If you tend to vote conservative can I ask a few questions - let’s keep it light and respectful!

[Holidayhavanas]

Full disclosure I tend to vote Labour, but I’m really interested to know if you tend to vote for the tories, what is your reasoning behind. the real shortage of qualified public sector workers for example teachers, social workers, police. A health service and education system on it’s knees. Police forces like Manchester and Met in special forces. I think that it’s symptomatic of years of underfunding. I work in the public sector and feel on a daily basis that the country is absolutely screwed. I assume most tory supporters would say it’s down to austerity but I feel it’s ideological cutting back on public funding. I’mgenuinely open to hear other views as I find it so depressing and just hope that it’s something I am missing. Let’s try and keep this respectful 😊

I’m finding it really hard to get past the fact that food banks have become so prevalent in the most recent few Tory governments, would be interested to hear whether voters are ok with the approach to benefits/Universal Credit that caused this?

No. All that comes from more funding is they employ more people to train up strategists in Prince 2 etc.

the underlying lack of efficiency is due to everyone profiteering - hence the stupid rules on procurement.

my late father used to say voting was pointless. I didn't understand then but I do now. I have voted Labour and Conservative in the past. The lack of efficiency problem isn't about which party is in power. I wish I knew the answer.

In the last 40 years I've been working in the NHS I haven't noticed that either party has particularly improved the NHS in any significant way.

As someone eho has had to use the NHS more than most throughout my life, I agree* *with this.

People talk like waiting lists, cancellations, people in corridors, ambulances waiting outside/not available is a new phenomenon. I can assure you it isn't

Yet thats exactly what todays Tory party have been doing, the latest is the NHS, throwing huge amounts of money at it but with no plan to get more people in social care, solve staffing and retainment issues and fix crumbling infrastructure.
Billions in extra funding but haven't got just £90m to give all staff free parking......

Or Covid business support grants, Track n Trace, writing off fraud, billions wasted.

I ve used the NHS over many years too, mainly AE and fracture clinics mainly due to my sport and my Mum was nurse during the 80s and 90s.

Yes there has always been issues, its the scale of those issues that has changed, they are now totally different from previous years.

I believe the main reasons are Covid and Brexit, backlogs and staff leaving.

I haven't voted Tory, but some family and friends have and have given these reasons:

Positive experience of their local Tory MP's involvement in local causes

Lower-middle earners and small business owners who already feel they are struggling to keep their head above water and believe they won't be able to stay afloat with tax increases under Labour. I don't know if this is fact-based or just successful Tory propaganda. I'd love to know!

I have become a Conservative voter over time. My reasons are

1. belief in a relatively small state, that individuals take responsibility for their lives and the state offers only a basic safety net. This isn’t about penalising poverty but rather reducing reliance on welfare that traps and holds people back


2. allied to 1. is belief in relatively low taxation, where those who can do so provide for themselves, pay less tax as a result and can enjoy the fruits of their skills and effort. High tax regimes encourage the better off to avoid paying tax so we have the Govt spending expectations but not the income. Lower rates of tax still yield a greater contribution from the better off as long as they are paying it.


3. belief in and support for institutions to create stability within society and politics. The problem with the current populist political culture is that it undermines trust in institutions and makes everything more fractured and unstable, so that policy and culture are being set by whoever shouts loudest


4. belief in one nation- for me this is about moving away from identity politics whether that’s culture wars or brexit. It should also be about creating opportunity throughout the country so people can rise


5. belief in the family as the essential unit in society, with the model where children are born and raised by stable and loving parents/family acknowledged as best. This means parents putting children’s interests ahead of their own, being prepared to be in authority over children not leaving them to raise themselves or make critical decisions whilst still immature. This then comes to choices of duty over self, for example

FWIW, I was and am a passionate Remainer, I detest the angry populism of the current Conservative leadership, am deeply ashamed of the Rwanda deal and hate to see civil servants being branded as useless bureaucrats. I believe that individuals who have wealth should be philanthropic. And I find myself using the word ‘relatively’ quite a lot because our politics at their best are shading slightly left or right of centre. I’m really fearful that that Conservative party is coming to resemble the U.S. Republicans which is something altogether nastier.

