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Mum still in lockdown !!

269 replies

Kissingfrogs25 · 11/09/2022 18:20

I am getting so worried about my mum. She is in no way vulnerable, in good health and 72 years old, she lives with my dad, for context she smokes, but is a healthy weight no issues.

Mum has been in lockdown since early march 20 and has not been anywhere inside or outside since this date, she says she is too terrified she will die of covid. She has had all vaccines, its the only time she has been inside a building. She cuts her own hair, hasn't been to the dentist, doctor (will speak on phone if needed) in all that time.

She won't even eat a takeaway in case its contaminated

What on earth do I do? I managed to get her to call the dr, who put her on antidepressants and other medication, but this hasn't changed anything.

I have been meeting up with mum outside, but even then she looks nervous. My dad is not allowed to go anywhere either.

It is now getting colder, I didnt see her for eight months last winter because it was too cold to sit out. She won't even see her friends, the few she has left have to sit on a bench in the park.

Anyone else in this position? What can I do? The years are going by and I feel like I have lost my mum 😥

OP posts:
unitywardrobe · 07/10/2022 13:36

@Paragon59 I knew someone who adopted a similar approach/response. They were very, very frightened of Covid and its potentially harmful effects. They researched obsessively, locked themselves away and in the middle of it all, died from a heart attack. Those last few months could have been spent with family, or outdoors or just simply enjoying life's little pleasures but the person isolated themselves to prevent death, but ended up dying anyway.

It is impossible to eliminate risk from your life. You might catch Covid but equally, your house could blow up in a gas explosion or you could suffer a sudden unexpected health crisis.

If this way of life does not bring you joy, then I think you need to seek help. I'm sorry that you're living in self-imposed exile.

Paragon59 · 07/10/2022 20:47

I couldn't quote message from this morning without the whole of one of my long posts being replied to being included within it and taking up more space on the thread, therefore I am copying parts below.
It's been said earlier that I am the only person on here with this view and everyone else suggested to be in the real world. However, this is a thread about people still being in lockdown and people on here are largely people from the outside world, that not in lockdown, and discussing how to deal with someone who is. I eventually came on here to put the 'other side', hoping to explain why some people might still be in lockdown. Therefore I will be the only person with this perspective so the fact I am the only person saying this doesn't mean anything - it will be the case by definition.

"Isn't Covid over yet?"
Er, no. Leaves me wondering where people have got this idea from and how they expect that Covid will be over. At what point is Covid ever "over"? There seems to be some strange meaning of the word "Covid" being used - one that doesn't reflect what is actually reality.
Although unfortunately no use to yourself, such ideas may threaten the booster programme that is now taking place:
www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/21/covid-is-over-attitude-may-threaten-autumn-booster-uptake-england-scientists

And - speaking about much of the rest of the country it seems - www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/17/why-are-we-pretending-that-covid-is-over
Unfortunately the autistic person says with the truth and doesn't need to pretend anything to myself that isn't true (indeed this was the problem from normal life about a decade ago, when no-one else cared about mental health when my mental health was damaged, instead of being comfortable with the things around me that effectively were denying something that I knew to be the case, I could not pretend to myself that it wasn't and that elephant in the room, repeatedly and often for years and years on end, repeatedly made me extremely uncomfortable instead - the very opposite it now seems of what most people would have got from it - and eventually - it took a very long time - caused one of my long-term health conditions).
Is "Covid" some period of time that is being equated with official lockdowns? If so, this is very very strange idea to me and no-one in the world outside my home has ever made this clear to me. I don't accept this attempt to redefine the English language anyway as it enables people to say it is over when they have done not nearly enough against Covid to have done anything about it.
To me, Covid is never over as long as there is any Covid at all around and Covid has been hugely prevalent in the UK all year round throughout the past year, including the most Covid ever yet recorded at one period at the end of March 2022.
Nonetheless, I hear on the news yesterday another shop owner claiming that we are "coming out of Covid" (whatever "Covid" now is) - people have been claiming this for months and months without us ever in fact doing so. Far from coming out of it, they now say this at the very time when we are currently going more and more into Covid yet again, with infections rising once again in this autumn wave that, clearly is too soon to call it a winter wave due to the plain fact we are in autumn - leaving me wondering what world other people are now in?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-63170006
We're now being advised to "avoid vulnerable friends, colleagues and relatives" and we have what might be called the 'protect Granny' message back (to which I expect other people's response will be "I thought the vaccines had changed all that?")
There are numerous things in the official statements in that article that I challenge, which I can't go into here as not about people in lockdown so sadly I must leave the incorrect/misleading information being circulated more, suffice to quickly say I dispute everything in the "vaccine uptake" statement (more commonly-held perceptions that are actually incorrect) and disagree with the flawed advice only about symptoms and people feeling unwell as significant transmission of the virus happens without symptoms (responses that focus on symptoms have been wrong throughout the entire pandemic and therefore continue to be wrong today).
The world hasn't returned to normal, to return to something it has to have been something that happened or was done before, and it isn't normal by anything done before the pandemic to have constant Covid around.
"The streets are busy" - would make it even more difficult to be in the streets and be socially distancing (in accordance with the virus being here and the risks of transmission increased), especially as other people likely to be assuming no-one is socially distancing anymore (a weird idea I know). I am doing everything in accordance with the virus being here and changing levels of risk and taking on my own personal responsibility since the Government put this onto me, against my wishes, early this year. It just goes on and on, whilst people wrongly think it is over. Where did that message it was over come from?
People doubtless think the vaccines have solved it all, seen that is such an easy and simple message. Meanwhile, all the above and people thinking it is over making it ever not is another thing that is keeping me in lockdown - I was simply never led (misled) by the messages in the media, including claims that were never substantiated for which I am still waiting for any evidence, instead I continued to listen to scientists throughout. I therefore never rushed back to normal and never joined people doing so but simply remained here, listening to the scientists and take appropriate precautions in accordance with the continued risks, and there was never any point at which I came out of lockdown as the risks continued at too high level, I wasn't convinced that I would have to accept high levels of virus now in Omicron, as Fergus Walsh of the BBC once claimed we would, as I do not have to accept any such thing and I do not do so. It is unacceptable. I want people to do something about the virus and then we wouldn't have such high levels that people are trying to have me accept, including the extra deaths and disability that doing that involves.
So I stayed here, doing the right thing in accordance with the changing levels of risk, only increasing and increasing my measures as the rest of the world increased the risks, and then, several months into it, they suddenly out of the blue and retrospectively claimed to effect we were out of the pandemic, something I never knew and which has no scientific basis to it - it is pseudoscience. Unsubstantiated claims by non-experts as against the views of legitimate and qualified experts, on a par with something like climate change denial. Denial as to the current continuing existence of the pandemic, also now established by us being in yet another wave and therefore not at a stable state (and stable at the high levels of virus we have in this country is a bad thing, bringing with it an increased burden of disability and death compared to maintaining much lower levels that we have never seen all year).
"We have all been out and about." I haven't. Not everyone has and I'm not within "we" there. People are talking about themselves and numerous other people doing the same as they are. Again, "We have all been out and about" is the sort of statement that I would treat as rhetoric, intended to convince me that we're all doing something when in fact we are not. It is intended to get people to think that others are all doing the same and to join them, even if it may be unwise or dysfunctional to do so. I am not convinced by the emotive attempt that would underlie such a statement were it to have come from some official or politician trying to get me to serve their interests in doing nothing about the virus, and maintaining these high levels that are a greater risk to the whole population.
I've seen the propaganda, unfortunately many people are influenced on an emotional basis as shown by research and are easily influenced by it, especially when it wants them to do something they so want to do anyway, which is get back to their own normal life:
www.newscientist.com/article/dn14946-never-gamble-with-an-autistic-opponent/
www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-fallible-mind/201708/why-advertising-falls-flat-in-individuals-autism
Again, what evidence have people got that Covid is over, other than the incorrect beliefs of numerous people including those likely influenced into believing this false idea?
"Complicit" was broadly the way all the official bodies seem to support each other and the politicalised Government rhetoric, including conflicting with earlier information and going back on themselves and changing back again, depending on whatever the Government wants us to do/not do at any moment - which has been obvious* on the journalism content on the BBC News narrative and underlying and running underneath it throughout the whole pandemic - they will allow scientists on air (when they had them on more when Covid was a bigger news story) and allow them to challenge the narrative, yet, even after they have done so, the journalists' reports still claim the debunked official messages. To explain what "complicit" actually means would unfortunately take pages and pages and pages and numerous evidence in support of everything claimed by me - I haven't got time to do this and I can't do it on here.

