If you tend to vote conservative can I ask a few questions - let’s keep it light and respectful!

[Holidayhavanas]

Full disclosure I tend to vote Labour, but I’m really interested to know if you tend to vote for the tories, what is your reasoning behind. the real shortage of qualified public sector workers for example teachers, social workers, police. A health service and education system on it’s knees. Police forces like Manchester and Met in special forces. I think that it’s symptomatic of years of underfunding. I work in the public sector and feel on a daily basis that the country is absolutely screwed. I assume most tory supporters would say it’s down to austerity but I feel it’s ideological cutting back on public funding. I’mgenuinely open to hear other views as I find it so depressing and just hope that it’s something I am missing. Let’s try and keep this respectful 😊

What happened after 2010?

Good point about degrees, and yes I agree with it,if we can move to a system with good training and apprenticeships than that might be fairer. I also recognise the amount of public money wasted in the 00s but is that still not happening now with the tories? I’m now working in a tory safe local authority and there is still so much wastage. What about all the contracts going to Tory mates and contacts? Was interested to read one poster say Tony Blair “fucked” the NHS - how so?

Also because Tony Blair fucked the NHS

There are few who hate the man more than I do, but could you expand on this?

I feel public service efficiency is more about the competence of specific people running those services. e.g. leadership of individual trusts/schools.

Vaccine rollout was good not because Tory political philosophy is somehow better suited to vaccines but because the team they put in charge of it was competent with relevant skills.

while I think more money would be good that is not the only problem many government departments are rife with waste and inefficiencies, procurement is hard as no one anywhere will give either central or local government a good price, teachers are having to buy from certain suppliers for paper and art supplies when they could be bought cheaper in "the works " or Tesco at full retail price, when I was in dentistry the hospital were paying more than £1.50 more than us per box of nitrile gloves and we were buying in much smaller quantities the MOD is even worse these are a few examples
in pandemic I volunteered to go back to help with vaccines but it was too difficult with too many courses even though I have been giving injections in far more vulnerable parts of the body than upper arm all my working life, but apparently army could be trained in 2 days
this all applies regardless of left or right wing, we need some honesty that there is only a limited amount of money and it needs to be spent where it will do most good long term, but elections are max 5 years apart so no one does long term which is why pensions and care for the elderly is such a mess
we need to stop silly rules that prevent ordinary tasks like changing light bulbs only being done by janitors or engineers, works department instead of any member of staff
to be honest the Tories are just a little bit less spendthrift but it is like choosing between a rock and a hard place
we need to get basics right, minimum wage at a reasonable standard, affordable housing ( ie build 2 bed terraces and 3 bed semis we don't need more executive homes) decent education, healthcare and policing crimes not ideas thoughts and opinions

Also another thing, slashing funding into deprived areas for youth workers and grass roots support from the voluntary sector etc, we’ve now seen a subsequent rise of Knife crime and gang related crime. That’s never going to be properly addressed without proper funding.

Floating voter - vote conservative when I think they're best of a bad bunch.

The PFI schemes to build hospitals under the Blair government were a financial disaster. I was a trainee lawyer working on some of the contracts and I could see that it didn’t make sense!

The point about public sector having the right people / good leaders to ensure efficiencies etc, I 100% agree with this but you won’t attract them into the sector if it’s poorly paid. You also need to invest in training to develop the next generation of leaders. Surely that would come from more funding?

I’ve learnt so much on this thread already. Seems it’s quite clear we need to start a revolution and get some decent politicians 😉

it’s hard to say if the public sector were any better during Labour government because of the policies of that government though. The recent Tory government have been left a financial crisis to deal with then just as we were recovering came Covid and a European war. The Labour Party blair government on the other hand inherited a strong economy in boom times. It’s not comparing like with like.

I’ve heard it said that taxes are the highest they’ve ever been by both Labour and conservative. Most people (including Labour voters) don’t want to pay more tax themselves (someone else “richer” should usually be paying more) or cut anything they get. But ultimately if we want expensive policies, we need to pay for them.

We can’t just trot out trite nonsense about Amazon- we have to consider what we would be prepared to pay for or do without especially in a time of low growth. Yet generally as a whole we are not prepared to do this.

I would like either party to be honest about the choices we face. Also having worked in both public and private sector there is definitely poor management and waste in the public sector. Yet successive governments have done nothing about it.

In the last 40 years I've been working in the NHS I haven't noticed that either party has particularly improved the NHS in any significant way.
Covid has wrecked it completely, I'd say half the staff in our dept have left to do office jobs or private work because they are exhausted.
I would have but I've only got as short time to work on my pension plan so I've decided to stay.
If you think Labour will improve anything without getting a massive windfall from heaven then you are sadly mistaken.
I will not however be voting for conservative next time as the latest lets shuffle prime ministers, lying and backstabbing and failing to be a cohesive government during the worst crises ever have royally pissed me off.

