If you tend to vote conservative can I ask a few questions - let’s keep it light and respectful!

[Holidayhavanas]

Full disclosure I tend to vote Labour, but I’m really interested to know if you tend to vote for the tories, what is your reasoning behind. the real shortage of qualified public sector workers for example teachers, social workers, police. A health service and education system on it’s knees. Police forces like Manchester and Met in special forces. I think that it’s symptomatic of years of underfunding. I work in the public sector and feel on a daily basis that the country is absolutely screwed. I assume most tory supporters would say it’s down to austerity but I feel it’s ideological cutting back on public funding. I’mgenuinely open to hear other views as I find it so depressing and just hope that it’s something I am missing. Let’s try and keep this respectful 😊

I am seeing this more and more at the moment, people actually daring to ask if there is a better system than the NHS.

I have talked to a British friend in the Netherlands and a French friend here in the UK and they both much prefer the Dutch and French social insurance systems to our NHS.

I would love to see a cross-party working group set up to look objectively at the NHS and if/how it could be replaced so it's not just handed a few £billion and then kicked down the road yet again by whatever party is in government for short term political gain.

The problem with raising taxes to cover money spent is that those with any money who are going to be on a super higher rate of tax can afford to leave the country and do so to pay less tax to another country.

That then leaves a large bill which needs paying and then those that can’t afford to leave are left paying huge taxes

I left school in the late 70s and my first pay packet was £80 per month.

I was paying 33% tax

To invoke the Nordic countries again (and, again, this is a genuine question; I don't know the answer), do people in e.g. Denmark leave the country if faced with taxes they decide are too high? ie are the Nordic countries seeing this problem?

This
There is no alternative

I think that is why Blair did well initially as he came across as treating those that were in the lower sections of society as people who wanted to climb up the ladder and make a better life for themselves and he wanted to give them the tools to do so.But also helping those that would find it more difficult.

In the documentary Blair & Brown: the new Labour revolution, Blair said that he'd realised that what made the Tories so appealing to people was that it was considered the party of aspiration. And he wanted the labour party to be the same. I think that's a successful idea. But under Corbyn you heard labour members decrying that success, almost like it's morally wrong. My problem is I have no idea what Starmer thinks. It like he's trying so hard to be everything to everyone that actually he's being no one. Winning the next election should be a walk in the park with Tory shenanigans and chaos, and yet a victory seems far from assured to me.

I know two Danes who left Denmark and now live in lower-tax jurisdictions after they were successful as entrepreneurs. Obviously, this is such a tiny sample as to be statistically irrelevant but neither has taken their fortune back to Denmark: one lives in Cyprus and the other in Monaco, so climate could be a factor too.

Thank you; yes, I agree, maybe climate/lifestyle. Interesting though.

The question to me is whether you will have the option to vote Conservative, or for something calling itself the Conservative Party but is not conservative.

Standing for family values, sound finance, respecting the monarchy, understanding business, none of which remotely apply to the current government.

Yes I agree on education. As pp said, Blair did well to look to aspiration but everyone going to uni hasn't worked out very well either!

Ok, so 'evil' might be a step too far but there's so much antipathy to people who have wealth of any kind. You see it on mumsnet constantly. 'Tory' is an insult. If you've done well for yourself, it's always because you were privileged in some way, never any recognition of personal agency. And equally poverty is always structural and never the result of poor choices. Its fantasy land.

balalake, I think there are a lot of us One Nation Tories who hang our heads in despair over the current shower.

Badenoch mentioned something close to family values but it didn’t go down well with a few on the left here

Personally this doesn’t grab me. The monarchy is ok but having to respect it is not a selling point and Starmer’s recent article about duty to celebrate Jubilee did nothing either

It mostly centres around opportunity for me - so Blair captured that but Corbyn and now Starmer have not

The latter is too fixated on sound bite policies such as removing charity status from private which will force more into state whereas Blair said education line with penury

This is why I wanted to join the party and not just vote for whoever is running under the banner. And meet the people who are on selection committees, policy forums etc.