How can I afford not to go out?
It depends in what sense you mean "afford". I can understand for most people they may feel they can't afford not to do their social interactions and that may be what you mean. Otherwise, if you mean afford in terms of money, in theory I afford more by staying in, I don't have the cost of restaurant meals, pub food and drink, concert tickets etc., although in practice my grocery bills actually increased when I went into lockdown as I relied on delivery services (from when I could get them - after stocking up with enough food for a few weeks just before I went in) as money-saving was not the priority once the virus was allowed to hit and it is still obviously difficult now with cost of living.

Covid is actually on the news at the moment I write - although the scientist hasn't identified the main factor I think is responsible for new wave, which is people's widespread normal-life behaviour. The news presenter says we aren't hearing much about Covid from the Government - which is the whole point as they have given up and aren't dealing with the crisis now starting to underfold (perhaps not quite there yet). Proving the point, the presenter got it wrong over the booster programme, saying it was over 65s. It is actually people aged 50 and over, but that's the point we are hearing little about it, although for example healthcare workers and carers are eligible for boosters even if they are under 50.

We now have this strange concept to me of "vaccine fatigue" although I did myself feel like a guinea pig when being jabbed with my third shot last year. Jabbing and jabbing and jabbing, the Government's only answer every time, which, as "we" (obviously not everyone else) have been saying from the very start will not work and vaccines alone will not get us out of this pandemic, and so it has proven to be in fact, as vaccines are only part of the solution.

With what seem to be so many largely ill-informed/misinformed/uninformed people on here, it may be that I am one of the few people that is right about what I am doing in relation to the virus, although I'm not suggesting everyone else should be in lockdown and actually the scientists aren't even saying that either. The ending of restrictions is seen by several non-fringe scientists, but not all, as being a political decision and nothing to do with science.

*I suspect it has passed over most people and not struck them at all, including the use of emotive language, as people generally are influenced by the emotions on which it is playing, which doesn't work with me at all as I don't actually have a normal emotional response, instead I see right through it, very inconveniently want actual proof for what is being claimed and quarrel and quibble with

Paragon59 · 07/10/2022 22:47

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 07/10/2022 12:31

Interesting you say 'switched on and switched off,' @PerfectlyPreservedQuagaarWarrior because that's exactly what it was. We were being programmed to be terrified and with some people it's gone too far and can't be reversed or switched off.

"being programmed to be terrified"?

A conspiracy theory.
Given that someone else accused me in effect of being conspiracy theorist.

Almost all of what I have seen and heard on BBC News has been exactly the opposite of programmed to terrify, at least since the official lockdown started to be removed. Unfortunately I can't go into it and completely blow what you've said out of the water, because it would be way too detailed, with numerous evidence of different programmes, and not relevant to people being in lockdown or why they might be so.

I now understand that people are heartbroken by their relatives being in lockdown and unable to see them - I am sorry that this clean-failed to come across to me from the original post due to my autism although really it ought to have been obvious, to someone like myself unfortunately it wasn't, it is obvious now that I think about it and I think there may be these nuances between frustrating/heartbreaking/upsetting in which there are these very clear differences when to me it isn't clear what it is. Apologies therefore for myself responding wrongly and further apologies for what I've now just said probably also being wrong even after I have spent probably 15 minutes writing and rewriting and trying to get the words right, omitting stuff that might just compound matters more and then probably still being on the wrong track.
It may actually have been made worse by my likely deletion - I don't think I did post it - of a long post that I just scrapped entirely and never posted yesterday because it went way off topic.

Therefore, you wouldn't have known that in my lockdown I've often not been concerned for myself, instead I've been concerned for relatives and whether they are coping or not with how long they haven't seen me. It is not me not seeing them that I am concerned about but them not seeing me, because I know this has a very serious impact on most people very much more than it seems it does with me and that when I have spoken to them over the phone throughout my lockdown I have asked them how they are coping and whether they are okay.

It is/has been a very difficult time I can't even say everyone because I am sure when I write that there is always someone who will then say no, because often when I hear people say "we are all doing this" or "everyone is doing that", I am not actually doing what they are saying everyone is doing, or I am doing something (still acceptable not affecting others) that they are saying no-one is doing, so instead a very difficult time for the vast vast majority of people, and in fact there are times I feel bad at it not being as difficult for me as perhaps I think it 'should' be, I think I have it too easy and that that is not right, even though people think it must be hard for me in lockdown - it probably is hard for those that have been in lockdown longer than the vast majority of people and also hard for people from the vast majority that have people not seeing them anymore - difficult all round. I regret that I can't give an answer to this and need to think about it and I am extremely sorry not to be able to say anything more useful.

I've now spent ages and ages before deciding whether to post in the way now written, and then I am probably putting myself to extra difficulty and making the simple things complicated as usual whilst the complicated things are normally easier, as this post is being considered extremely carefully and then it is still probably wrong; I have reordered it and put everything above that puts everyone else before myself having had experience many many years ago that more recently been clear I made the mistake of putting things in the wrong order - to me the ordering makes no difference as it is all the same information but to 'everyone else' it matters hugely although maybe I am worrying about this more than I need to, because in my life away from here, I have found other people, who aren't on the spectrum, have expressed things that don't comply with the 'correct ordering for people not on the spectrum' that I have set for myself and therefore if it had been me than was writing instead of them, I ought to have got really upset as they are trying to excuse themselves and not apologise.

That is the sort of thing where I pay real attention to order now, and then find perhaps I am wrong again. Anyway, I think I am tying myself in knots, ones that other people don't have to deal with because they just know the right way and I am on the spectrum.

Having intentionally mentioned about everyone else first, because that's most important, I will end by putting myself last and just a few comments about what has been said about me and perhaps other people in lockdown: some people on here have described me as being in fear, anxious or being worried about Covid etc.

I have no fear, anxiety or worry about Covid in me at all. I feel entirely neutral with no emotional feeling whatsoever, even if this may be difficult for most people to understand, perhaps because they do experience some emotional feelings over things that usually I have no feeling one way or the other about and then something really bothers me that bothers no-one else at all.

I am quite fine and neutral and I avoid being in fear, anxiety and worry by not catching Covid. I am not afraid of it at all as it poses no risk as long as I can stop it reaching me and, anything, if I was anxious, which I am not, it would be reasonable to be anxious about a virus that is as prevalent as it is in our society, although also reasonable not to be. This seems to be this divide in society between the vast majority of people now thinking they are in normal life and those of us still in lockdown because some of us are at much greater risk and some of us may assess the risks to much - no surprise and small wonder to me given how much Covid is here and all sorts of characterisations being labelled onto people in lockdown such as they must be afraid, they are in fear, anxious or mentally ill.

I don't know if different 'sides' to this is even helpful, I am trying to be and I apologise for all and any failings of mine and for causing the upset that this has caused.

