Mum still in lockdown !!

[Kissingfrogs25]

I am getting so worried about my mum. She is in no way vulnerable, in good health and 72 years old, she lives with my dad, for context she smokes, but is a healthy weight no issues.

Mum has been in lockdown since early march 20 and has not been anywhere inside or outside since this date, she says she is too terrified she will die of covid. She has had all vaccines, its the only time she has been inside a building. She cuts her own hair, hasn't been to the dentist, doctor (will speak on phone if needed) in all that time.

She won't even eat a takeaway in case its contaminated

What on earth do I do? I managed to get her to call the dr, who put her on antidepressants and other medication, but this hasn't changed anything.

I have been meeting up with mum outside, but even then she looks nervous. My dad is not allowed to go anywhere either.

It is now getting colder, I didnt see her for eight months last winter because it was too cold to sit out. She won't even see her friends, the few she has left have to sit on a bench in the park.

Anyone else in this position? What can I do? The years are going by and I feel like I have lost my mum 😥

I have a blood cancer that makes me cev and like you say, I've had 5 vaccinations but no antibodies at all for covid. Since shielding finished, I do go out and about but keep away from places where there are large numbers of people and wear a mask when I go to the supermarket.
I have 6 grandchildren though and after shielding for so long I refuse to live the rest of my life without them in my life. It's a risk I'm prepared to take.

Not anything to worry about as not bad enough yet.

@Paragon59 as an old-timer on mn, let me be first to give you a

Many of us have explained the logic behind the decisions that people have made - the problem is @Paragon59 is that the only decision you consider to be rational is your approach

Apologies - I didn't see your question as I am not everywhere at once.
Answer is no, not as far as I am aware although I am aware as of last week that I have a 50% increased risk of long Covid due to a long-term condition I have and, as this is one of my main concerns, therefore even more reason to me to be as I am. I was already not going to risk myself possibly underestimating my risk - only to find that, yet again, I am justified in what I've done as now find I am indeed at even more risk than what I thought. But I'm not worried about that since it just adds to what I was already going beyond just in case I might be at more risk due to not being in best of health, even though people in their 30s that are completely healthy have significant risk of getting long Covid if they get the virus, of which a significant risk exists whilst this society does nothing to get infection levels down. I am at more risk than I had evidence for so was justified to add as if this was the case in case it turned out later to be, and indeed now find it has.

Asking me for a yes or no answer was bound to be more complicated than that because just being clinically extremely vulnerable or not doesn't mean I am not vulnerable given the fact research has now found people such as myself have an increased risk of long Covid from a condition I have that isn't one that makes me clinically extremely vulnerable, and long Covid being one of the major risks that concerns me the most.

I actually wrote another essay in response originally and then omitted it all in order to deal with the question - however this does set out in more detail my rationale behind why I am in lockdown so actually relates to and addresses the point of this thread, so is here and if people don't want to read it they can skip it:

