was involved in preventing a friend’s suicide and I’m still not sure I did a kind thing - they have survived nearly 10 years and live with ongoing, life-limiting mental illness with episodes of psychosis and delusion which are terrifying. I think sometimes it was selfish of us as friends to try and force them to stay. But death is also shit, just differently so. It’s hard to live with, but time and talking both make it easier. Xx

I’m so sorry 💐 As everyone else has said you did the only thing you could do in the situation.

My dh has told me to stop thinking about it. For a while I hadn't really thought about it, other life changing things happened for us very shortly afterwards, but as that settles now, but it has recently suddenly hit me.

This bit struck me a bit. Sometimes when life changing things happen such as bereavement or illness it can leave you with a sense of loss of control and being a bit of a passenger in your own life. I wonder if now time is passing there is a sense of that which makes you look at this situation more as it was something that you feel was in your control if that makes any sense at all?

This. Once the neighbour asked for help and 999 had been called you had to do CPR. My father was terminally ill. He had a DNR letter signed and witnessed which he carried in a pouch on his belt. We had discussed it as a family. We had agreed that if he had any kind of episode that needed an ambulance we would not call one until he had died. If a neighbour had been called, or an ambulance, then efforts would have to have been made to save him. He didn't want to be saved. He wanted it to be over. You gave help because it was asked for. You did your best. Many,many older people who are saved don't live well for very long afterwards.

You saved a life, and that is an incredible thing to do.
But it is an extremely traumatic situation. Healthcare workers always have a debrief after such an event, and I really think you need something similar. It’s really important to be able to talk through your feelings with someone. I would contact your GP to ask for a local counselling service.

You have also bought the family time to get affairs in order and to say goodbye, which they wouldn’t have had without your actions.

You did a really good thing, be proud of yourself.

It's not for you to make those kind of choices for him.

But you are responsible for your actions. How would you feel if you hadn't performed CPR and he died then? How would you look at his wife thinking you could have done more to try to help?

You did the right thing

Then can I gently suggest you have a few sessions of counselling.
Forgetting about it isn’t going to work, esp as they are your NDN and you knew them well.

Er………that’s the call takers job. To talk people through giving CPR if the incident appears to require it. They have a script to follow and they’re not clinicians. They don’t force you to do it. 🙄

However this serves as a good reminder why we should all talk to our loved ones (particularly older) about the realities of elderly life, do not resuscitate orders and the reality of prolonging life when people are already elderly. It doesn’t work out to be the best option

I somtimes think the NHS needs telling too.

You did the right thing with CPR 👍

Might be worth chatting to someone about this as you may have PTSD

Do not beat yourself up, you did the right thing 👍

The guilt would be there either way OP. I once had the same choice and didn’t do it (I was quite young and I just couldn’t. I couldn’t do as instructed over the phone and I was feeling faint from the circumstances so didn’t). I felt awful but I know it wasn’t my fault

I think they give this advice to try cpr as standard. They told my husband to do this when he found his dad not breathing. His dad was already gone but because there was some residual warmth to his chest, they urged him over the phone to try and my husband now lives with horrendous flashbacks of trying and failing to move his body out of an armchair and giving cpr to a dead body. Fucking awful.

In truth though, I've said the same to him that I'll say to you: you tried your best to save him. You were put in that position and did what you did with the best intentions.

It is not your burden to carry alone. His wife was there. She could have stopped you at any time. It was also her decision. I feel she is primarily the decision-maker and you just the instrument.

There are a lot of really wise and kind people here. I'm glad I asked, but I'm very sorry for any sad or troubling memories it has bought up in others. The responses have made me cry, which is a good thing, because it was stuck inside me before.

Its possible that this will out me, I wasn't sure whether to post it as well. I've name changed, so hopefully people won't link me to my usual name on here. A week after the incident, I was diagnosed with breast cancer. It has been a good outcome, I've finished the treatment now. At the time there was no chance to process it at all because I was thrown into total terror with my diagnosis. I think as I emerge from treatment, my feelings are all cascading now.

It hadn't occurred to me before that if I hadn't done CPR, then it's possible the ambulance crew would have resuscitated him but he might have been worse. The dispatcher did her job very well in her instructions and the ambulance arrived very quickly. Thankfully.

Im very glad our neighbour asked for help. It's just hard,

And honestly, when discussing what happened with wider friends and family, I heard a couple of similar stories. One was a friend who's elderly mother had been told to try cpr on her husband, despite the fact she told the operator on the phone that he had a DNR and was clearly gone.

All I can add is you did the best you could with the information you had, in the situation you were in at the time. If you’d don’t nothing he’d have died there and then and you’d be forever asking yourself should you have tried.

@Greenapplesandpears . Be kind to that younger you. It wasn't your fault.

I felt awful for years I was only 18 and I froze in panic then was overcome with nausea and nearly fainting it was dreadful . Someone else came along to help but I felt for a long time that I was to blame not acting quick enough

Green and Plain

I am horrified by your stories. Green, were you under 18?

are ambulance suggesting or pushing? I bet I can guess.

I really don't understand this perspective. If your mum has a DNAR and the 999 caller/ ambulance crew are aware of it they will not expect you to do CPR, nor will they do it themselves.

I was 18 at the time. I had called and they were telling me what I had to do and I just looked and thought no I can’t I’m going to be sick I felt faint and they kept repeating to me what to do and I couldn’t see or hear properly from the stress and nearly fainted