Paragon59 · 08/10/2022 00:01

On rereading the original post, it does say that mum is terrified of dying. She does need reassurance that the vaccines make this very very unlikely. That's what they deal with. I am probably not being very helpful because this is the obvious and I suspect you've already done it.

Takeaways are fine - the virus doesn't live on food. (Don't tell her that I am concerned about the containers and wash them with soap or else, if it is a meal to heat up, very carefully put it into the oven and make sure I wash my hands thoroughly if I can't actually wash the container given that it has food in it. Surface transmission isn't the major concern anyway and I don't even think there is any recorded instance of it but then there wouldn't be as people often don't know where they caught Covid from. Perhaps that airline cleaner at New Zealand's border in the early part of the pandemic that shook the clothing from the high risk area countries and that was how it was believed might have got back in. The reason I do what I do is for complete security and my attempt to prevent the virus. People will say I can't do this, but so far it has worked.)

Unfortunately I am mentioning myself again and only because I have had clinical depression (many years back) and this is an attempt to be of use based on my own experience (which is all I have). The doctor has put her on antidepressants, but is she actually depressed?

I do not ignore doctor's advice lightly (except I ignore the health service on Covid but that's a different matter). However, one of the extremely few times that I ever ignored the doctor or, rather, didn't take their advice, was when I decided not to go onto more antidepressants that they prescribed. That was the only time I didn't put a prescription in. I did take both the original antidepressants/ beatblockers for several years, plus the further prescriptions when my medical was upped later, immediately after someone compounded the situation. The time I didn't put the prescription in was right at the end of my clinical depression, many years ago now. It was one of the best decisions I've made. My not following the doctor's advice was not done lightly and was only done after I had considered the matter quite a lot. I felt that the antidepressants were actually meaning I wasn't normal and that coming off them might be the way to end my depression. It worked, because I haven't had depression since - although I have not got other conditions but they arose from something completely else and therefore coming off the antidepressants hasn't caused this - instead it has meant I am not on antidepressants all my life and I don't have clinical depression now (haven't had it for many years).

But...
It depends what the situation is. I have a relative who has mental illness and that really is mental illness, coming off their tablets will not work as they just get worse and worse if they forget to take some and it doesn't go back to normal for them instead it is the start of their illness, after their breakdown, at which they ran out of the house and caused mayhem to everyone around and were actually unsafe. To some extent they still are, even on the tablets that they do have to be on, and we have to do all sorts of things in order to stop them causing harm to themselves - even though they aren't a harm to everyone else (other than putting extra work onto everyone to have to go round after them and the things they're not able to do - it can be exhausting). The tablets control their condition and make sure they don't do what they did at the start back again, but when on tablets they are not normal. There is no way I will ever get my relative back to what they were. It is now this and it continues for decades. He is alright when he is on the tablets but very limited in what he does/can do (although some of this may be because he has been discovered to be autistic as well - he was clearly far better though before he had the mental illness) and he does keep doing things that cause extra clothes to have to be washed despite being repeatedly asked not to do so. I can only keep mentioning it every time but it never sinks in and either I have to catch it before it happens but this not always possible and then it happens yet again.

The reason I am thinking the antidepressants for your mum may not have changed anything might be because your mum doesn't have depression. Now, I know doctors know best and I have no clue, I am unqualified, just my experience with depression though and how it helped me to ditch the tablets altogether - but only when they had been useful for many years and I had got better. And at that point then come off them rather than keeping on them as my doctor advised (I think that would have still left me being ill if I had). It is absolutely inappropriate to come off the tablets for my relative and we're not ignoring doctors on that.
(In fact, I didn't ignore them - I took account of what they said and in the round made my own decision based on other factors too - such as I felt I was now much better and felt I would actually be back to normal if I stopped the tablets, they are what keep people in situations like my relative's, but for him, it is necessary and cannot be stopped).

You also refer to other medication and I don't know what that is, so you know the full situation and I don't - and therefore you know better than me hopefully how to deal with it, if not and if you feel able to do so, I will be happy to help in any way I can and what happened was that others on this thread replied to your post and then I replied to other matters that they raised in their posts and failed to return to your original post to address that and I am sorry for the situation of what happened in my failure to address your post.

If she is depressed, maybe counselling would be something appropriate? Whether by itself or in addition to the medication (seek doctor's advice).

Counselling sort of worked with me but ultimately failed with me - but only because I disputed what it was telling me, which would never be said to people if they were in a different situation so didn't see why society said it to me in mine, basically told me I had to change how I perceived what others did, rather than telling the others that were doing the unacceptable thing that they were and continued doing it around me to change instead and to cease doing what they were doing - which only ceased when they made it finally impossible for me to ever be at the places they were doing their conduct in - and then basically excluded from being able to be in these normal life environments, which I found quite unacceptable on top, but no, society never changes, it is always me that has to do so, actually those normal life environments were later shut down in the lockdown and of course I can't do to them now not only because I am in lockdown and places in our society have failed to make themselves safe but it would likely set off my PTSD and be a very distressing experience indeed for me given that that was what one event caused after around 10 years of constant such things every week every time I visited and no respite at all behind any of it, and by distressing experience I mean more than an entire week of incessant extreme heart-racing and no way to stop it - one set off of it in normal life later caused 9 consecutive days of that, woke up every day still there and didn't go until over that time later - and never truly goes but is still underlying in me somewhere today, 13 years later - in fact it was October it was caused: October 19, 2009.

Mum being nervous (I assume you have got that spot-on as I assume mum isn't on the autism spectrum and also assume you are not too) - different things make different people nervous but with me I can imagine how I am nervous if someone approaches me particularly without warning - I don't want my father to come round and ever be in the house without mask etc. - because yes I start to see everyone outside of my home as a threat to me now as everyone poses a risk of transmitting to me the virus. I am not actually surprised that she is nervous, because I would probably feel like that. It must be terrible for dad not going anywhere as well.

I hope your mum can be reassured about the vaccines abilities against death, perhaps after she gets another booster now. Whilst I've criticised reassurance, it is actually justified here because the vaccines do provide very strong protection against death. I think she does need reassurance but I know nothing as these are those things as myself autistic does not experience. I would be reassured about protection against death, although probably still want you to wear a mask. I'm sorry, as I know that's completely inadequate.

Meanwhile no-one could reassure me about the vaccines against long Covid because unfortunately they don't provide enough protection against that that I would like! That doesn't seem to be her concern and therefore ought in theory be easier as the vaccines do deal with death (I think she is at lower risk of long Covid than some younger people but would have to check what scientists say and sometimes it changes) - people ought to see if their concern is death that the vaccines are very effective although people are usually very different to me and are not rational - you know your mum best.

If she is looking nervous, the obvious again - talk to her and find out why and what you can do for her to help her not be. I think go at their pace and also don't rush her.

It's very difficult this pandemic and its fallout. I am very sorry for not replying to address your post and to deal with the questions you raised.

Kissingfrogs25 · 08/10/2022 07:45

It is fine paragon and I understand that covid has changed your life and outlook so much, but you do seem at peace with your decisions.

I will be glad when my parents have completely recovered, so they can see for most people, not all, that covid is a mild illness and most people will recover fully. I have one or two friends with long covid, which isn't ideal, but they have made a few adaptions and continue with normal life more or less. That is not the same for everyone I understand. I was seriously ill after glandular fever as a teenager, it took a very long time to recover. Many illnesses and viruses can be like this.

My mother is depressed, very depressed after spending her life in her prison/home and she has developed rashes with anxiety and stutters with nerves now. She has become a nervous wreck. Being locked away has seen a physical decline in her health notably she can not walk far and has lost a lot of muscle density, a mental decline in her cognitive and social skills and a huge emotional cost of being cut off from her family and friends for so long.

