Prince Edward

[Turefu]

There’re threads about Charles, Andrew and Anne, but none about Edward. Why is that? He was in his older siblings shadow, no heir like Charles, no Olimpian like Anne and no dashing was hero like Andrew. Seen as a joke with his tv programs failure. Yet he came up as the most stable out of Queen’s children. The only one, who manage to create happy marriage, stayed away from
scandals, he did his service without holding grunge against his lower royal position. I like his wife Sophie too. I think they both deserve more credit that is given to them.

I agree it was Philip and Louise that were close. Only on MN have I seen I said it was the Queen.

I knew him well a long time ago.

The rumours about him being gay are false.

I remember him being kind and shy and fond of his friends.

I met him after he left the marines and he never ever mentioned it to me. I expect it was a subject he did not wish to discuss.

I met Sophie quite soon after they met and I think they make a great couple.

She made a massive mess up re the fake Sheik incident but they seem to be a happy family.

He wears medals because he has various honorary military positions.

He was on a ship though, well when he wasn't on his helicopter. If a ship is hit and on fire I don't think there is a safe place is there? If you are hiding down below you are more likely to go down with the ship if you are on deck more likely to burn.

The navy is different to the army, I can see what you mean with Harry, although I have no idea if he was protected in anyway, but I think if you're on a ship you are all in it together.

My father served on north atlantic convoys and Russian convoys and his only advice was if you want to join the navy don't learn to swim, better to drown fast if the ship goes down. The shouts and screams of drowning men haunted him.

@ancientgran Out there are very different views about how much at risk Andrew was during the six-week Falklands War. I don't know the answer. He was certainly at some risk, you can't be flying helicopters or be on a ship during a war and not be at some risk. But how much risk I do not know.

As much risk as anyone else on the ship I suppose. Ships got sunk, men got killed. I don't think anyone would know which ship was going to be targetted.

I wonder if the men on his ship would agree that they were all protected because of him or if it is just grumbling from men on other ships who wanted a grumble?

re the Falklands, Andrew..etc etc

If he was going to be kept completely safe he would have either been disembarked at Portsmouth before the Task Force sailed or been put ashore at Ascension. He wasn't, he stayed onboard Invincible and served in the theatre of conflict, from what I've heard operated in the roles for which he was trained.

He was as much risk as all those on board HMS Invincible from action by the Argentine Air Force and the Air Arm of their Navy, (risk of Exocet attack etc) and possible submarine attack (considered a very remote threat for a while)..

He faced the additional risk of flying down there in crap weather in demanding conditions etc ...that resulted in at least one helicopter lost in an accident, a couple of Sea Harriers also lost probably due to bad weather, also one allied helicopter shot down by our own forces with the crew killed when it was mistaken as being hostile.

So whilst it would be true to say PA probably wasn't in as much jeopardy as some other aircrew and those in the infantry and the RM who went ashore on the Islands themselves he sure as heck wasn't tucked up safely in a bunk or in bed and was in more jeopardy than many who were in theatre...he earned the campaign medal.....

His personal life is another matter.

Thank you, that was very informative. I didn't know the details but that seems perfectly reasonable to me.

I agree his personal life is another matter.

I always remember when my husband met Douglas Bader, a war hero and a film was made about him which further enhanced the legend. My husband said he was the rudest, most unpleasant, arrogant person he'd ever met. He was still a war hero and incredibly brave and courageous man though.

@ancientgran

re Bader and

"My husband said he was the rudest, most unpleasant, arrogant person he'd ever met."

Commonly held opinion, similar for one or two other heros of that era.

Really? I didn't know that, I just remember my husband's reaction. He's also been very surprised at some politicians and royalty when he was in charge of policing when they visited our area, one he felt would kick your body out of the way after you took a bullet for him and some were lovely. Princess Anne and Margaret Thatcher were in the lovely group, he said Margaret Thatcher was very nice and thanked them all for the care they'd taken of her. I'm not sure which would be top with him but I control my jealousy.

It's an odd question, but if Edward does get made The Duke of Edinburgh does that mean his son James will be the Earl of Wessex? Or does it not work like that?

No, Edward's son won't inherit it until Edward's death.

I would have thought it would mean his son becomes Prince James of Edinburgh if he choses to use it. Prince Charles was Prince Charles of Edinburgh.

Duke of Edinburgh doesn't seem to be a title that gets passed down.

It did get passed down. The then Prince Charles became Duke of Edinburgh on his father's death, but never used the title. When the Queen died, the title merged with the Crown, and so is currently available for redeployment.

So if conferred on Prince Edward, it would one day be inherited by Viscount Severn. Who has been entitle since birth to be Prince James (as grandchildren of a monarch in the male line can all be HRH Prince or Princess) but the Wessexes opted not to use them. I don't think it's terribly likely they're going to start using them now

He would have the choice of styling himself Prince James (as he could already as a grandson of a late monarch) or continue to use Viscount Severn which is a style traditionally used by the son of the Earl of Wessex.

DofE was inherited by Charles from his father but like PoW reverted to the crown when he became King.

x-post with Edith

He wouldn't just be Prince James would he, it would be Prince James of Edinburgh

Just the same as it was Prince Charles of Edinburgh, Prince William of Wales, Princess Beatrice of York, Prince Michael of Kent.

None of them a just Prince / Princess

Thank you all! It's so interesting. I'm glad I'm not the one who has to keep track of it all.

It's completely fascinating stuff all these weird traditions.

Are you sure DofE went to Charles?
Because the Queen in her many titles had Duchess of Edinburgh?

OK Wikipedia says I'm wrong, Duchess of Edinburgh was removed when she became Queen.

They must have got Duke/Duchess of E when they got married. Duchess got binned when she became Queen

She was born Princess Elizabeth of York,

When the Queen became Queen that was the only title she used. Any other titles she’d been given or had merged with the crown. She was still technically Duchess of E as she was the wife of the Duke. When he died she’d have been the Dowager Duchess. A monarch doesn’t use any other titles though.

The Duke of Edinburgh retained the title because it had been bestowed on him just before his marriage to the Queen. When he died it went to Charles as the eldest son. When Charles became King all of his previous titles merged with the crown so are available for granting.

I didn't know that Charles had become Duke of Edinburgh when his father died. Did he just not use that title? And is it only now that he's become King, so doesn't use the other titles, that he is allowed to 'give it away' potentially to Edward? Or has it already gone once he became King, so it's not giving it away/renouncing it himself, but just giving an unattached title (I'm sure there's a better word) to Edward.

And if he does give it to Edward, then when he dies won't it automatically go to James, if it's a hereditary one that passes on like that? It would be strange if it was automatic from Philip to Charles, but not from Edward to James.

I think it must automatically go to James if it's one of those kind of titles.

He just didn’t use it, he had umpteen titles that he didn’t use.

yes, when titles merge with the crown then they’re not in use anymore. Hence being free to pass on - that’s how William instantly became Duke of Cornwall, and was able to be created Prince of Wales.

so he could create Edward as Duke of Edinburgh.

Thr automatic passing on depends on the creation. Generally they are created to pass on to eldest sons so in that case it would pass to James.

There have been a few that didn’t follow that path in their creation (Mountbatten’s Earl of Burma title for example specifically included a clause passing it to his eldest daughter as he only had girls), but that would be highly unlikely.

Surely they must run out of Duke titles?

As I think that eventually they'd want to create Duke titles for the Cambridge kids, even if it is in 20 years time.

Does York get passed down, or recirculated? Although it's a bit tainted. 😐