Everyone is at some risk and completely healthy, or seemingly healthy, people die even though there is much less risk of doing so and die more, at lower risk for healthy people, if they are unvaccinated. I have done what I could to reduce this risk by getting all vaccines, but currently as advised by scientists at much more risk as now well beyond my last booster whilst I await one on Monday (and even then won't take immediate effect right on the moment of being jabbed), even afterwards whilst risk is reduced, it doesn't necessarily deal with the risks from infection, including those from infection that seems mild in its symptoms, so more is necessary, which, for me, is lockdown as just easier and avoids taking risks all of which are unnecessary for myself to be doing, which is why I am here, the risks having been increased by the rest of society continuing Covid at high levels and causing yet another wave.
I don't know if getting back to the OP, mum could be asked what is the cause of her still being in lockdown and wondering whether the level of infections now prevalent in our society is part of this, also if we haven't got any immunity from infection due to not taking the unacceptable risk of infecting ourselves then unintended consequence of this is we may be at more risk, although immunity isn't durable like they hoped and bet the farm on, which is exactly what I imagined would fail there so yet again my approach is right and should have aimed for elimination of this virus as it isn't one that will otherwise go away and will simply continue to cause continued problems and risks of doing so whilst we keep putting our vaccines behind by continuing to further the spread of the virus. It is the people in lockdown that are slowing that - if they came out, it would be even worse.
At least I am not responsible for being a vector to someone else, who may be more vulnerable than me and might be many people further on in the chain that I would be part of. Staying in lockdown makes it extremely unlikely it is going to transmit through me onto someone else and then on and on and so on, although is not a reason I am here, just the risks were never reduced to any level at which I
felt I could ever drop any of what I was doing and has simply continued and worsened ever since. I seem to have got left behind at some point in April, or maybe March/February of this year, and just left in lockdown ever since but all I know is that I never came out because the risk was still too much whilst infections remained high and has been so ever since Omicron arrived end of last year, indeed it was high even in Delta before then as we simply added to the previous variant and then never got that down and then from the relatively high Delta wave (that now looks very small) we simply added yet more: there was never any point at which the virus came down thereafter to be at any lower level, it has been constantly high in Omicron with our official bodies in denial at the lowest points of this still high.
I simply seem to have got left behind whilst lots of other people at some point to me getting back to back to normal, perhaps more cautiously at first then some stampede but didn't happen all at once was gradual so there was no point at which it actually clearly happened, all I know is I am still here as infection rates still high and all the other factors over time etc. with myself constantly assessing changing levels of my risk, now vaccine waning, so the risk goes up and even more I won't be leaving lockdown yet, and then before I knew it people claiming pandemic in effect ended when I never knew any such thing and seeming to try to want me to come out of lockdown and put me at risk through this falsehood information that if not intended to convince me seems to have the effect of doing so on others, although most people it seems haven't actually believed it or maybe they got a belated wake-up (a shock to them in July) when the media told them there is another wave on after it was already ongoing and more people infected and put at risk and then the media tells them the virus is going up, when people such as me knew months in advance that this was obvious as it was available in other data, and of course cost of living since that diverts from/adds onto it but more people then perhaps having thought pandemic was over then saw the wave and in August then think pandemic not over after all although it does seem to have an effect now in people not getting their boosters and this 'vaccine fatigue': www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/21/covid-is-over-attitude-may-threaten-autumn-booster-uptake-england-scientists
I'm not irrational, I don't just say things for no reason and don't behave as I do for no reason either, although people generally on a rational level seem strange to me not least in their inconsistency, acknowledging Covid is here and yet apparently behaving as if it doesn't, but then people generally are inconsistent and contradictory, myself sometimes but much less so, and I can only think that it is some emotional need that many people have to be doing what was their normal life prior to the pandemic, something I don't have need for and remain here as the virus changed the entire thing for me completely and maybe some people who aren't autistic who are in lockdown still perhaps don't have as strong emotional need to go around as if normal life (which it isn't because the virus is here) or maybe some of them are in need of medical help or maybe they are just being rational and cautious and acting according to Covid being here giving too much risk, whilst many others have been convinced that it isn't here to the extent of thinking it is now not much risk or even no risk.
They have been caught by the easy message that plays on an emotive level, that the success of the vaccine programme* enabled people to get back to normal, when this enabled no such thing at all, and that most people would have a mild infection, when it looks like this was part-truth now given that it doesn't seem to be a mild infection but a series of repeatedly mild infections and never-ending until the point where maybe the fourth infection proves not to be mild and causes something else, with potential falsehood as those original "mild" infections might not actually be mild but could be causing something else that doesn't present in any symptoms and weakening people in general and making them silently more vulnerable and that they could treat this like flu when it is no such thing. I was never caught by this part-truth at best "Omicron milder" narrative, that put us in effect back to before Delta which was still severe and only seems lessened by vaccines not anything intrinsic in Omicron and now numerous additional consequences come from mild infections sometimes (or maybe all the time I don't know) so doesn't seem mild anymore. The way to avoid these extra risk, or potential, is to not be infected by the virus and the best defence against this is for me to stay in lockdown which is completely possible for me to do and not inevitable at all, one expert said only if you lived like a hermit might you not get infected and seemed to suggest this was unrealistic but I don't see why not, for me at least on a personal level and proves completely possible to live as if this way.
I also heard Jason Leitch earlier in the pandemic, when relaxing the original restrictions on business, that said in pure public health terms they would be advising people to stay in lockdown indefinitely but this wasn't possible and in practice a trade-off had to be made. I don't see how it wasn't, at least not for me, because for me it proved perfectly possible to do so, as I am still doing it, and I have no truck with false trade-offs as the virus recognises no such thing and neither do I therefore as what seems the way to deal with this virus, by behaving like it does as the way to defeat it, which other people are unable to do and have shown that they perhaps therefore haven't defeated it to date, instead just creating yet more of it yet again. And Jason Leitch said he was being careful as well but seemed to me not nearly to be enough careful when he caught the virus himself although I don't rule out he may have been unlucky to do so although to me when people are catching the virus usually it means they aren't being careful - shouldn't have been at the place or done whatever he was doing when he caught it is my 2/3rds view whilst 1/3rds of me acknowledge he may have been unlucky and not at any fault of his own. It is just what I tend to think; I am not apportioning any blame as he might be in the 1/3rd area. To me, my 2/3rds view is quite simple and I don't see what other people find so complicated about it, although the nuance then added by the 1/3rd. I am perhaps like this: sometimes simple solutions that aren't realistic, although not actually simple as the complexity of it recognised by me in my nuance.
