Ukraine Invasion: Part 31

[MagicFox]

31st thread, welcome all and thanks as usual.

This is something that has been worrying me: where are the Urainians to put all the prisoners, or do with the Russians who surrender as soon as possible and don't at all want to fight them, never did? and how are they to tell the two categories apart?

If he's put money into the result in Sweden then he's wasted it. We don't have a far right win. The furthest right are Moderaterna (tories) who are less right than the UK government. The Sverigedemokraterna are the ones being portrayed by the UK media as far right but they're an authoritarian centre right party. Both parties want NATO membership, continuing EU membership, and fully support Ukraine.

Really helpful context here!

This thread really does show the value of worldwide views being part of this conversation.

Just wanted to register my absolute gratitude for all contributors!

Also worth pointing out that culturally Sweden has never strayed from seeing Russia as our number 1 threat. They've been like the raptors in Jurastic Park constantly testing our boundaries looking for the weak points. We have an emergency alarm system which is tested every couple of months and is there to warn us that the Russians are coming. We all know where our nearest nuclear bunker is and where the civilian arms caches are. It's culturally unthinkable for any party to take a position that favours Russia.

I am not sure why the BBC feels it is necessary to allow this propagandist to have a platform almost unopposed; Steven Sackur didn't push him, and let him get away with downright lies repeatedly.

Anyway, I far preferred a different Popov: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleg_Popov

That’s amazing! I never knew that!

Me too.

Its like in Finland with the military training of conscripts - 'the enemy always comes from the East'

We had an incident in the 1980s where a Russian nuclear sub ran aground close to one of our military bases. The Russians claimed it was accidental but the Swedish military were extremely concerned that the Russians were routinely invading Swedish territory. Over the following years radar picked up multiple incursions but we could never find the actual Russian sub. It nearly came to diplomatic blows because it was getting completely out of hand. Then scientists realised that the Russian subs being detected by the radar was in fact shoals of farting herring. We nearly went to war over flatulent fish.

Also worth pointing out that culturally Sweden has never strayed from seeing Russia as our number 1 threat. They've been like the raptors in Jurastic Park constantly testing our boundaries looking for the weak points.

I'm old enough to recall the incident in 1981 when a Russian whiskey class sub ran aground in Swedish waters while monitoring a Swedish naval exercise.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_submarine_S-363

That was really brazen.

Ukrainian women need to get over themselves. I'm pretty sure the Russians that are fleeying mobilisation are not doing it to get access to Ukranian women in Ireland.

I'm sorry but this has to be one of the funniest things I've ever read, seriousness aside of course. Although frankly farting fishies seem a more sensible reason to go to war than any of Putler's reasons.

On the question of giving air time to Russian propogandists, this links in to some of the discussion in the podcast I flagged above about the nuclear threat. It was basically about how we make the risk of nuclear war part of the national conversation, as it was in the Cold War and as it seems to still be in places like Sweden, to take some of the fear of the unknown away. Its about giving people back a sense of power without scaring them shitless.

They flagged that this is something the US already do better than the UK, for example by issuing advice such as this - www.ready.gov/nuclear-explosion (note there are similar pieces of advice about a range of potential disasters).

This is quite an ignorant comment. If these women have fled from the war then it is likely that they themselves, or people that they know, will have been impacted by the gender based violence that has been a particular characteristic of this war. These women, rightly or wrongly, are likely to associate Russian men of fighting age with sexual violence.

Damn unpleasant comment. A lot of Ukrainian women know people who have been raped or murdered by Russians. Or experienced it themselves. And Russian males can be aggressive - as has been proven.

It tends to give a very bad impression.

"get over themselves" is aggressive and dismissive.

The comments by Serbia, Kazakhstan and Israel that they won’t recognise the referendums are interesting. All have generally friendly relations with Moscow but are clearly getting their ducks in a proverbial row and don’t see the dice as falling with Russia.

Serbia in particular really can't do anything than refuse to recognise the referendum, given the Kosovo situation.

Funny how people who have been at risk from rapists don't feel comfortable about people rather similar to ther apists they were justifiably afraid of, really.

I think you need to spend a few days in a Russian filtration camp to really understand the situation.

Good interview with retired four star David Petraeus on the corner Putin has backed himself into:

@Igotjelly

I'm sorry but this has to be one of the funniest things I've ever read, seriousness aside of course. Although frankly farting fishies seem a more sensible reason to go to war than any of Putler's reasons.

Submarine activities worldwide are generally shrouded in secrecy and also the authorities don't like to say to much about what they can or cannot detect so it's hard to really unravel stories like this...

You do often hear unclassified reports/anecdotes of "biologicals" - fishes and whales - causing complications for those trying to monitor submarines but given the timescale and varying circumstances I'd seriously doubt all that was reported off Sweden (and other coastlines) over the years was simply down to fishes farting or similar...

BTW in the context of the story as was told upthread radar is only of use in detecting submarines if they are on the surface, it's AFAIK no use at all use in detecting submerged submarines...submarine detection generally but not always done by acoustic methods.

The U.S. Embassy in Russia is calling on its citizens to leave Russia immediately.

This was just retweeted by Dr Chris Parry who has said things are getting serious now ! The U.K embassy advising the same .

@Greenhillsfaraway This was reported on earlier this afternoon. See below from BBC...

"The US embassy in Russia has issued a security alert for its citizens in Russia, warning that the authorities may refuse to acknowledge dual nationals' US citizenship in the wake of the partial mobilisation announcement.
Russia may deny their access to US consular assistance, prevent their departure from Russia, and conscript dual nationals for military service, it says.
The embassy also urged US citizens not to travel to Russia and said that those living or travelling in the country should depart at once "while limited commercial travel options remain"."

Thanks for clarifying that .

I'm amazed any US citizens are still there. Except for those who leaked US intelligence to Russia and are avoiding justice!!

My mistake, I meant SONAR or whatever the system is called that detects pulses undr water.. But anyway, it's not a urban myth. It was research carried out by Magnus Wahlberg and Håkan Westerberg at the Institure of Coastal Research and National Board of Fishies in Sweden, funded by the Swedish navy who wanted to know the source of the pulses they kept detecting.
www.academia.edu/25843210/Sounds_produced_by_herring_Clupea_harengus_bubble_release