DH using toilet for DT’s when out

[Silverbirch123]

I have NC for this but I’m a regular poster

We have 3 year old twin girls. If we’re out (or he takes them out on his own) for the day and my DH has to take one (or both) of our girls to the toilet he’s started using the ladies (not always just sometimes)

The reason he says for this is that the mens toilets are usually really grotty. He went somewhere a couple of weeks ago where there was only 1 cubicle, and several men using the urinals. He pushed the door open and there was a guy sitting on the toilet who hadn’t locked the door 🤮

He immediately came out and used the ladies. No one has ever said anything to him but I’ve suggested that in those circumstances he uses the disabled, but that’s not always possible if you need a special key to open them.

i darent post this in AIBU but given the circumstances above would you DH’s do the same? I’m keen for my DH not to cause offence by using the ladies but I’m also keen for my DD’s not being subjected to filthy toilets and grown men not shutting the doors when they’re having a poo 💩

How are you so dense?

If the toilet is advertised as a unisex, you expect men to be in there. You can then choose to use that toilet, or go on to find a single sex toilet.

A female bathroom, I do not expect to see a man in it!

I can see why he thinks this is a solution but I don’t think it is reasonable. He can take wipes with him to make the gents’ loos less awful or plan around places where the loos aren’t grim.

Absolutely - and having a unisex toilet would mean there is NEVER any 'excuse' for a man to enter the ladies.

we're seeing lots of the 'personally I don't mind' argument which is completely irrelevant. SOME women do mind and they are women's loos. One woman can't consent for other women. Always strikes me as really odd when women bother to tell us that they personally don't mind. What is that suppose to achieve?

I would have thought that the main reason for not wanting girls in a mucky men's toilet is so that they don't get infections from sitting on a urine soaked seat

@Kpo58 Urine is sterile. Why do you think you can pick up an infection from urine?

The only infections you can pick up from toilet seats are boils and skin infections if someone has left that bacteria on the seat.

This applies to women's loos as well as men's.

If the seat is wet, you get loo paper and wipe it or if you are really fussy you can get disposable paper seat covers to put on the seat first.

I agree and have the same frustrations when people say it about disabled toilets. It’s very shortsighted to not be able to see beyond the end of your own nose for why something is a problem

Not all men and not all dads. Just the ones who feel they’re entitled to enter female only spaces because they’re too lazy to plan ahead and don’t give a flying fuck about how other women and other little girls feel about that.

Also @deedledeedledum why the need for the patronising sexism? “Petal”? Really?

Lol that you can’t see the irony here. A dad taking his kids to the loo shows they’re ‘much loved’ children. What about fathers who hate their kids and take them to the loo - are they allowed in the women’s? What a weird assumption that children are ‘much loved’ and another example of the bar for men being so low it’s in a tavern in Hades

Wipe the loo seat! Also I don’t think men are any more likely to get piss on a seat than women. And presumably pooing boys sit down?

He needs to take wipes. They're toddlers, their sex is much less important, and he's prioritising his comfort, not having to potentially clean up, over women's perfectly reasonable right to a single sex facility.

Men really need to start stepping up and not turning their toilet facilities into fetid pits. The women's isn't nicer naturally, it's because we are more considerate when we use it.

The men pick them. That’s what they achieve

Yes, and it's not about HATING men or dads, we just don't want them in our female-only spaces. I love my (male) partner and my male friends - doesn't mean they're allowed to be in women's spaces!

Your husband needs to take wipes with him and clean the men's toilets.

He does not belong in the ladies toilets.

Nobody has said anything because some women genuinely don't mind and some women do mind but don't want to take the risk of confronting a strange man in their toilets.

If a woman expressed her discomfort to your husband, would your husband then stop using the ladies toilets? Would he tell her aggressively that the men's toilets were dirty and he was right to be in the ladies loos?

Several women have stated that they aren't happy with your husband doing this, so is he now going to stop?

I think you may be missing the point. People often wilfully misinterpret the safeguarding point by taking things personally. It is a statistical fact that men perpetrate the majority of violent or sexual offences and these offenders do not extend us the courtesy of looking like monsters so we can recognise them as a danger.

Your husband using the ladies loo is normalising men in women's toilets for your daughter's. In years to come they may not recognise another man in that space as a danger to them because daddy use to take them into the women's toilets so its all fine. In the past if any of us had seen a man going into a women's toilet after a young female we would have been suspicious of their motives but now people are reluctant to question it because a desire for single sex spaces is apparently bigoted or unkind.

I think it would be better for men to campaign for family friendly toilets rather than using the ladies. Why are women's facilities always considered fair game for the convenience of others or as a refuge for vulnerable men? What about vulnerable women? Are our needs worthy of less consideration.

If a woman expressed her discomfort to your husband, would your husband then stop using the ladies toilets? Would he tell her aggressively that the men's toilets were dirty and he was right to be in the ladies loos?

Exactly this - play this situation through in your head - if one woman objects (as some have here), will he stop doing it? Or will he continue because he feels entitled to (and come home and tell you that some woman told him off for doing it)

Like plenty of things in this country, this is something that is just unfit for purpose.

If toilets are single sex, then they are single sex and your dh shouldn’t go into the ladies. The whole point with little kids is that they are allowed to go with their parent into the toilet that matches the sex of their parent. Yes, I get that the mens is beyond filthy. He should either complain to the relevant premises, take antibac wipes and disposable gloves or re-plan outings so that visiting toilets is generally not necessary. A potty in the car might work. My kids peed in a car potty long after they were toddlers. I once did it on a bank holiday when the motorway service toilet queue was out the door. I just peed in the potty in the car and we were able to get on.

Yes, even if a man announced their intentions and asked if anybody minded I would certainly want to speak up & object but the truth is I think I might freeze & not speak up. Saying no to strange men has not ended well for me in the past as is sadly the case for far too many women.

I'm saying that I categorically would not care if a man listened to me opening a sanitary towel in any circumstance. Because it just really isn't that big a deal. That is what the specific comment I was making referred to, however, your moral panic has stretched that out to the implying that I don't give a fuck about women's rights. Maybe try contextualising a bit.

And what about the women and girls who do mind?

What about the 12-year-old girl who has just started her period?

What about the woman who has recently moved from a strict Muslim country and is used to greater sex-segregation in general?

Do the feelings of these women count less than your feelings?

I’d be inclined to think not seeing as there’s a men’s toilet he can use

He’s not using the toilet; his little girls - who have every right to be there - are.

Personally I wouldn’t like it but I wouldn’t be distressed by it. But that’s irrelevant because I can see many reasons why others would have an issue with it.

young girls who are just starting their periods who are still embarsssed.

the woman who has been raped.

the woman who because of their religious beliefs can’t be near men in such a setting.

the scared woman looking for somewhere safe to hide.

the woman who just wants some privacy!

Exactly! Or children like my youngest daughter who use a cubicle on their own but don't always lock the door properly so it sometimes swings open mid-wee. She's embarrassed enough if it happens & there's females outside. She has the right to know that there will NEVER be a man there in this eventuality.

He's not using the toilet; his little girls - who have every right to be there - are.

They have every right to be in the women's but he, an adult man doesn't. There are no such restrictions on which one three year olds can use.

The little girls have every right. The fully grown male accompanying them does not. His options are:

Respect other women and girls and use the men’s

Or

Not give a shiny shit about other women and girl’s boundaries and use their facilities regardless of what they think or feel.