To me, stay at home is the best defence against the virus: not catching it provides me 100% protection against all outcomes from infection, which the vaccines do not give so are less protection than this against hospitalisation, death, and any outcomes from "mild" infection. However, it wasn't stay at home from the media that keeps me here: I started my lockdown, which has never ended since, two weeks before the official telling us to do so through the media, so was simple common sense as the risk of the virus was increasing and more and more risk arising every week back then, which I see many members of the public other than me also saw and started sensibly cutting back contacts and staying at home even before the official telling us to do so. I had to deal with someone with me continuing to go to the pub even after Boris Johnson advised us not to do so in March 2020, although to be fair they were at less risk then as they were then almost the only person going to the pub that they were, after engaging in the most risky things possible in terms of the virus in the supermarkets up to lockdown (touching self-service, never washing their hands etc.) and they do have a diagnosed mental illness that caused them, not possible to protect other people all the time and I do have to deal with more than you might think.
Whilst I would not throw everything into masks, the FFP3 supposedly provide 99% protection against catching the virus, so is more than the protection the vaccines provide so that the vaccines aren't the best defence? Although I don't necessary go by those figures for masks and vaccines are essential as one armour to reduce the risk in the case of last gasp chance I catch the virus and then hope they protect as they should, as it seemed even at 95% protection, 1 in 20 people then still weren't protected and 1 in 20 is quite a risk still to me.
When booster vs Delta got it to 99%, a 1% risk (1 in 100) was minimal and would have enabled me to take that small risk; sadly Omicron immediately had arrived and the whole thing was straight away put down to much lower and multiplying the risk numerous times over, so I couldn't come out of lockdown when the risk had multiplied multiple times over, and then wasn't concerned about death too much anyway but the unresolved bad effects possible from extremely mild illness never hospitalised, or what may seem to be this, and the risk of such effects extremely significant and are not remote, and only one of those risks is increased for people in my age range, then slightly less by me being male but then 50% increased risk on my long-term pre-existing condition, which is how I know what these things can be like and never would risk it on such a substantial risk as it is, and then further risks in which I may be as much at risk as anyone else and still substantial and not seen until months after infection.
All part of my calculation why I am still in lockdown, and whilst other people may make different choices and think they are at whatever risk they think, the problem is the impact of their choices in helping continue to transmit the virus, with themselves either prepared to take the risk or in fact taking more risk than they thought sometimes and the way in which that then impacts on people such as myself having to remain in lockdown due to the continued high risk created by others making different choices and doing so on such a scale. Maybe people in lockdown are making risk assessments that they are at high risk and this is rational in its own way as, after all, the virus is here to such an extent and other people have removed measures to stop it (whether legal or personal) so simply giving the virus the edge and there has been no time at which my low level of infection trigger has yet been reached so I remain here until it is, logically as nothing has changed, the risk is still there to beyond my comfort level, especially when Omicron is more transmissible and now more transmissible on top, and I am not caving in until it does so as people, disappointingly to everyone I suspect, have not done enough to make it acceptable level, some seem determined to have the virus at these persistent high levels forever as endemic although maybe do not realise what they are hoping for there, which is a bad thing, endemic at high stable levels rather than low, and if necessary won't be leaving lockdown until this is reached and, if the answer is never, then I will never leave, so that was it, that was normal life and now it is something different.
If people are concerned enough about people in lockdowns they will do something to get infection levels down so that the risk then is much reduced and give people such as myself minimal risk of catching it like we seem to have with flu, so we can leave lockdown, but we are nowhere near that yet with Covid. Anyway, it is not like flu and I didn't have to be worried about flu in normal life (indeed I have had flu myself before in my life) - however flu does not have the long-term conditions of this Covid virus risked to the level they are and this virus cannot be treated like flu to me as it isn't flu - it is the entire flawed use of the flu pandemic model that has yet to see us exit this pandemic and is part of why this country has been so woeful on the virus and why its death rate was significant higher earlier in the pandemic than many others and probably still is that now. All part of why I stay here because of this dangerous UK, it is not just the death rate that isn't my personal concern for myself, instead every aspect of its Covid response puts us at more risk and seem determined to infect me as if I was wishing to infect someone, I would do it this way. On all but one occasion in the pandemic to date, the worst possible response has been chosen in England from those offered by the scientists, and on the one occasion it wasn't our Government picked the next to worse choice and regrettably it is this that has caused my current situation and forced me to have to take personal responsibility of my own to protect myself from the increased risk and continued dangerous situation that the country outside of my home now represents to me, whilst I am still on Galveston USA flu pandemic quarantine against the rest of the world and not about to give up on that as the mistake they made was to lift it before it was over.
As if Covid is ever going to be over, given that people completely failed to do anything early on to make this the case worldwide, when New Zealand and other places have proven it to be possible, but at least needs to be got down to low levels and we haven't seen any such thing yet so not even going to leave unless I absolutely have to and even then with high precautions given the real and high risk of infection by there being so much Covid around and especially when other people have ceased to be bothered and made it even worse. They keep claiming we are coming out of Covid though, as it seems to me they are the delusional ones in a belief that it ever will be over sometime this way. We are not coming out of it anytime soon and still less ever came out of it as it is still in fact here and now simply getting worse and worse again and it seems other people need to have a confrontation with the facts and reality on this whilst they keep claiming us to be coming out of it which we are not. Forever Covid, but so ridiculous that it is for all the wrong reasons producing of mirth from time to time in myself and perhaps helps me cope that way with it all!
It is not funny though as it means more people dead and ending up disabled as more infections around means more of both and basically increases risks for everyone so I am staying in lockdown. Now is not the time, as they keep saying in order to try to avoid doing anything about anything and instead leaving everyone else and me to have to deal with this situation.
which is not actually successful anymore but ceased to be so around July of last year when it was overtaken by other countries and then stalled, whilst this was only ever the adult* vaccination programme and our child vaccination programme was never a success, to the extent that people then seem discouraged to use it, made more difficult and then suggested why bother let's get rid of it - small wonder given the messages in the media that gave the impression not much benefit to children