Decisions get made by the people who show up.

..Without penury

I've always voted Tory and the reason is completely bonkers but...
As a child, living on a rough estate with my mother who was useless, I always remember the Labour Party, knocking on the door, offering to give people a lift to the poling station and back. Telling them that it would be good for the local area.
Well it wasn't good. And they talked shit!
At least if I vote for a toff who doesn't live in the real world, I'm getting exactly what I'm voting for!

@completelyunderwhelmed I don't understand the "Brown put millions on Benefits" comment or the "Labour hate anyone who is wealthy..."

I follow politics and don't recognise either statement.

Before the last two elections, i spent quite a bit of time reading Labours manifesto and even under McDonald, i didn't see any hatred toward the rich... just that he would crack down on tax evasion and loopholes.

Even the higher rate stuff got dropped and corporation tax was to be raised by a similar amount to what Sunak has proposed.

Reeve is a multimillionaire, i doubt she hates herself!

Ok, so 'evil' might be a step too far but there's so much antipathy to people who have wealth of any kind. You see it on mumsnet constantly. 'Tory' is an insult. If you've done well for yourself, it's always because you were privileged in some way, never any recognition of personal agency. And equally poverty is always structural and never the result of poor choices. Its fantasy land

Isn't there a middle way?

Thats what missing today, it's all extremes.

I was bought up in poverty and have done well for myself (because i could get free FE and evening classes) however, i also get that some people don't have the opportunity, luck, drive or ability plus if everyone becomes a rocket scientist, who does the shite jobs?

Yes people make bad choices, even so called intelligent people but i also wouldn't judge them.

Tory is no more an insult than Cons (its just quicker than typing Conservative) however "Leftie" most definitely is & for balance, so is Scum.

I'm talking about the huge expansion of tax credits under Blair/Brown which may have appeared to redistribute wealth but, in the view of many, just maintained low pay in certain sectors.

I'm not saying the Labour Party are necessarily antagonistic towards the rich (though maybe Corbyn was), I'm saying that tends to be the attitude and perception of many Labour supporters and probably rightly so given Labour's historical basis. So, yes, I perhaps conflated popular rhetoric with manifesto which isn't necessarily accurate. Though, does anyone know what the hell Starmer wants to do?!

I vote Conservative due to lack of an alternative that fits my ethos.

I think the Labour government spent a lot of money in Blair's time, some of which was wasted. I believe paying 50% odd income/NI tax is enough to fund public services and don't want to pay any more tax (self-interest but I'm being honest). I don't think the state is particularly efficient or effective at running large businesses. I support choice, whether comprehensive, grammar or private schools.

@AndreaC74 I agree with you! There should be a middle way and that is where I sit. Unfortunately I feel like there is no nuance and some things we are not meant to discuss... even if it is the harsh reality. Perhaps mumsnet is not representative but I find the discourse so polarised.

And I will say that I think the insults have different connotations.

Tory = nasty, hate poor people, out for yourself
Leftie = too stupid to understand fiscal reality / deluded Marxist.

Perhaps mumsnet is not representative but I find the discourse so polarised.

I agree. It's also frustrating when what starts as a respectful exchange of views descend into Labour = good, Conservative = evil. Which has happened in most posts on this topic recently.

I'd never vote Labour but I understand why people might choose to. There's no need for the level of vitriol and abuse directed at Conservative voters, who are equally decent and upstanding but with a different political leaning.

The main problem is that party members hold too much sway within the parties and are not representitive of the public as a while. So you end up with extremists getting voted in for party leader who then have to try to appeal to the average voter.

@lot123 yes, you said it better. Conservative seems to be a position to be defended, whereas Labour is the default 'nice' vote. So reductive.

But why is that and how is it caused by Tory policies? As I understand it they have increased the minimum wage above inflation over their term in government. Unemployment is very low. Is it that UC hasn’t risen with inflation?

I agree- I would prefer to discuss the actual issues than insults, sound bites and exaggeration.