Camilla Parker Bowles is now the Queen.

[PlanetNormal]

That’s Queen consort, of course, but that idea is going to take a lot of getting used to.

I wonder was that before or after she realised her husband didn’t give a toss about her.

No dignity like Camilla, being involved with a married man for so long. Being involved with a married man has always been frown upon in MN, just not if you’re the queen ha ha

So you judge Diana for having affairs as well yes? It's funny when people seem to think he was absolutely awful for cheating, but she also cheated. If you're gonna judge him for infidelity, gotta do the same to her.

The main issue he couldn’t marry Camilla initially was that she was a commoner. Diana’s family were aristocratic.

The main issue with him marrying Camilla originally was that Camilla didn’t want to marry him.

She was besotted by Andrew Parker Bowles. Plus he could offer the trappings of a good life without the magnifying glass of royalty.

They’d never have been allowed because she’d had relationships before Charles, but I don’t think she wanted it anyway.

"Sources also suggest Camilla did not want to marry Charles but instead wanted to marry Andrew Parker Bowles, having had an on-and-off relationship with Parker Bowles since the late 1960s"

I was under the impression Camilla was in love with Andrew Parker Bowles and married him in1973. Charles was more smitten with her initially than she with him.

Yes this is what I understood too and I’m not sure why anyone claims ‘he wasn’t allowed to marry her’. Seems like the offer was never accepted anyway!

Yes exactly!

I wonder if it’s because Diana has died and she’s essentially martyrised, but the notion that she was some innocent victim, a lamb led to the slaughter, absolutely baffles me. The fact she had the nerve to say ‘there were three of us in this marriage’ - ha, and the rest! She had, IIRC, at least 4 affairs, some went on for several years and some were with married men.

I also don’t buy the notion that she was hoodwinked into marrying a man she was deeply in love with and used as a brood mare. Aside from the fact she only met Charles a few times before they wed, Diana was from aristocracy and knew exactly how these things worked. She went into what was essentially an arranged marriage, willingly, with (it seemed) huge benefits to both sides. The whole toxic marriage was a set up in a very draconian way, just like royal marriages had been centuries before, when affairs were the norm too. Except the problem here was: he was deeply in love with someone else and she was completely unhinged.

It was a stark lesson in what happens in this day and age when you marry someone you don’t love

The fact she had the nerve to say ‘there were three of us in this marriage’ - ha, and the rest!

Not forgetting the other of Charles' main mistress.

The idea that Camilla was the one presence just isn't right. It was firstly Diana's piece of manipulation, and then later swopped round to bolster the togetherness of C&C.

I think it's because The Crown doesn't seem to mention the other that no-one talks about it (she is also now deceased, so no prospect of new tabloid fodder either)

I also don’t buy the notion that she was hoodwinked into marrying a man she was deeply in love with and used as a brood mare. Aside from the fact she only met Charles a few times before they wed, Diana was from aristocracy and knew exactly how these things worked.

Remember as well that Charles had had a relationship with one of Diana's sisters, Lady Sarah. Sarah was sensible enough to end it because she wasn't in love with him.

She was a damaged, vulnerable and not very bright teenager when she got engaged to Charles who was in his 30s.
Can you imagine public reaction today if William or Harry had done something similar?

Yes her behaviour later on was not great.

But it doesn't change the fact that she was used and manipulated at a very young age, and that Charles and Camilla did not treat her well.

Hopefully Charles is a more confident person now who would not behave as he did then. But some people are rewriting history. Whether you liked Diana or not, or however she behaved later, she was exploited and let down when she was a gullible teenager by several people, including members of her own family,who should have known better.

There is an element of martyr with Diana. I think a lot of people forget that the press was starting to turn on Diana just before her death. So a good bulk of the public would have too.

Look at the grief the York princesses get/got for their multiple holidays… That would have happened with Diana. She’d have got the headlines of “oh look, another holiday” especially if she hadn’t married Dodi (which I don’t think she would have) then it would have ended up with stories every time she was around any guy “She’s out with another man” and as soon as she hit 40 there would have been an air of “at her age” to it.

Like when many people die all the flaws were forgotten. And no more mistakes get made when just magnified the situation more.

She was a vulnerable teenager who was massively let down by her family.
I also think Charles was massively let down by his as well.
they were essentially set up to fail by people older, wiser and more experienced than them.