Apologies, my last post came out with bold incorrectly in some places so shouldn't have appeared like that. I now seem to have no way to delete it and post an amended copy, I will not do so since it is already taking up space.

I haven't seen anyone explain the logic behind their decisions yet and no-one has actually given me any rational decision making approach behind it - if I have missed it and failed to spot where they have, could someone actually quote me exactly and precisely where it is? TIA.

(I mean I am at a loss, because beyond that you've now said additionally that "many" people have done this, when I can't identify a single person that has done so - the only person that has explained any such thing as far as I can see is myself. So where is even one other person, let alone "many"?) Are you referring to part of this thread before I posted the very first time I did? If so, please let me know as I am only looking at what I've seen since I came here.
I think reason people haven't explained their logic is because there isn't any. Unless they have explained and despite reading each post since my very first one, I can't see anywhere where they have and I am usually very attentive.
Is the "logic" the emotion? The emotional need to socialise and be with other people perhaps? In way case not rational but emotional instead. I mean I can see why people might do that, but I don't really know if it is logical or rational because it doesn't seem to take any account of the actual risks of the virus or change depending on whether it is going up or down and just seems to me to be people completely as if it is normal life all back and regardless of how the pandemic is going on and removing masks from themselves at times when the virus is going up, which makes no sense to me. It doesn't reflect the fact the virus is more transmissible, instead people stop wearing masks when that is the case which seems completely illogical to me. Other people - just totally wrong way up. Or else me the only person wrong and everyone else right.

