Big Dog - Going, going, not quite gone. Thread 14.

[Notonthestairs]

Will it be Continuity Truss or "Socialist" Sunak in charge?

They have all been on the magic mushrooms, haven't they?

As "kindly yuppies" we are hamstrung by not being able to fully imagine the depravity. I'm not sure that's too strong a word.

no, I think you’ve summed it up succinctly.

Thats always been an issue though hasn’t it? Morality is seen as a weakness that’s exploited by those who aren’t bound by the same conventions (flashback to BJ’s school report). And it is because it’s the same weakness that prevents knee jerk reactions and total intolerance of the same behaviours because of a belief of redemption and revelation.

Basically we need someone with the same moral fibre who sees something to gain personally from a well functioning society rather than looking to commercial and organisations for their personal gains. They’ve existed before but I’m not sure where they are now. I’ve grown to quite like Kier but I don’t think he’s a match for ruthlessness.

I wouldn't be so harsh on Sir Keir.
People are starting to realise who will be the next government, people like to vote for the winners. As more and more people realise who the winners are, I expect this trend will accelerate.

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/who-do-people-think-will-win-the-next-election

She also said they should stop focussing on diversity and culture issues and focus more on visiting victims of crime.

Agree with the visiting people but they need to increase the force to do it.

Her reasoning? People want to trust the police again after very high profile cases portraying a negative view of the police.

The irony being these high profile cases were born from the diversity and culture issues that exist.

I wasn’t trying to be harsh @jgw1, I think he’s a good man, capable and intelligent. But I think his morals are a weakness in the face of those without.

if he was in a room with one of the current Tory front bench, both given a gun and the one to shoot first lived I suspect he’d hesitate longer and get shot.

I think your right on that Cornettoninja

I think Starmer does have a ruthless streak otherwise he wouldn't have gotten where he is now, he just isn't nasty.

Ruthless but fair is an uneven match for ruthlessness where fairness/unfairness isn’t even a consideration.

Kier plays by the rules, I like the rules but we seem to be in a world where these rules mean fuck all.

Starmer has been boxed in by Covid and to a lesser extent Ukraine. Conservative meltdown has dominated the media (that will continue- they are not a steady ship).

You don't get to be DPP by being a mild man. Frankly you don't get to be Leader of the Opposition by being a pushover.

I hope he's being advised to tear through Conservative policy right now. They've shown yet again who they are.

The shame is with mainstream media in the Conservatives pockets Labour won't get a fair hearing. No wonder Blair courted Murdoch.

I think yesterday changed that. History might see it as a pivot in British politics. Judging by the reactions on social media and the callers to Any Answers today, the blatant steal from the poor to give to the rich attitude has cut through and it’s very hard to find anyone who isn’t appalled by it - including those who it benefits. I know I tend to be overly optimistic but I think the tide might be turning.

I also don't think we yet quite realise how much air Johnson sucked out of politics. He dominated discussions for all the wrong reasons. You can't argue policy with someone who doesn't give a shit about anything.

Truss & Kwarteng are up for the argument on direction of this country - and that's where it gets interesting for Labour. T&K (Treng? Trart?) do have principles - crap divisive ERG/IEA principles - to push against.

Anyone who watched Labour front benchers performance in the Commons yesterday can't be in any doubt that they are a government in waiting.

Indeed. Reeves was on fire.

Agree especially to top part.

That was me saying agree especially to top part. But Mumsnet haven't yet sorted out it's glitches

I feel this too. It just seems so blatant, no trying to hide it or apologise for it... almost gloating. I watched part of Karteng's address in HoC... Truss was just smirking, it made me so angry I had to turn it off.

GBNews is so desperate to divert away from this mini-Budget they have sent reporters to Calais to film 'thousands' caping and supposedly waiting to cross in small boats. They know how bad it is if that's all they can talk about. Absolute desperation.

Even the ghastly Julia Hartley-Brewer thinks it is a truly awful mini Budget. I have never agreed with her on anything.

I'll leave this post with words from Hilary Mantel who has died, author and twice Booker prize winner..

"We see the ugly face of contemporary Britain in the people on the beaches abusing exhausted refugees even as they scramble to the shore. It makes one ashamed. And ashamed, of course to be living in the nation that elected this government..."

I hope so @Blossomtoes, I’m frustrated by the time it’s taking tbh. It’s hard watching so much damage being done with only delayed recourse as an option.

Some light relief

BREAKING: Leaked WhatsApps from Liz Truss's brainstorming and ideas group.
twitter.com/secrettory12/status/1573390350336806913?t=gK76U0VQF8bvzolF4cM38w&s=19

Well you can see on MN attempts to divert attention from the details of the Budget to broader and often nonsensical diversions.

Im sure there will be more of that about in the newspapers tomorrow - they can throw together some drivel about Megan & Harry, Charles and his pens etc etc.

Norwich aren't playing today so they've probably got time on their hands.

You would hope so. The 45 rate cut was so blatant, I think it may be what does for them. Had they raised the higher rate threshold they would have been in a much better position politically whilst still being able to wang on about tax cutting. It's almost like a suicide mission. I think Truss is power hungry and Kwarteng is basically sociopathic in the Priti Patel, JRM mould.

Talking of Meghan, did you see the clip of Sir Keir arriving at the Labour party conference holding hands with his wife. Scandalous.

Starmer will be able to show more of his talents now he has someone to actually debate in PMQs. I doubt truss will use bulky boy tactics like Johnson did.

She'll keep to her line and argue it until the cows come home - but it's that shit and transparently shit there's plenty to show them up about.

Starmer is a fabulous and talented lawyer. This is where these skills will be most useful.

I completely agree. Now he’s no longer having to deal with all that bluster he’s going to find life a lot easier.

Can only the PM call an early GE ? I read that after the 2019 one, the tories changed the rules so that the HoC could no longer call a GE if 2/3rds of MP's voted no confidence, or under other special circumstances. "The dissolution and calling of Parliament act 2022 ." I think this is what happened.

I am not sure if I can bear the destruction havoc they will have caused if she waits until the last minute to call it.