Big Dog - Going, going, not quite gone. Thread 14.

[Notonthestairs]

Will it be Continuity Truss or "Socialist" Sunak in charge?

Ah yes the heinous crime of eating cake whilst at work.

No. I was actually referring to serious crime such as stabbings and muggings. <Yes if you're a mugger it is still mugging even if it only takes 5mins to mug someone before you ask>.

@Blossomtoes
I'm just young enough to come after the 'boomers' so presumably not not too far behind you in age I think? PpI agree that society is becoming increasingly ageist. Older people used to be valued bcos of their age (and presumed life experience and wisdom' now it seems that older people are often considered as a (disgusting) problem and the root of all our current ills- climate change etc

But, young people's financial welfare has undoubtedly been eroded hugely in this millennium. Eg, during the covid restrictions they were very badly affected despite being at much less risk from covid than older people. Students got no discount on their greatly reduced education. Thinking about my DS he came home and continued to pay rent for his student flat, which he probably could have given up but getting another flat in London is easier said than done. Therefore his older landlord wasn't financially impacted. His work opportunities (entertainment) were greatly curtailed by the restrictions with no compensation for work he couldn't prove he was missing out on. All to protect older people.

Stamp duty was suspended to encourage the property market, which generally does benefit older people at colossal expense to younger people. University fees, cuts to benefits for under 25s. Schools are less well funded. Sure start scrapped. Youth clubs, workers etc scrapped. Young people blamed and criticised for spreading covid.

It's not fair that the shareholders in energy companies, through no merit on their part should be allowed to get fat off the backs of the rest of the population who need to have energy. It's not like we can forage for wood and burn it to keep warm.

The government could have imposed lower tariffs for the first lot of energy consumed, depending on the number of people in the household and higher tariffs for more energy consumption - with the effect of making higher consumption a luxury (though I'll and disabled people who need electrical medical equipment, warmer homes etc should not have to pay more for higher use). This would be fairer and have the effect of reducing demand - better for the environment and reducing demand therefore slightly lowering the global cost.

The impression I get is that conservative governments absolutely do prioritise the interest of older people, who comprise the majority of conservative votes.

I wish young people would vote more and take a greater interest in politics (not that I did when I was young 😳)

Ahhhh. Cross posted.

Surely @JaniieJones if eating a piece of cake really isn't anything to worry about, why did Boris make it a crime?

Short analysis of the rumoured Truss energy policy by Martin Lewis.

"ENERGY: Is the Liz Truss administration going to freeze prices at the current level? If so what does it mean for those on the price cap and on fixes, and is it any good.

Here's my rough provisional analysis of what may be coming..."

twitter.com/martinslewis/status/1567129686546710528?s=21&t=gedWY1Vl51C1GH8-mVV_cQ

Thank you @Notonthestairs

"Hearing that Jacob Rees Mogg is expected to take on the role of business secretary and the junior minister's responsibilities of energy and climate change later today

Word is at least two Tories have turned down the jr role which would have worked closely with him"

twitter.com/natashac/status/1567111390418051074?s=21&t=gedWY1Vl51C1GH8-mVV_cQ

Business AND energy & climate. That is going to be interesting. ("Interesting" is a useful euphemism).

@mibbelucieachwell sorry if I got a bit snarky there. I just get sick of the ageism on this site.

I agree that younger people have had and continue to have a crap ride, but many baby boomers and Gen Xers were and are very politically active and were instrumental in making changes that younger people benefit from today. Yes, our generation also fucked some things up, but younger people need to do what we did and "be the change they want to see in the world".

Absolutely. I couldn’t agree more. As a second wave feminist who fought hard for maternity rights and widely available childcare - neither of which benefitted me personally - I get really pissed off with being labelled a selfish, greedy parasite on MN.

Anyway, I’ll step off my soapbox now and return to criticising this abhorrent government which still hasn’t succeeded in buying my vote.

I'm just trying to read around the rumoured energy policy. I appreciate I should wait until the policy announcement but its been drifting for so bloody long and I want to feel a bit of certainty. Nothing is making me feel any better.

This is one take -

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-madness-of-truss-s-energy-price-cap

Spending £130 billion on driving a particularly sharp recession is not traditionally viewed as good economic policy, but Truss has managed to go further: prices may also be capped for businesses, which aren’t currently covered by the energy price cap. This means that both sides of the market – households and businesses – can rack up massive energy bills, safe in the knowledge that the Treasury is covering the tab. This will drive up wholesale prices and the cost of the policy (an additional £40 billion to cover businesses) without actually letting the market do the work of matching demand to supply. And when demand is greater than supply, you get blackouts.