I can see why people might think me wearing goggles (actually not the case most times but does vary depending on risk, i.e. indoors) might appear to be irrational. I would explain this except that it is off-topic except to briefly say it is all based on evidence, the increased risk this society has created by being hopeless on everything about Covid and none of it now at all based on scientific evidence (vaccines yes but reliance on them as almost only measure isn't science) part of this is also is one of the reasons I am still in lockdown (on topic!), myself taking extra steps to have to fend against the increased risk its failures on almost everything create and more recent scientific research confirms that my approach which was previously 'just in case it could' is actually the correct thing to be doing.

Answered above as I am now working backwards in the thread to try to find where anyone ever has set out any rational decision making, I can understand all the reasons people give about families and it feeling like a bereavement "losing" someone into lockdown etc. - unfortunately all of this is emotional and related to the way people who aren't autistic seem to be and none of it rational decision making in accordance with scientific evidence on the virus, or its levels, or maybe I am looking at it in the 'wrong' way (or me just being rational and maybe some of the people in lockdown are doing the same) whilst you're looking at how you feel, from not being able to see someone close to you before, this is all emotional feeling though and not rational objective removed completely from any emotion and what is generally important to the vast majority of people based on this.

Apologies for my long posts, actually caused by my autism and my need to go into detail - I literally can't write any other way than explain it all. I have actually deleted a very long post without posting it as decided not worth bothering with and trying to shorten posts now on in as don't want to derail thread and want it back on the original topic although myself now explaining this and.... arghhh!!

The answer to the clinically vulnerable was no, except I've now found that I have 50% increased risk of long Covid compared to what I originally thought and was being cautious in case it later turned out I had more risk than I thought, so was correct as usual (and annoyingly so no doubt) to be thinking previously the way I was (there was a reason why I thought I might be even if I didn't have evidence at the start). So, as long Covid is one of my main concerns, not resolved by the vaccines nearly well enough and therefore another reason why I am still in lockdown - other people may have similar risks or think the risk of long Covid is what it is and therefore be remaining in lockdown rationally even if you may not be able to see this because, to you, "losing" your family member that seems like a bereavement is the matter in your mind, to them it may be the virus risks or it may be they do have a problem. Talk to them, if you can, on the phone (I hope they have one) and try to find out what the evidence is on which they are remaining there.

And I don't think try to force them out, as I think they are right and I'd be like them on the evidence if I were them. Even if children, given that Omicron is not less severe for them (than the previous versions of the virus were for them) and I even have one scientist saying that Omicron is more severe for them, although I am not sure that that is right - I'll go with not less severe. We've been told part-story, or maybe some people have heard the full truth and made a decision based on that. That said, children are still at low risk at least of the direct serious disease and death outcomes although long Covid seems to be a significant risk to everyone as far as I can see (actually the oldest people are probably least at risk of that but then they have greater risk of direct severe disease or death and that itself does increase risks, I'd have to go and check to be absolutely correct on this, not completely relevant to the point about why people still in lockdown therefore no need for me to do so).

It does seem some people at least on here not getting full info. as could not understand why people in their 30s might still be in lockdown - working age people from 30 upwards, especially women, are at more risk of this than other groups. So actually seems rational to me on the science as they are at more risk of this and I think the risk is quite more than a lot of people think (but then I would say that as I am in lockdown and that is part of the reason why I am, multiple numerous reasons all of them together so even more justified from my point of view).

I think you should say this to them.

Sometimes people need stuff like this laid out because they are hiding it from themselves.

It sounds harsh, but I would say, "you realize you could die at any time, you almost certainly will die of something within the next 10 years, and you will do it without ever seeing me, the grandchildren, your friends, again.

Is that what you want?"

There are three things wrong in the last part of what you've said, my reply to which would be largely off-topic to this thread therefore I am not going to try to address it.

Briefly:
It's not my choice;
I'm not suffering (I have no emotional feeling about it that is any suffering);
Part of the problem is that people generally aren't interested (bothered) what consequences they may be causing to others, although they usually are interested if people are close to them.

It is really inappropriate of you to be clogging up this thread with your walls and walls of text.

So what you are saying @Paragon59 is that you think it people really knew the risks attached to COVID they would make the same decision as you?

Because that simply isnt the case. Most of us have looked at the risks and accepted that they are worth taking for being able to have a normal life.