As a One Nation Tory (ie, centre, that is -- a long way to the left of Jacob Grease-Smug) I vacillated over the EU referendum. I believe the public services should be far better than they are, but feel they suffer as much from years of over- and mis-management as underfunding. More money may be needed but equally, what there is needs to be spent better.

NHS procurement is beyond ridicule; one tiny example, our small business is often called in to fix hospital heating and water systems, and every hospital and trust we deal with has its own estates department drafting, inflating and gold-plating the requirements. Today's news that the medical profession are setting out guidelines for trans men giving birth made me splutter into my mug of builder's tea.

The police should worry more about solving real world crime like theft and fraud than policing Twitter feeds and "hate" crime as Stonewall has trained them to.

I won't bore on though. Every Labour government of my 45 adult years has eventually run out of tax-payer goodwill and cash to spaff. I don't like what we have, and I'm warming to the combination of Sir Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves on the grounds that the Tories need a break to buck their ideas up.

What are those changes though? I was previously on tax credits as a single mum. I wouldn’t have been eligible for UC due to savings (but starting working again anyway). As i understand it, uc is generally more generous than the previous system (although not if you have savings which is fair enough).

I'm be honest, I earn around 130k. I live in the South East so mortgage alone (on a small 3 bed semi) takes about 40% of my take home pay, add in childcare, bills and normal living and we don't have lots left at the end of the month. Of course we are comfortable but there seems to be a perception that 100k means you are rolling in it and we aren't.

I will never vote Labour, because I am their target. People on my sort of salary are expected to prop everything else up and pay for all their schemes. Not the people on mega salaries, or the tax dodging organisations, but the people who are doing OK.

To put it into context I already pay double than the the UK average wage in tax, plus NI on top of that so I feel I already pay my way. Would I pay a bit more? Grudgingly, but the levels Corbyn was proposing? No bloody way

PM Johnson passed legistlation to allow the government to strip British people of their UK citizenship if they were deemed to be entitled to citizenship elsewhere. This can be done without notice.

Jewish, BAME and NI citizens are particularly affected.😦

I've voted both and Lib Dem's in past but I lean to tory now because

1. Dh is a high earner so Labour will screw us over
2. I simply dont trust Labour to be sensible with spending
3. I dont feel Labour have a decent team behind Kier. Tho I dont mind him to much
4. I never hear what policies they have planned.
5. Women's rights being eroded.

However
Presently I'm
Fed up with tory

Because of

1. In fighting
2. No direction with climate change
3. No direction with NHS. Worst service ever is a disgrace

So tbh in the next election I really dont know what I will do.

Re parking, another thing the public sector do is build hospitals and schools without sufficient parking as a matter of policy to encourage use of public transport. Yet they seem to take no account of the actual available public transport in the area at the times people need to get to work. It’s dogmatic policy ideals over practicalities.

As they have in every major economy in the world. We think it is a unique problem to the conservative led UK, it isn't.

I'm interested in those who say that they 'have' to vote Tory because of women's rights. What is it about the Tory party that convinces you that they're in favour of anyone's rights other than theirs? The constant going on about leaving the court of human rights and coming up with our own, presumably less prescriptive bill of rights. The recent claim by Liz Truss that she would abolish the right to strike. They certainly don't seem happy about the right to seek asylum either. But they're supposedly suddenly big into rights?

The gender stuff, what people seem to be objecting to - men in women's prisons, women's changing rooms, toilets, gender ideology in schools, Stonewall in the civil service. That's all happened under the Conservatives. Why are they being presented as a solution to a problem they were in charge of? As far as I can see, the main progress being made by those concerned seems to be happening in the courts, and by private companies.