Now she has covid, she can see the sacrifices she needlessly made very clearly and she is very upset about it. She now sees those years as lost years, rather than her previous opinion that she is saving herself from a deadly disease.

OP posts:
ClaudineClare · 08/10/2022 08:02

Oh kissingfrog, that is so very sad to read. Your poor mum and poor you. I hope your mum can manage to overcome what has happened and find some joy in life again.

Kennykenkencat · 08/10/2022 09:55

Paragon59

Waiting for all Covid virus to be eliminated
is like saying that you won’t go out until the common cold is no more.

People have their inoculations and they are supposed
to keep you from dying or getting Covid badly. Then they move on with their life.

Yes people die of Covid but people also die from crossing the road or driving

You can take precautions but the risk is always there. Would you stay indoors and never go out until all vehicles were gone.

The world hasn't returned to normal, to return to something it has to have been something that happened or was done before, and it isn't normal by anything done before the pandemic to have constant Covid around.
"The streets are busy" - would make it even more difficult to be in the streets and be socially distancing (in accordance with the virus being here and the risks of transmission increased), especially as other people likely to be assuming no-one is socially distancing anymore (a weird idea I know). I am doing everything in accordance with the virus being here

But it has. I know I am doing pretty much everything I was doing pre pandemic. I think most people I know are.

What do you mean by “constant Covid”
Do people think about Covid and social distancing when they are out.
Social Distancing is no longer a law as far as I am aware

I mean this kindly but the length of your posts give me the impression that you need to get out of the house more and talk to people.
They come across as someone who hasn’t spoken to anyone for years

SilverLiningPlaybook · 08/10/2022 10:11

I think for many oriole who are still hiding away, there were MH problems before Covid which have been made much worse by the negative media and scare mongering. For others, it is a convenient excuse not to socialise or do anything, because they prefer things that way. I know a couple in their thirties who won’t even allow their parents in the house. Even now.

Kissingfrogs25 · 08/10/2022 14:04

My mother didn’t have MH problems before and loves going out or did, more than anyone I know. She was terrified by the government propaganda and visuals of people dying along gasping for breath and she’s never recovered.

OP posts:
SilverLiningPlaybook · 08/10/2022 15:26

Kissingfrogs25 · 08/10/2022 14:04

My mother didn’t have MH problems before and loves going out or did, more than anyone I know. She was terrified by the government propaganda and visuals of people dying along gasping for breath and she’s never recovered.

That’s just so sad.

Kissingfrogs25 · 08/10/2022 18:13

To be entirely fair she was always a little afraid of hospitals, but not in an unhealthy way she had two children in one, and a few operations over the years. She doesn't love them but who does?

But the lines of people dying in ICU with hazmats around them on TV (which drs don't even wear now, and haven't for a long time) The images have burnt into her mind. She even still talks about lockdown like it is still here with things like 'people out there' and she can't believe her sister is going to a restaurant/busy shop/on holiday and saying her sister has always been the 'wild one'. As if it is really wild and risky to eat out. She speaks about it as if her sister is the biggest risk taker on earth to be exposing herself to the virus by being near actual people, although obviously she would never be unkind about her sister, I think she is afraid for her.
She won't even touch a takeaway delivery 'just in case' and I am worried even with her experience of covid being perfectly okay she will still continue as before. Sadly her outlook does seem pretty entrenched to me. I hope I am wrong.

OP posts:
RaininSummer · 09/10/2022 00:16

My mum told me today that I cant come in to visit now unless I test each time. Seem to be going backwards. I understand her worry but I really don't want to test every week so I can go and sit in the corner of her living room for an hour.

Kissingfrogs25 · 09/10/2022 06:38

The bbc published again yesterday ‘protect the elderly from covid’’ by some healthcare experts. This messaging really isn’t helpful for those still in lockdown

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-63170006.amp

This is probably why your mum appears to be going backwards

OP posts:
Paragon59 · 09/10/2022 13:22

Kennykenkencat · 08/10/2022 09:55

Paragon59

Waiting for all Covid virus to be eliminated
is like saying that you won’t go out until the common cold is no more.

People have their inoculations and they are supposed
to keep you from dying or getting Covid badly. Then they move on with their life.

Yes people die of Covid but people also die from crossing the road or driving

You can take precautions but the risk is always there. Would you stay indoors and never go out until all vehicles were gone.

The world hasn't returned to normal, to return to something it has to have been something that happened or was done before, and it isn't normal by anything done before the pandemic to have constant Covid around.
"The streets are busy" - would make it even more difficult to be in the streets and be socially distancing (in accordance with the virus being here and the risks of transmission increased), especially as other people likely to be assuming no-one is socially distancing anymore (a weird idea I know). I am doing everything in accordance with the virus being here

But it has. I know I am doing pretty much everything I was doing pre pandemic. I think most people I know are.

What do you mean by “constant Covid”
Do people think about Covid and social distancing when they are out.
Social Distancing is no longer a law as far as I am aware

I mean this kindly but the length of your posts give me the impression that you need to get out of the house more and talk to people.
They come across as someone who hasn’t spoken to anyone for years

However I haven't said I am waiting for all Covid virus to be eliminated. I just need it to get down to the same low residual level like we have with flu. We haven't had any such level this summer. Therefore I can't go about and treat it like the flu, because it isn't in the same state as the flu - it is much more present in every part of the country so accordingly I am treating it in accordance with the greater risk it represents. It also isn't a common cold coronavirus. It's a SARS coronavirus instead. Therefore it isn't like saying I won't go out until the common cold is no more. I have had both flu and the common cold many times - neither of which pose as much risk to me as Covid does. So I am treating Covid very differently to the common cold and I am neither waiting for all Covid to be eliminated nor saying I won't go out until the cold is gone.

Nonetheless, even if Covid got down to residual flu levels, I think Covid virus probably has something about it that means it won't stay this way like flu and thus will never be endemic. I am therefore waiting for the wheels to fall off and for the world to be trapped in this pandemic and never ever getting out of it and, eventually, for everything to collide with the reality and a different approach be taken that will be the way I've wanted from the start that people in total have rejected because they think they are right. I am looking to the longer term.

It does look like rather madness to me: a vast majority that have chosen to treat as if it is pre-pandemic - it seems this way to me partly because of the speed at which people are going - too fast - but also because people are treating it as if it is post-Covid, directly contradicting that they are supposed to be learning to live with Covid and therefore it isn't post-Covid.

My main concerns are neither about dying nor about getting Covid itself badly.
I think that deals with the rest - in that therefore the vaccinations do not address what I am concerned about most and therefore by themselves don't enable me to get back to pre-pandemic life. I keep having my inoculations in their only answer of vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate (which, as predicted, is not providing any solution) and, after getting my inoculations, I am getting on with my life. I am getting on with it here in lockdown, doing numerous different things and often hardly with time on my hands. I don't know why the assumption is being made that you can only move on with your life if you are going around completely as pre-pandemic normal. I've moved on with my life and I am doing so - other people appear to be unable to move on from previous normality and in that sense are therefore not moving on with their lives as they're stuck in the old pre-pandemic ways.

No, I wouldn't stay indoors until all vehicles are gone. Not only is the risk of being knocked over by a vehicle extremely lower than that of catching the virus. I am also also hypothetically able to look around me when on the streets and crossing the road (the chance of a vehicle colliding into me on the street is remote) - hypothetically given that the situation of me crossing the road isn't happening as I am in lockdown - whereas I am not able to see an invisible virus, so is not the same situation where the risk is really low when I can look across the road.