I actually think your posts may be useful because they really do show how yourself and others (such as the OPs Mum) have made a decision to lockdown based on their assessment of risk

I lost a conspiracy theorist “friend” who was on the other end of the spectrum. Told me I’d be dead by last Christmas because everyone who’d HAD a vaccine would die because I don’t know… fucking bunnies from Mars?

I’ll be honest, I haven’t read those long texts, I’ve got scrollers thumb.

I lost a conspiracy theorist “friend” who was on the other end of the spectrum. Told me I’d be dead by last Christmas because everyone who’d HAD a vaccine would die because I don’t know… fucking bunnies from Mars?

Oh yeah those ones are just as bad.

If they were physical letters they'd be written in green ink. Imagine being so self-absorbed that you think people have any interest in reading that lot - not just once but every response.

My brother is a CT. He was saying the same thing. I have my doubts about a lot of things to do with the virus, but the stuff he was saying and still does is terrifying.

I am CEV. I have been living like normal for ages.
It was scary at first, but I had to face the reality that nothing could change for years. They have vaccines and treatments, which is what we had been waiting for.
People are still dying of covid and getting long covid. But I simply could not carry on being isolated while everyone else went back to normal.

I think those criticising those people in shops wearing masks are being unfair though. People are still getting cancer treatment, etc. When I was the main support for a friend getting cancer treatment I wore masks in shops to minimise her risks. But it was time limited.

I know two people still living in covid lockdown. One is very elderly and it may simply be he is no longer up to going out as he used to, it can be hard to tell as people do get to the stage where going out and about becomes more effort than it is worth. The other is in his fifties, he is not CEV and just acts like everyone else is a fool to be living normally. He is also autistic interestingly. I wonder if part of the issue is the government have never said clearly you can go back to normal now.

Maybe they are making huge sacrifices that others aren't prepared to make? (In missing every school concert and open evening.) And if people generally were prepared to do so, maybe this pandemic would actually be over quicker

Isn’t Covid over yet?

I am unvaccinated (allergic to all inoculations) I have worked throughout.

I can’t even get my head round staying in and not going anywhere.
Dh who is CEV only isolated for the first lockdown. He has mentally never recovered from that. He refused to isolate again as it made him feel unduly anxious and he could tell his grip on reality was slipping.

It isn't hiding and it is not necessarily fear or maybe it is that this virus is still a threat and therefore it is justified to be in fear

Sure sounds like you are hiding. The world has returned to “normal”
The streets are busy, restaurants and bars are open
We have all been out and about.

Can I ask what complicit system

What do you think is happening?

How can you afford to not go out.
How can you stand to sit in your self inflicted prison when the world has moved on.

I have learnt a lot about relationships during this period. Even the closest relationships require contact, connection, time and even though I text or call my mother most/every day, the skin to skin hugs and seeing her face, smelling her perfume, looking into her eyes. Watching her smile and laugh. Feeling her little bony shoulders and listening to her. I miss it more than I can even put into words.
No sharing happy summer days, picnics, birthday lunches and days by the sea. It’s all completely lost. It actually breaks my heart. I can’t buy or plead back this lost time with her. It has gone forever. Anyone that is reading please think about what is being lost.

I wonder if part of the issue is the government have never said clearly you can go back to normal now

A friend and I were discussing this last year and wondering how the government was going to go about unwinding the state of fear they'd created and mitigate the effects of what can only be described as psychological terrorising. And as we can see from this thread, they had no plan and no idea - just 'meh, get back to your pre-covid lives.' And that doesn't work for a lot of people.

Indeed it doesn't. But it's clear no fucks were ever given about that. This sort of thing can't be switched off as easily as it was switched on. The consequences of the deliberate attempts to induce fear in the population are going to be with us for a while.

I wonder if it especially does not work for autistic people like the man in his fifties I know.

Interesting you say 'switched on and switched off,' @PerfectlyPreservedQuagaarWarrior because that's exactly what it was. We were being programmed to be terrified and with some people it's gone too far and can't be reversed or switched off.

@Paragon59 I am not unsympathetic to you, I wear as mask when I go out too as I’m clinically vulnerable and it’s your right to do so, I also think people underestimate the risks of long covid which is life changing, but I am saying this with kindness, please step away now from this thread I’m sure it is not doing yourself any good and also please consider that OP has come on here heartbroken and wanting support and you are clogging this thread with huge long answers that are really derailing this.