'But Labour might introduce self-id'. As far as I can see, gender recognition certificates make very little difference to what is going on, you don't need them to access the women's facilities that people are concerned about. Self-id is already in action there. The key protection there appears to be the Equalities Act, which doesn't appear to be at risk? Labour in their last manifesto committed to protecting single sex spaces which excludes those even with a GRC.

The Conservatives, as far as I can see, have had 12 years to sort this mess, and yet appear to have done very little, while whipping it up as a 'wedge issue' and a culture war talking point as if they are the only ones who can save the country from....what has happened under their rule.

So I am interested to hear from those who appear to think it is the defining issue for their vote.

Further to my last comment, I wonder if anyone can tell me whether one of the Tory voters I know would in fact be better off with Labour? I'm curious to know.

He is a self employed and in his early 50s. Lives in a nice but unremarkable house in a rural area with no bus service. He is married to a full-time health care assistant and they have grown up children who do not live at home. He says he earns around £50k/year which is taxed through the construction industry scheme (he works solely for large construction companies so no cash in hand!). The cost of running his old van and his tools etc presumably come out of this. I don't know what his wife earns but she drives an old car and they take one package holiday to a Mediterranean type resort per year. They don't go out a lot and appear to have a comfortable but unremarkable lifestyle.

A few years ago he took a loan out to pay for a knee replacement. The NHS waiting times were too long and it was impacting his earning potential. He will need the second knee doing soon. It's not yet bad enough to get an NHS referral and join a waiting list. He suspects he'll have to go private again. I have no idea what other debt or outgoings he may or may not have.

He is convinced that Labour getting in would result in him being worse off. He said he wouldn't mind 'cutting back' in order to pay extra taxes if it would mean he didn't have to take out another loan for his second knee replacement, but he doesn't believe change under Labour would happen quickly enough. His wife needs a car for her work and he needs his van, so improved public transport would not save them much if any money.

His fear seems to be that he will not be able to get his second knee replaced when he needs it and will not be able to afford to have it done privately, resulting in him being unable to work.

My feeling is that the Labour Party is surely set up to support working class families exactly like his, so they would be unlikely to bring in any policies that would negatively impact him? My suspicion is the Tory supporting media encourage the idea that upper working-class and lower middle-class families will be hit by tax increases under Labour - whereas it's mostly only the upper-middles and super-rich corporations that would pay extra.

Apologies for the long post - I am just curious to know! Also apologies for using the outdated class descriptions, I wasn't sure how to better explain it.

@Holidayhavanas

Do you think public services were better under Labour though?

No. I lost a parent and a parent-in-law due to horrendous NHS mistakes/mistreatment in the late noughties after a decade of them throwing money at the NHS. Yes, the hospitals were all shiny and new. But the service/treatment was shambolic. Not due to lack of staff, if anything, there were too many. It was just plain and sheer incompetence.

My mother died after a routine hip replacement went wrong, because the ward staff/doctors seemingly "forgot" she was diabetic and didn't monitor her blood sugar levels nor provide her with her insulin.

My father in law was admitted with a suspected blocked bowel (all the symptoms pointed at that). They did x-rays and scans and couldn't see a blockage so basically left him in the ward, feeding him and then waiting for him to throw up, which inevitably he did, for about 3 weeks, just watching him get weaker and weaker. Then he got a hospital acquired infection so had to spend a week on a drip, during which they stopped feeding him, so he just got weaker and weaker. Then they eventually decided to do an exploratory operation to see if there was a blockage, but he was too ill and weak to operate, so they feed him by a drip to build him up. After a couple of months, they finally operated, and yes, found and repaired the bowel blockage! But then he caught another infection, which finished him off as he was so weak. He was only in his 60s and had previously been in good health with no underlying health conditions. It was just weeks of supervised neglect with doctors just "observing" him that led to him becoming so weak!

So, no, throwing money at the NHS doesn't work. There are more systemic problems of waste and incompetence that aren't suddenly cured by a shiny new building with an atrium (although that looks good when a local politician opens it on TV!).