We'll agree to disagree on whether the world has returned to normal, even though I am with the factual truth that, by definition, it has not. "Normal", to be able to return to, was the world without Covid it. You can only return to something that has existed at some previous time. If that is not the case, you're not returning to it, instead you are moving into something and then calling that "normal". But it isn't a return to normal, because the world hasn't gone back to what it was. We now have a world with Covid in it. That isn't what was normal. Nonetheless I will curtail this here because there is no arguing with people that do not see what actually is the case.

People are inappropriately doing what they did pre-pandemic because we don't have the situation we had pre-pandemic. We have this virus circulating at these constantly significant levels. If most people are doing things exactly as they were pre-pandemic, and it does seem that tens of millions of people are doing this, the problem is that people are doing this. It is not as it was pre-pandemic and people on a mass scale appear to be under the mistaken impression that it is. (This is also why the public health officials are still issuing advice that very few people appear now to be following. Instead, people have got the impression of the lifting of restrictions - that haven't been lifted for me because allowing Covid like this imposes continual huge restrictions on me - means back to previous normal, compounded by the message of just treat it like flu. I blame the political leaders for this - political rhetoric is clearly what most people are following and not - I can't call it common sense because most people don't have it - rational sense instead.)

Constant Covid means Covid here in our society, especially as the continuous level of nearly always a million or more infections in our society, which is what we have had according to the ONS estimates throughout the entire of this year.
It has been there constantly - therefore constant Covid. If you don't think so, you've been in denial and are in a world that isn't reality.

In asking whether people think about Covid and social distancing when they are out, you can't see how things are for me as an autistic person. Most people work by intuition but, myself, I am unable to function without thinking about Covid and social distancing when I am out - or rather when I was out. I am fully aware of the real world however and I know that people vast scale do not think about Covid and social distancing. This only makes it even more problematic for me because, due to the fact people are not thinking about social distancing and are just going about as if they can just walk past me and not keep distance from me as a matter of social courtesy and personal responsibility and the right thing to do in an ongoing pandemic. People were never doing social distancing on the streets around me in the first place, they have never actually done it, the onus was always on me to be moving myself around and walking back on myself constantly, as if doing some strange dance, in order to stay the social distancing when that was being advised more prominently. It was never the law (at least not specially, although people's failure to socially distance and stepping into my space does harass, alarm and distress me so could be argued as to whether it was anti-social behaviour law being broken given the technical legal definition of "anti-social" - which seems now to define what is normally a social thing to do as being anti-social).

Given that we now have people behaving as if it is a free-for-all, it would be even more difficult for me to be out, because everyone is going to be breaking my distancing and not be aware of the fact I still need this and will just end up I suspect making me extremely distressed as well as exhausted. It is exhaustive having to avoid everyone by 2 metres especially more I suspect when we now have this situation as to how other people are going as thinking it is back to normal. It would now just be impossible - and, yes, I do have to do it. There isn't any other way I function as an autistic person that does have to actively think about this - I can't just go about my normal life as before because the virus is in fact here and to the levels it is (if it were lower like residual flu, then I could forget about it) - it would be dangerous for me to forget about it when in fact it poses the significant risks that it does and which are way more than crossing the road that is minimal risk especially as I paid attention when those situations used to arise in what was normal life.

Finally, my long posts reflect the fact that I am dealing with this in a detailed and comprehensive way and come about as a result of my autism. Firstly to deal with your last point first, I speak to or with people as often as I need to, which may be much less than most people but I can assure you it's not the case that I haven't spoken to anyone for years. In fact I may have had this at the start of my adulthood back in normal life. So, actually in normal life I hadn't really spoken much for years, in later normal life and in the pandemic years I've spoken much more than I did before. The impression you get is therefore entirely wrong (which I experience is quite usual with myself and people now in the outside world). In my early life, my autism did mean I didn't really speak to people, largely as a result of following what I was told by my teachers people did and telling the truth only to find, when I did so, someone got upset and then I realised that people actually didn't like that and doing what I was told to do was the wrong thing to do. I then did not know what to do or say and largely stayed silent for 15 years in case I upset someone, unfortunately compounded by my being told that I lacked confidence. I did have the constant splurge of lots of talk after my voice broke (at the start of my adulthood, rather late) almost as if some over-correction of what I gone before. I think my struggles in my childhood made me overcome them. To be fair, I am going to cut the rest now because this isn't a thread about my life story so be aware you've not got the full picture!

Saying I need to get out of the house and, more specially, talk to people is looking at it from a non-autistic perspective (which I assume you are). Talking to people does not do for me what it does for the vast majority of people. Sometimes talking to people is really exhausting - I don't fit it, I don't know what to say. I never really go along with conversation anyway but I do get along with people and [deleted life story - be aware therefore you are getting misleading impression that I need to get out of house etc.]. I certainly don't need to get out of the house at the moment given that this is probably the worst thing to do in the ongoing virus situation, especially as we are now going more and more into Covid again with a virus wave underway, although even when the virus is coming back down later people then wrongly think they can let up and behave as if before the wave started, when in fact this is wrong because (aha - I always have a reason why and don't do things for no reason) the virus levels are still way higher than when the wave started (or before then) so the risk is more.

When the risk is less, I am more lenient. Most people seem to go in a bizarre way and drop their precautions when the risk is more, probably on this pandemic influenced by politicians - equating removal of official lockdowns and what the media constantly told them were "restrictions" with "Covid is over" or the end of the pandemic when it means neither of these things but instead means the Government doesn't care anymore and has lost the will to manage the pandemic, instead has put that responsibility onto everyone and it is clear most people's management of the pandemic is to be as if it is pre-pandemic all back. It is clear to me how and why this happens, very long explanation again suffice to say actually it's too complicated for me to explain likely because I have the complex truth and reality and see exactly why people are as they are and what has clearly influenced them. In short, very simple messaging and not hard to see how people could - and it seems have - been influenced by it, especially as it offered them what they so wanted anyway (previous normal life back). It is very simple message - unfortunately people are not aware of the science and why what they are told won't work.

I actually wrote three more paragraphs, which I've wiped out so, if anyone wants a longer version(!), I have saved it privately and will try to retrieve it and send in PM on request.

Paragon59 · 09/10/2022 13:37

SilverLiningPlaybook · 08/10/2022 10:11

I think for many oriole who are still hiding away, there were MH problems before Covid which have been made much worse by the negative media and scare mongering. For others, it is a convenient excuse not to socialise or do anything, because they prefer things that way. I know a couple in their thirties who won’t even allow their parents in the house. Even now.

People in lockdown are characterised as "hiding away".
From my perspective, people who are going out and about constantly are going around recklesssly as if it is normal life all back (and them wrongly believing that that is the case). Well, in a way people can behave on vast mass scale as if normal life is all back and then it becomes normal life is all back but in fact it is not as it was before - because normal life pre-pandemic, by definition did not involve constantly passing Covid around (whilst specific legal measures have gone) which is what people on mass scale have been doing for the past 8 months. If people were only doing so because they were told by law, that isn't the same thing as being responsible.

So 'hiding away' vs 'irresponsible and reckless'. Really I think both for neither group to characterise the other.

thing47 · 09/10/2022 13:46

@Paragon59 I do take your point that people have moved back to a pre-pandemic mindset fast, perhaps too fast, but you are never going to get your wish that a different approach needs to be taken because not very many people actually desire this. It just isn't what people want, so the fact that you want it is neither here nor there really. I don't mean that to sound harsh but you are wishing your life away on an eventuality which is never going to come to pass.

As regards risk, the risk of catching Covid outside just while going about your business and not in a crowded space is about on a par with being struck by lightning (I live with an epidemiologist/virologist). So OK yes, it may happen but pre-pandemic did you base your decision on whether to go out on any given day on whether you felt you were going to be struck by lightning or not? If not, then you are not accurately assessing the risk of contracting Covid in the open air.

