The Kardashians have reached a new low

[bluetongue]

Apologies if there ‘s already a thread about this.

Top story on Daily Mail website shows Khloe Kardashian in a hospital bed with her newborn son. Only problem is she used a surrogate. It’s bad enough men trying to erase women but when a woman tries to airbrush the birthing mother out of the picture it makes me feel a bit sick.www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-11238003/Khloe-Kardashian-gives-intimate-look-arrival-baby-son-shes-accompanied-sister-Kim.html

There is also a good thread by a prostitute, very harrowing and disturbing. But you believe that women selling their bodies is fine as there are a few happy endings. Oh and let's not forget the actual buying of another human.

If a women chooses to sell her body that’s her choice.

Some of us believe that a women should have a say what happens to her body.

Absolutely all of this post!

I don't really see the issue. Lots of jobs are also risky but people will take the risk for the right money.

Interesting how none of Khloes rich sisters acted as her surrogate isn’t it? It’s an indefensible practice. History will judge us harshly for allowing it, I just hope it isn’t for much longer.

Some of us believe that a women should have a say what happens to her body.

Sadly the majority of prostitutes are coerced by either pimps, trafficking, need for drugs/money so do you think these women also choose?
The Belle de jour fairytale is just that.
Plus it only reiterates to the misogynistic men of this world that women are only useful for our bodies, prostitutes prove that idea and therefore our lives are worthless hence the 100s of women murdered every week around the world.

So what about the buying of a baby?
I had twins a few years ago would it be ok if I had sold one for £20,000?

Because they are told to be by mass media brain washing

Yeah, you're usually the buyers.

It usually isn't her choice, that's the problem.

Some of us believe that women's bodies shouldn't be up for sale because of a patriarchal stereotype that covers only a tiny minority.

Some of us also don't believe in buying babies.

I’m coming round to the opinion that surrogacy should be banned.

No one has the right to a child.

You don’t pay to have a surrogate either.
You cover the costs of them not being able to work etc. but it all has to be checked that no extra money is being handed over.

You can call it expenses all you like but its literally money changing hands for the use of a womans body and the purchasing of a baby.

Surrogacy isn't about a woman's right to do things with her own body. It's about other people's wanting to do things with her body. Things that carry very real risks and permanent changes.

The other thread about surrogacy talks about the effect on the child

Don’t see an issue.
It’s her son and she’s just in the hospital bed holding him.

Do you honestly think that some incredibly selfless woman happily swept aside the risks of pregnancy, the possibility of life-changing injuries or even death to give the Kardashians - THE KARDASHIANS - a baby out of pure, selfless altruism?

Being unable to carry a child, if that's what you want, must be heart-breaking, but you're not going to die as a result.

Organ transplants / blood transfusions etc tend to be a wee bit more life-threatening.

No one needs to "use a surrogate" (ie use a human being) because no one needs a baby, they just really really want one. The end doesn't justify the means, no matter what happened that meant someone is unable to have a baby naturally. It doesn't matter that all adults are consenting, the baby's needs are not put first, because if they were, the baby would not be separated from his or her mother, and yes this means the woman who carried and birthed the baby.

They are a hideous family but I do think she had fertility issues and couldn’t carry her second child even though she really wanted to.

Pro surrogacy advocates give even less of a shit about that.

There was one the other day who said she didn't consider the surrogate the child's mother. I asked about what happened if the child did. She told me that the child would be wrong and her opinion overruled the child's and anyway it didn't matter.

Can't link to it, sadly, because the posts were deleted for being abusive. Beyond dictating how surrogate-born children should feel, I mean.

These are nice people.

The surrogate is not the mother though.
She’s just someone who Carried the baby who isn’t biologically connected to her.

Sadly the majority of prostitutes are coerced by either pimps, trafficking, need for drugs/money so do you think these women also choose?

Of course there is.
But there’s also many men, women and children who are coerced into doing porn, modern day slavery, selling drugs etc.

But there’s also people who want to sex sell, do porn, sell drugs or work for money - it’s literally their choice.

MN has this weird issue and believes that all women have absolutely no day over their bodies, which is absolute rubbish and it’s often those who say it are actually the ones telling women what they can and can’t do with their bodies.

just someone who Carried the baby

Tell me you know fuck all about gestation, pregnancy and labour without telling me...

But there’s also many men, women and children who are coerced into doing porn, modern day slavery, selling drugs etc

What's your point?

Do you believe its right to buy and sell a baby?

The surrogate is not the mother though.
She’s just someone who Carried the baby who isn’t biologically connected to her.

How bloody reductive of the stress and strain pregnancy and childbirth place on the body! If it's a 'just carrying the baby' task why does it need to be done by someone else @TwinkleChristmas ?

But there’s also people who want to sex sell, do porn, sell drugs or work for money - it’s literally their choice

Selling drugs is illegal as it prostitution and the distribution of porn that involves children or animals or those who are being coerced/drugs.
Why are these things illegal if its choice that matters?

And what @ReneBumsWombats said!

"Just" someone who carried the baby.

No biggie.

Do these people hear themselves?

JFC.

Selling drugs is illegal as it prostitution and the distribution of porn that involves children or animals or those who are being coerced/drugs.

Why are these things illegal if its choice that matters?

Selling certain drugs is illegal - selling others aren’t.

Prostitution isn’t illegal - you just can’t do it on the street.

Adult porn isn’t illegal either and hopefully I don’t need to explain why child porn is illegal.