I just identify more with being slightly conservative (small c) in nature and don't really see myself as being "Labour".

I am very disillusioned with politics in general. The quality of people involved in politics is at it's lowest level in recorded history. If it wasn't for self ID I would vote for Labour, not because I think they are amazing, but because I think they would run things slightly better than the Tories. But the whole self ID thing is a mystery to me, it's very clear that Starmer doesn't believe that women can have penises, so why he feels the need to lie to keep a few hundred activists happy is beyond me, it onl and it gives me severe doubts about his ability to keep the nutters on the fringes of the Labour party at bay were they to be in government.

The whole situation is very depressing as there is no light on the horizon. It's only going to get worse, no matter who wins.

I could be persuaded either way if Labour were credible but they haven't been for years.

Over time, I have become more 'conservative' probably as I have amassed more wealth to protect....BUT I would be in favour of any party who makes the country WORK properly. For me, we should move to a more northern European system whereby most people have affordable health insurance and only the very poorest receive free healthcare. I would happily pay higher taxes for a functioning NHS as another option. All spoken from someone with the privilege with enough cash but also a genuine belief that this would be better for everyone.

I probably lean towards a smaller state and the idea that the state should keep its nose out of non-neutral issues - see the gender identity crap that has infiltrated some state departments.

I would also question that the public sector is ALL under-funded. I know MANY civil servants (related to me) who have bugger all to do at work at all day and freely admit it.

I haven't voted Conservative but wouldn't rule it out. My rationale is that many of the issues you've raised are devolved in Wales, we've had a majority labour govt for over 20 years and our public services are probably in a worse state than England's (certainly hospital waiting lists are much longer and school results lower). Plus the clusterfuck of some of the covid 19 decisions means the current labour govt have in my view lost any credibility.
So basically don't think Conservative could do any worse!

From a social perspective i hate labour's views on gender affirmation, and find it embarrassing that in 2022 they've never had a female elected party leader whereas the tories have had 2 (and fairly likely to be a third) even if I don't like said individuals.

So as someone who would usually class themselves as very Liberal/left wing I would probably be more likely to vote tory than Labour if those were my only 2 options, although realistically i doubt i would vote for either (and it wouldn't matter if I did because my area has been labour pretty much since the boundaries were drawn!)

But the point is that the current so-called conservatives don't represent conservative values or have the interest of the nation at heart.

Under Johnson they have turned into a lying, corrupt and incompetent mob who are closer to Trump or Fascist ideology than anything else.

I am not a conservative voter but there always were ministers that I felt I could trust in conservative governments but this is no longer the case.

Billions of our money have been wasted during Covid and went into the pockets of wealthy mates, Brexit was built on lies and all our services are falling apart while our government chooses to waste millions of tax-payer money on some crazed Rwanda scheme so they can please the owners of the Mail and Telegraph and a few rabid immigrant-haters.

We are really scrapping the barrel and this is not what being conservative should look like to me, or it is is I don't understand how anyone in their right mind could support it. It is simply complete chaos and mismanagement.

We need to demand better from our politicians. The country should not be ruled by people who only go into politics because they want to line their pockets and make their mates wealthy and who answer to a few media barons and shady foreign influencers rather than the British public.

Also the people blaming the Tories for much of the current state of the economy must be totally ignorant of small thing called 'macro-economics'....

Because they're into big state, high tax, they resent anyone with any wealth. They're always on the latest woke stuff, but I don't want a leader who "takes the knee" and is frightened to say what a woman is. Tories were the least lockdown-happy, Labour called to go further on restrictions. Raynor shouting "scum" in parliament.
Btw - don't rate the Tories either.

Yes food banks are common throughout Europe but at about 50% of the numbers the UK has.

But the point here is it doesn't matter, we all (mostly) live in the UK and i find the idea that working British people, folk doing a 37 or 40 week (often more) have to resort to basically begging to get food.

It should be something we are ashamed of but it appears that its a thing of pride, judging by my Tory MP FB posts.