If your fear of being out is down to your autism as you suggest in your latest post, I think we can all sympathise with that, but I'm afraid you cannot expect that rest of the world to reassess their level of risk based on your autism, that just isn't reasonable or proportionate. It's your problem to address not everyone else's.

Quartz2208 · 09/10/2022 14:54

We'll agree to disagree on whether the world has returned to normal, even though I am with the factual truth that, by definition, it has not. "Normal", to be able to return to, was the world without Covid it. You can only return to something that has existed at some previous time. If that is not the case, you're not returning to it, instead you are moving into something and then calling that "normal". But it isn't a return to normal, because the world hasn't gone back to what it was. We now have a world with Covid in it. That isn't what was normal. Nonetheless I will curtail this here because there is no arguing with people that do not see what actually is the case.

But moving into something and then calling it normal is what happens. Take the Queen dying - before that happen normal life was having a Queen, Barristers were called QC, HMRC was Her etc. Now we have something different - a King. Life stopped for a bit and then life moves on, assimilating and accepting the changes and adapting around it.

And for the most part that is what people mean - they have assimilated and accepted Covid. Seen changes (because there have been quite a few particularly with hybrid working and masks still in healthcare settings) occur and adapted around them.

The world is never what is was. 5/10/15/20 years ago so many things were different. Holding Covid's existence as being something that means the world isnt normal put its on a pedestal above all the other horrors that change the world landscape (Russia/Putin and the risk of nuclear war being one).

On another point I find your dismissal of flu and low flu levels interesting

Paragon59 · 09/10/2022 17:12

Kissingfrogs25 · 08/10/2022 18:13

To be entirely fair she was always a little afraid of hospitals, but not in an unhealthy way she had two children in one, and a few operations over the years. She doesn't love them but who does?

But the lines of people dying in ICU with hazmats around them on TV (which drs don't even wear now, and haven't for a long time) The images have burnt into her mind. She even still talks about lockdown like it is still here with things like 'people out there' and she can't believe her sister is going to a restaurant/busy shop/on holiday and saying her sister has always been the 'wild one'. As if it is really wild and risky to eat out. She speaks about it as if her sister is the biggest risk taker on earth to be exposing herself to the virus by being near actual people, although obviously she would never be unkind about her sister, I think she is afraid for her.
She won't even touch a takeaway delivery 'just in case' and I am worried even with her experience of covid being perfectly okay she will still continue as before. Sadly her outlook does seem pretty entrenched to me. I hope I am wrong.

"She was terrified by the government propaganda and visuals of people dying along gasping for breath and she’s never recovered."
That wouldn't have been government propaganda because that didn't suit the interests of the government, that situation was caused by the government itself failing to deal with the virus in the run up to Christmas. More importantly though that was in a different variant that caused those severe situations and not in Omicron. If people have got their vaccines, we are not in that situation now and I don't know if the rational evidence helps improve her and get her away from what we are not now seeing on the pandemic.

Otherwise I don't know if this helps because I tend to think rational whereas most people don't (it will be the images that have affected her - counselling maybe appropriate over that, especially as it may draw out some by now deeply-rooted thoughts and attempt to resolve them?) from the perspective of myself in the lockdown situation I am still in: doctors not wearing PPE would make it more unsafe, therefore even less likely to go out, therefore the fact doctors haven't worn them for a long time makes it even worse - though, in practice, actually I do go to medical appointments that I can't deal with over the phone, with myself having to take even more measures of my own as no-one else is protecting me anymore. If the doctors did wear correct PPE, perhaps I wouldn't have to put so much restrictions onto myself. For me the official lockdowns are not still here - the media incorrect to say that lockdown has ended because, for some people, it hasn't and it still goes on - it is only the official lockdowns that have. At the start it wasn't official lockdowns that determined it - some people, including myself, started going into lockdown even before we were first told to do so, because the risks of the virus were getting more and more. My own comfort level on that was exceeded two weeks before the first lockdown officially started in March 2020.

My lockdown has been the only one for me as there is no point at which I ever came out of it as in any back to normal, I managed one appointment at the barbers shop in that July 2020 time - ever since then the Government has failed to do anything to make society anything but too unsafe. Recently it hasn't got better on this, it has got worse and is getting worse and worse now - even though Delta was notionally more severe, the booster vaccine resolved that - immediately however Omicron completely changed the picture and ever since then too much Covid infection being around has kept me in lockdown, coupled with the vaccines being less effective against everything versus Omicron than they were on the booster against Delta.

I do think it may be something different with your mum though, as her concern is death based on her age whilst mine is with serious non-hospitalised non-death outcomes that the vaccines alone don't resolve and then with the situation worse because nearly everyone else is now out of lockdown completely and doing as if completely back to normal (something I never wanted anyway: I wanted something better instead, such as normal minus its bad aspects that didn't work for me - the good bits of normal, such as Christmas parties and everyone having fun at them, would be nice to have back - I didn't see my family at Christmas 2020 or last year and I won't be seeing them this year because it is now even worse: possibly the biggest wave we're ever having by the end of this year - I don't even think this current one is the last this year, I expect it may slow a bit still going higher, then BQ1.1 and possibly XBB variants to be caught up in it and take it even higher - like the last time we started a new wave without even finishing the previous one last spring and then ONS infections survey gave the highest amount of infection it has ever recorded since April 2020).

Given your mum's concern is death and the vaccines deal with this, she needs her booster jab now if she hasn't had it already (the autumn booster programme is on, even if there isn't really much campaign about it although I'm told people will be contacted and called when they are eligible). Rationally, after being vaccinated again, she shouldn't be as concerned as she is although I know people don't work this way. Nonetheless though it does come badly-timed as public health officials are now advising people to avoid contact with elderly people. The virus is actually a rational concern on this and, after not seeing your mum for so long, it will be disappointing, frustrating and heartbreaking officials are now in effect saying 'don't see your mum'.

Those images of lot of people dying from Covid in ICU - that's not what situation we are now in and perhaps counselling would be useful over that. The Samaritans can help too as they also deal with people who are not suicidal - indeed, she wants to avoid death.

On the 'people out there' she has probably got some similar views to me, and the way you write shows you've missed our point. To me, people going to restaurants, busy shops and on holiday - all this bustling activity and rushing about life - it is reckless and wild. All three are something I would never do in the continuing current situation.

The reason it is "As if it is really risky and wild to eat out" is because of the following thing. It is really risky and wild to eat out. That's correct - you heard me right. We (or at least I) do actually think this is the case and that's because it is. I've heard people before say things like "It's as if [A] is the case" and not getting the fact that the reason it appears as if A is the case is because A is the case. The reason it as if it is this way is because it actually is.

It is really risky and wild to eat out. It is. A restaurant - indoor environment, lots of people, close together, no masks on because that's impossible given they are eating out, it is a really risky and wild environment. It is probably the absolute last thing I would ever do and especially when infections are now high and now even more with them now rising rapidly again. I mean, at a push, even then with precautions having to be put in place, I could manage a one-off meeting although the precautions are now more and more the more the virus is going up and very soon I will call off any such thing until it gets down later but, in any case, really, why? Why create the risk?, I could manage a one-off outdoors brief meeting but really don't want to be doing it and is not essential anyway for me, but a restaurant - it is an absolute no-no.

I realise people are in a totally different world on this, because they were going out in July 2020 onwards and being encouraged by the Government to do so under "Eat Out to Help Out", whilst I was refusing ever to get involved in any such risk and staying in lockdown on some pedantic basis that we didn't have any effective test and trace system ever and therefore it was not safe. So I never got caught up in the incentivised promotion and was never going to do something like that and Eat Out to Help Out was something that saw an increase in virus cases. For many people that did it though, you are not realising that people in lockdown may not be in this place. For someone in the pandemic still in lockdown, they may never have gone to restaurants in it and what you are taking for granted in thinking it isn't risky and wild isn't the case. And her sister is one of the biggest risk-takers by being next to actual people - I mean why?!? It is just even more risk. Someone like the sister, sounds like going around everywhere, loads of restaurants and eating out, worst possible things to be doing, in contact with numerous people in numerous places, she is one of the biggest risk-takers.