I think a lot of people forget that the press was starting to turn on Diana just before her death

They had already turned! Diana's relationship with Dodi was extremely unpopular and the press made the most of pictures of her in her bikini on his yacht. The papers were full of vitriolic comments about Diana 'cavorting' with Dodi, and 'exposing' William and Harry to it all. Then when she died and was practically canonised overnight, the journalists had to do a complete volte-face - however, the news came too late for the following day's papers and there were a lot of embarrassed journalists.

And it could have been queen Amanda! He proposed to Amanda Knatchbul before Diana

I wonder if it’s because Diana has died and she’s essentially martyrised, but the notion that she was some innocent victim, a lamb led to the slaughter, absolutely baffles me. The fact she had the nerve to say ‘there were three of us in this marriage’ - ha, and the rest! She had, IIRC, at least 4 affairs, some went on for several years and some were with married men.

I think it is. Also because Diana used the media to portray herself as the victim, leaving her indiscretions and bad behaviour out.

I disagree - she was used, but she also used back. She grew up in these circles and was not a dim woman - she knew what she was being used for and what she’d get in return

Not forgetting the other of Charles' main mistress.

Ooo, interesting. Who was/were the other mistress/mistresses? (Sorry, I'm unclear how many you're talking about.) Spill the goss.

Diana was a very troubled woman with mental health issues that got thrown in the dragons den at a very young age and used as a scapegoat by the adults around. She was very vulnerable and not mentally equipped for that dragons den called “royal life”. She had no family support to turn to. Living under the loupe of the press didn’t help one bit. She was treated with a total lack of empathy by Charles and camilla. Diana was the royal scapegoat.

I always thought she was bonkers but the more we learn about the appalling gaslighting she was subjected to the more I feel very sorry for her.

She was, I think she had figured a lot out by the time she died which is sad because she was definitely on her way to being a different person.

I doubt, at 19, that she fully understood the consequences. When it dawned on her, she wanted to pull out but received no support there either.

I wasn't a massive Diana fan and couldn't understand the adulation or the elevating to 'most beautiful woman in the world'. It's also possible that, even if she hadn't married Charles she would have led an unhappy and self destructive life.

But it doesn't change the fact that she was used and exploited by older and wiser people when she was just a teenager, and that Charles and Camilla were very much part of that.

Obviously a lot of time has passed and bridges have been built, but as I said above some people seem to be rewriting history. It was all very sad and regrettable but it did happen.

it’s not like Charles was your average 30 year old though, was it? As the heir to the throne he wasn’t raised to consider his life his own, and was under an incredible amount of public and familial pressure himself. He was essentially strong armed into the marriage. It was a shit situation for them both.

Diana was an aristocrat, she would have been well aware that marriage in those circles is not the same as marriage for the general public. It was expected he would make a good match. It was also expected that he would have a mistress/mistresses, same as his forebears and peers (as well as his father). He acted completely normally considering the context, hence the incredulity at Diana having a problem with it. Hell, it’s not like she had a problem with it when she was the other woman. Diana did the same thing that Camilla did, and was in fact the other woman more times than Camilla was.

If being the other woman makes someone the devil incarnate (incidentally I don’t think it does, but that’s beside the point), then that applies to Diana as well. If they had remained married and she hadn’t died, she would be exactly what some are decrying: an adulterous Queen consort.

No he wasn't which is why Camilla also bears huge responsibility for the way they treated Diana. She may have redeemed herself in many ways but I can understand why some people are reluctant to see her become Queen.

Kanga.

I think Diana got a shitty deal. But it was a difficult situation for Charles.
Charles was getting on and he was being pushed to find a wife. The Queen Mother was friends with Diana's grandmother so they pushed Diana forward. She and Charles only had about 12 dates in person, the rest was by phone. Philip said he had to make up his mind or let her go so she wasn't compromised. He couldn't find anyone else who would marry him that he liked. So he asked her. I think he genuinely did care for her and she loved him. I'm sure it was never his intention to hurt her and that he thought he could make it work.
But the heart wants what the heart wants. Would any of us deny ourselves the love of our lives if it meant hurting our spouse. Pretty sure the resounding advice on MN would be "leave your husband" (and maybe “stay with your wife, you bastard“ 😁)

I grew up with much older siblings and family members.
I wasn't sheltered in life and had strange figures around me.
Looking back I was still incredibly naive compared to many friends who had a very normal life.