Just read the whole article @Notonthestairs. That’s really bloody scary.

I thought his speech was very good, sincere, bit of humour. He's just so likeable isnt he. We can only hope he'll be advising behind the scenes

So likeable his party ousted him

I'm sorry janiile but I'm past the point I can take you seriously anymore. It's so clear you think you posts are winding people up but they are as hilariously sarcastic as jags. She's just better at subtle sarcasm.

Re the Spectator article. I'd quibble with the remarks about older voters being happy to pass off the payments to their younger generations. That is not reflected within my family.

But aside from that yes there is the strong risk that if we (I include myself here) don't adjust our energy use as demand spirals then blackouts become ever more likely.

We just don't know how long prices will continue to rise and how much we will be left with paying back.

I've had my local council in touch today about installing solar panels. I need to review what they are offering.

This means that both sides of the market – households and businesses – can rack up massive energy bills, safe in the knowledge that the Treasury is covering the tab

Is that true though? If prices are frozen at their current rate they are still much higher than they were last winter. Take into account the higher cost of food as well and people will still need to be careful and may not be able to use their heating as much as they did last winter, let alone use it more?

God, am I defending Truss here? Aaagh!

I'm in credit too.

My energy supplier want to up my DD by 80% of my DD not my actual use from my calculations because they aren't taking into account the £400 payment.

As my ds is disabled I'm getting the £150 too which I'll pay directly on via my app which should mean they don't increase it. But I'm worried they still will.

I think it will.

My ds has just turned 18. All his age group are very interested in politics from the ones I've talked to and none of them support the conservatives. They've all watched Johnson partying whilst they studied at home for exams that will forge their whole futures.

I think the danger’s more from businesses than individuals. A lot of businesses would go bust if their energy bills went up by the amounts projected. It’s a trade off I guess - subsidise energy costs or see unemployment go through the roof with the subsequent cost of benefits. It’s lose/lose. What a time to become PM.

Nor mine.

My mum was late 60's when she passed earlier this year. She was worried for our financial futures with what she could see happening.

She was a teacher for over 40 years so saw all that too.

Plenty of older people who can absorb costs because of how different life was (own homes with no mortgage) worry about those who can't.

Those who belong and vote in the Tory party are not representative of Britain. It was 150k people out of 68 million.

Wow. The spectator has just described my thoughts on the government's response to the current situation 🤯

It seems to me that the current and past government is so busy trying to covering up its corruption, deal with its scandals, the Brexit fallout and cling on to power that it doesn't have the time/energy/capacity to properly deal with problems and then it suddenly whacks out an expensive short term fix that exacerbates the longer term problems. This reminds me a bit of the delayed response to covid followed by one of the longer,harsher and ultimately more economically damaging lockdowns. The Furlough scheme could have been dealt with bettter too. I think the pandemic planning they ignored had some contingency for economic support too.

Maybe this is normal for governments that hold extremist beliefs?

@Blossomtoes I applaud you for your work on women's rights. It's definitely not appreciated by lots of younger women.

Went to have my eyebrows done today
The owner said she is concerned by the bills, but she is with Scottish power and they are being fair. She was remarkably calm , but she's been trading for years and is always busy
She told me that the hairdresser across the road is closing as the owner cannot carry on , not making a profit and decided to shut down. She had to do a 65 hour week just to pay overheads and energy bills and she couldn't do it anymore.
It's so sad that many places will go under.

I'm not quite clear how the cap would work for business/industry.

I think I've read somewhere that they will review every 3 months which gives them a bit of room for manoeuvre and adds a frisson of uncertainty.

Although I am not a Conservative voter I don't actually want the plan to fail! If they've got this right I will be VERY happy to acknowledge that. Frankly there are more than enough other areas where I disagree with Tory policies.

I agree that businesses need clarity
I didn't want any of this to fail. It's all too important.
As the leadership battle took seven long weeks , it seems waiting for this speech from LT is also taking forever because of the plane trip which was totally unnecessary!
Prince Charles should have gone to buck house and done the business there. About time he did something regal !
I'm actually quite cross that we have all this faff just so she could shake the Queens hand :(

I haven't seen anywhere (but I've not kept up to date with this thread as away) that Liz Truss is first woman pm to use her maiden name.

Am I right?

Well, Truss was supposed to give her speech at 1600. Yet another PM so full of their own importance that they can't even be bothered to turn up on time.

It appears that a huge number of her party aren't bright enough to work an umbrella or again, so full of themselves that they expect someone to do it for them.

So bloody rude.

It’s hysterical watching them all shelter from the deluge.