And busy shops - I mean I would never. Even if it was quieter, I wouldn't go. The only time I've ever gone into a shop (after the virus became too much in early March 2020 and has never got to any stage equivalent before then ever since) is when I had to buy some petrol in order to cover my visits to medical appointments (the last time I bought petrol was in January this year and with an appointment each month, the way I am going, my one full tank is going to last around three years and therefore I am not going to need to do this for this time) and even when I went into the shop to pay for the petrol, I had spent significant time over my protection wearing, ensuring my mask fully sealed tight-fit etc. and absolutely every element to make sure virus had no chance.

The restaurants will be even more problematic now if they no longer have their "Covid safe" measures that never made any of them safe in the first place. I suspect if they have anything left, it will just be hand sanitiser - to which I would groan in frustration as the hand hygiene rhetoric again of this hopeless society that does not deal with an airborne virus - yes, washing your hands thoroughly is something people should be doing but it is the least effective measure against this virus - and I am also not too happy about hand sanitisers as the bottles themselves, that numerous people are touching, may be a route to transmission of the virus - in fact when we occasionally see the news video of those people at the races before the first lockdown, sanitising their hands, I reckon some caught the virus from the hand gel bottles - they could have washed their hands, then put the bottles back and picked up the virus from the bottles after washing their hands - so is not foolproof, the bottles themselves need to be washed in soap and water for 20 seconds in order to ensure I can then pick one up without anyone else having touched it without it being washed in between - I mean there may be some mitigation as they did have sanitiser on their hands immediately before then touching the bottle, potentially picking up the virus straight away after cleaning their hands and perhaps the sanitiser then neutralise the virus they've just got onto their hands - but I wouldn't bet on it and I don't want to be touching anything anyone else has touched without me thoroughly washing it first or else if I do touch something someone else has touched, including a bottle of hand gel, I then need to wash my hands thoroughly without touching my eyes, nose or face in between and if that involves picking up that bottle of gel...

On this, I am somewhat potentially in a bind - although this has effectively gone away for now - as my measures in washing the bottles to stop Covid actually create more risk of monkeypox. I therefore do not think I will be able to stop monkeypox getting here if that were to take off - fortunately (a) this seems to have been got under some control and not be spreading widely; and (b) I am not too concerned about monkeypox getting through because I think monkeypox is actually poses less severe risk than Covid and this was the case even when it seemed monkeypox might be expanding. Technically I should get gloves out to hold the bottles, in order to try to stop monkeypox and now would have to use bleach against that - this isn't going to be possible when my washing of items against Covid includes items that are freezer or fridge food items, which obviously cannot be washed in bleach. So I think if monkeypox spread, it would get through but I'm not concerned about it anyway as it is less risk than what is posed from Covid and Covid does appear to spread faster than monkeypox as well.

So, instead, I continue with soap, which deals with Covid but not monkeypox, prevents the virus that does pose the actual risks, or else - obviously not for fridge or freezer items - would have to put something like the hand gel bottle into quarantine for 7 days or if was tins that someone has had handled, quarantine for 28 days (thought that's not my actual system - I still have a 7 days for everything and then tins get moved to some other place to do the rest - they are in plastic bags so touching the plastic after seven days without touching the tins deals with it and I wash my hands immediately afterwards anyway just to be sure) or can remove tins before the 28 days but wash them thoroughly with the soap and water to bring them out of quarantine. I know I will look strange to people on here but this is what I think everyone should be doing (as usual no-one else is and this isn't just a pandemic thing: it is also procedures back in normal life that most other people often skip out or don't do what should be done, so it is a pre-pandemic thing as well that also continues in the pandemic, but that's my autism and I think some non-autistic people, perhaps including elderly people who may tend to be more careful over the Covid virus than people in general, are simply paying more attention to what should be doing and are doing it because of the risks Covid poses to them or has posed to them.

It isn't the autistic thing of always doing something, including often when no-one else ever does it which is basically throughout my life including driving at the speed limit including on the slip-road approaching the 30 mph sign which I had a colleague claim that no-one ever does slow for that and actually be at 30 at the moment passing the sign and could not believe that I actually do do it - she couldn't believe this because I am in fact the person that does and I do know that I am nearly always the only person to be doing what everyone should, so actually do slow in advance of 30 whilst being fully aware of people behind me because I know actually complying with the speed limit law is such unexpected behaviour and people risk running into the back of me so obviously very careful slowing down and aware of who is behind. I know - no-one does. I do everything correct and it hugely frustrates everyone else. Most people break the law. I actually have to pull in to the left-lane and let people pass me, absolutely everyone else determined to pass me and break the speeding law (I know, very boring and pedantic pesky little rule - but that's the autistic thing and not these non-autistic people being cautious when washing and quarantining items against Covid).

The takeaway deliveries I did mention earlier some of what your mum thinks there doesn't have any basis - the virus does not live on food. I am 'just in case' on other things though, and it is an approach that has served me well in this pandemic - if our officials and Government had had this approach it would have been dealt with correctly - part of the problem, repeated several times, is there waiting for evidence first. It is called precautionary public health and it is an approach this country has jettisoned. As a result, we'd had way more virus here and still have all this virus here and have a high Covid death rate (that's death rate, not number of deaths - mortality rate here is significantly higher than it 'should' be as it is not this high in other countries and the reason is they deal with the virus). Earlier in the pandemic, we've seen New Zealand act quickly over a single case that could be Delta and within 24 hours was shown to be Delta - I suspect our public health official response to the same thing here would be "no evidence this is Delta, no evidence this is Delta", waiting for evidence first, waiting for that test to come back, and by then, within a day, the virus has already spread even more and now bigger problem, lockdown then needs extended more, whilst New Zealand jumped on it without firm evidence but there was enough reason to think it very likely was Delta, and indeed so it turned out to be.

Us - we are hopeless. I have been substituting my own stricter procedures than this hopeless official guidance of our country throughout the pandemic ever since I consider they put me at risk at the start by having me going around as if normal but just washing my hands asking if I had symptoms and failing to deal with the fact that the virus can transmit asymptomatically. I heard what they said and it seemed a strange thing to tell me at the start as I thought the virus might be able to transmit like this and therefore asking about symptoms always seemed completely irrelevant to me but 'the experts know best don't they?' and therefore I followed what they advised, even though I had my doubts over it all along. Afterwards, when it became clear that the virus could indeed transmit without symptoms the very way I had thought it might, I consider that our officials put me at risk and, after they did it again over masks, only to reverse what they said later on, another example of waiting for evidence first and not acting just in case, I consider twice putting me at risk, I have ignored them ever since because it is clear that, in fact, I know more than our officials do or else more than what they tell us and I have since been repeatedly right time and time and time again on what this virus might be like that the scientists, different groups of them at different times, then later said they did "expect" and came as a "surprise" to them (their words) that I both expected and was not surprised by and was surprised that they didn't expect what seemed clearly possible to me as this virus always seems to take unlikely route with these people whose expectations are wholly unrealistic and experts seem blinded by their own knowlege of pre-existing viruses and expecting this one to behave the same way when it repeatedly shows us it does not, whilst I have no pre-existing knowledge and therefore appear not to be encumbered in this way. That's what it has now seemed for quite some time.

But, anyway, this "just in case" approach of your mother's does have some basis to it, although she is not actually doing it in the right areas and the risks of the takeaway are not what she thinks. I wouldn't have a takeaway delivery, at least not one that was specifically just the takeaway, but for the reason that it would probably arrive out of the blue (not completely obviously, but could be any time of the day) and catch me off-guard with all my measures needing to be done first before I can meet the delivery. My concern is more over meeting the delivery person rather than over the takeaway - I would take a takeaway but would either have to wash the container and any film lid thoroughly first or else dispose of the film lid and possibly the container if the food could be put straight onto some plate without container touching the plate, or else wash my hands thoroughly after touching anything and it is dealing with that which needs to be done as I am shutting off every realistic possible avenue for Covid, I am not doing hopeless mitigation of the type this country in general does, if it ever does anything at all. She's not justified about the food itself, which is perfectly safe, although I would tend to avoid raw meat in terms of Covid, cooked takeaways though, or ones I cook later, they are perfectly fine, my concern would be meeting the delivery person, especially if they are now unmasked, and their own airborne transmission to me is more risk than the takeaway itself.

That is fine once I've had the delivery and then just needs my own procedures afterwards to deal with the surface transmission which isn't a major issue anyway and not much evidence but just in case justified over the container and lid etc., not the food itself which may be cooked inside the container, my concern would be over a ad-hoc delivery just for a takeaway due to the serious risk (in a society that permits the amount of Covid ours does) of the delivery person passing Covid to me by their breathing and then their talking as well. That's the issue and a single delivery for that thing alone would put more pressure onto me by having too many deliveries, so I would tend to put takeaway stuff into a full grocery delivery and then just deal with that in the usual way, with masking by myself depending on the level of risk (in other words wind in my direction, I am a lot more concerned, even if not, then mask anyway but not mask on top of mask and then extra - well-fitting FFP2 mask at the minimum for every delivery, although I use FFP3 as I am not nearly satisfied with supposed 95% effective but prefer supposed 99% instead) and then the washing of the fridge and freezer items that cannot be quarantined and everything else has to go into quarantine (there are no exceptions) basically just because it is impossible literally to wash everything.

If I want something prematurely out of the quarantine, which I try to avoid as much as possible by careful planning that autistic people like to do, then it has to be washed properly (and also perhaps mask when washing some items nowadays as the washing might put the virus into the air and then actually increase the risk of transmission and then I have my use of HEPA filters etc. - you may think I am strange but look - the scientist here, albeit they did have actual person with Covid but this is all the procedures they go to
twitter.com/DGBassani/status/1579111528653258752
which I can't even do all that lot as I lack the resources to be able to do it, but I do all my infection prevention measures, including I wouldn't even have had that person around with their ineffective failure to wear mask properly in the first place, although I have had situations in this house where someone has been potentially exposed and then having to keep people apart and masking for hours on end - very very difficult to do and would like to avoid doing this again by the other person not exposing themselves at the start - it was horrid, that two week period afterwards, just in case they'd caught Covid, from a minor momentary lapse that I spotted, caused me a huge sigh of frustration and then both of us had to do all that lot, for two weeks).

I hope much of the above helps regarding where some people in lockdown may be coming from. Regarding the impact on you of not seeing your mum, I know I must pitch it higher than anything I feel because people generally do experience much much worse than me from things such as this - although my position may be thought to be worse as my mum died of terminal illness well over a decade ago now so that I can't see my mum regardless of what I do. So there are people actually worse off and what makes me feel bad is not my mother not being here which should be bad, whom I loved and was a really good person to me, but instead the fact that I don't seem to take it as harshly as people unable to see their family that are still physically on the planet

In effect, though, not seeing someone for so long does feel like the same as if they aren't and I do feel for you and people in similar situation because you have it much harder than I do and the only thing I can say is try to cut yourself some slack and we can all tear ourselves up sometimes, whilst I'm now actually failing to do my own advice and making myself upset over your situation - shall we all go and cry in the corner, then pull ourselves together (easier said than done I know) and then take it easy on ourselves, I'd advise we all go out and let our hair down if it wasn't the pandemic, but then we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place if that was the case and instead some group hug may be the best thing to do (people can exclude me out of it if they want, as I am heartless) as well as trying to get your mum her autumn vaccine and possibly counselling for the images that have clearly affected her as far as you've established.

Finally, for everyone here, how I am about not seeing people is not reflective of who I am - I makes me appear heartless and anti-social - refusing to meet anyone, not having Christmas parties etc.: the way I deal with this is I suppose it would be described as resignation as to what is the case - that that was then in normal life when I had Christmas parties, and this is now, the pandemic.

For people who say that's gone and say endemic - even afterwards and even if endemic, which I think is not going to happen the way society is going at present, I would still not be having parties until we actually ended the endemic phase and got to a safe situation with the virus in what for me is currently the outside society, unfortunately my own hope to actual pre-pandemic at present seems to be to have absolute calamity and devastation before we get there, not endemic, but a really bad pandemic wave, because I don't have any hope of society doing anything right on the virus to make it safe situation unless it has far worse in the meantime.

Unfortunately it's not bad enough for people to be doing the right thing. It isn't what I want, unfortunately people won't do what I want in the first place in order to be the direct route to making it better, instead they think they know better and persist in the wrong way that worsens the situation as we have seen, or how I have seen as that is actually there, just that other people don't see it. It is actually extended pandemic precisely because it is being handled badly at every stage, exactly the way I have been saying elsewhere for nearly 3 years and absolutely no surprise at all that the situation on the virus is what it now is and not really surprised that the vast majority of people are as if pre-pandemic now and telling me what they are actually; I don't actually have to be in lockdown in the sense that I could go around society but would have to take such onerous measures of my own whilst doing so, given the more dangerous situation that others' pre-pandemic life is creating, that it is in practice impossible for me as protecting myself that way is exhausting so it is just easier to stay here in lockdown and only doing truly essential things in the outside world (and, with me being autistic, truly essential things truly are essential things and I don't make exemptions or say oh not to worry just this once because it does matter and it does make a difference as that one occasion of lowering my guard that I am pathologically incapable of doing will be the one time the virus gets through).

I know of people that have shielded for just two years ("just" two years he says) and then thrown it all away by thinking they could stop, have then caught the virus and died, so I am certainly not going to make that mistake even if death isn't my major concern (I was never going to make the mistake in first place, which is when others that are wrong leads to tragedy) although it is also the case the way I am approaching it is very unusual because there are people who are clinically vulnerable that have had to shield now for nearly three years and are unable to end it because, as I say, it goes on and, as well as people out of lockdown that have lost families/friends, both to the virus and to lockdown, that have it harder than me, also the people clinically vulnerable shielding for three years that also have it harder than me and are not being given any end to it either.

So both groups seem stuck in their situations because as a collective society we are not learning to live with the virus and are not responding to the pandemic correctly, this is the never-ending tunnel I saw at the start when there became a choice of two tunnels to go down; I saw the other one, with the light at the end of it as the route out of the pandemic and saw us go down this wrong one, the one that leads round and round and round with end only provided if we get off it at some stage and go down the tunnel I wanted in the first place, whilst everyone else saw light at the end of this circling tunnel that rejoins itself, I saw a lesser shade of darkness instead, although I am not even sure it is as less dark as I thought as, predictably, what some scientists have hoped this virus isn't has repeatedly turned out to be the case because this virus is how I think it is from the start, a completely mismanaged emergency and then crisis and one that has left people seriously affected in a negative way the way it has and is still doing.

Quartz2208 · 09/10/2022 19:18

I just dont see how you can think your approach is rational.

I can see how wearing a mask, avoiding too many crowds and potentially testing is a rational response to this. I can (particularly as this variant isnt that pleasant) see how avoiding it as much as you can is rational. And that being frustrated at the Government is as well completely rational.

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