To be honest I think there are actually a lot of people in the public sector who are overpaid, especially once you take into account their pensions. Phillip Hammond commissioned a study and I believe that the conclusion was a general public sector premium of about 10%.

of course lots of public sector workers are underpaid too but on average they are not.

also we need to change the culture of management in the public sector. take away the endless pointless faff and make people more accountable. Also people are rarely fired even if they are awful unlike the private sector. Redundancy rounds result in unfilled posts getting cut rather than the most efficient cuts being made.

I think it’s far too simple to say more money will improve services. Often it doesn’t.

Yes agreed - a very expensive financial disaster. Housing policy under Labour was also poor (and remains so under tories).

Sadly, I don't think we'll ever get the SNP out. I was a supporter of independence in 2014 however to have another referendum in ridiculous. The majority of the electorate said no, so we need to just suck it up.

Womens rights are another very important topic to me, which the SNP don't seem to support.

I tend to vote conservative but I think together with Blair they have f**ked up education.
It starts in primary school and the breakneck speed in which children are expected to be able to read and write. If you child can’t do these things by a certain age they get left behind and never stand a chance at catching up.

The pursuit of University degrees and minimum qualifications for jobs that never needed them in the past has led to a lot of the workforce ether funnelled into jobs they shouldn’t be doing as the alternative is seen as failure.

Years ago boys and girls who might not have been academic were able to walk into trade, beautician, childcare, nursing or secretarial type courses or day release jobs

Friend left school at 16 to go into nursing and worked her way up to being in charge of a ward. Nursing was the only thing she ever wanted to do.
She was made redundant along with others in her NHS hospital under a Labour government. She thinks because she didn’t have a degree in nursing along

Now so many careers need a degree or even GCSEs in English and Maths that it cuts out a lot of people who would have filled a lot of these posts.

My own Dh was able to qualify in 3 professions without having an English language or English Literature O level.

If he had left school now he would be stood packing stuff in an Amazon warehouse. Unable to access any further education apart from an English Language GCSE or Level 1 courses

Considering we have had these restrictions for quite a few years and whilst before 2016 we had a steady supply of people from other European countries coming in to do these type of jobs. The school leavers with little to no qualifications who would have stepped into these jobs were left looking on

It was only going to go one way when Cameron announced the referendum.

Don’t get me started on the NHS. It spends so much time trying to save money and hoping people will just go away and die it ends up spending massively more money if it had just treated the patient properly in the first place.

I needed an MRI that would have cost £300 Instead over the next 7 years they spent probably £1/2 million on my “treatment” whilst they guessed at what might be wrong. It almost cost me my life.
I ended up going private in the end and was over it within a few months

Is there a demostrated link between the two though? That one causes the other?

Money can improve services when there is a clear plan and outcome for the money required. Just handing over money without proper costed reasons for that money just ends up in that money being wasted.

One of the most infuriating things I find (in some cases and especially in the sector I work in) is that if you don't spend your full budget, then you are deemed not to need that money next year. In order not to lose funding, departments are required to fund stuff that they don't really need. Say say you have 4.5m in your budget and you only spend 4.2 - next year you will only get 4.2. Departments don't like losing money so they spend to the hilt to justify getting the same amount next year. I think it leads to dishonesty.

Firstly, it is so refreshing to read a non aggressive political thread!

Secondly to address (imo) the pay for public service workers, more funding generally, we all want this,
BUT it all has to be paid for, and come from successful business, Labour in my (long ) lifetime is not pro business and there is the huge problem, yes the Tories are also wasteful and often verging on corrupt BUT they recognise that a flourishing economy brings in the funding for EVERYTHING.
But then there is waste and handouts.

We need business leaders who have a proven history in large international business success, and with a decent moral code, to lead us....rather than power hungry self serving politicians who couldn't run a corner shop profitably, let alone have the foresight to navigate international money markets, with integrity and with the best outcome for the country.

All else follows from this....money has to be made through business, then NOT WASTED, again people who have relevant experience and full accontability only should have these positions.
People also vote on popularity and bias rather than on solid achievements.
Tony Blair seemed charming to many, and was very popular, but has no moral code and deceived the country into a war with epic devastating consequences.
He had no relevant experience, why did voters think he had the skills to run the country?
Also Class war has an influence, lots of people hate those who seem priviledged, but would you rather a comprehensive school drop out was in charge, or someone with the very best educational background,
(see the hate towards Sunak because he is wealthy...although he made his wealth)
It should not matter, the character of the person is the most important thing yet somehow our political system is not fit for purpose any more.
Personally l would like to see the James Dysons of our country in politics....

Perhaps but imagine the NHS now but minus all the hospitals built under PFI ?

Yes, contracts badly drawn up but the money to build Hospitals had to found either through (borrowing) adding to the national debt, more taxes or PFI ... which incidentally was first used by Maggie Thatcher.

I thought most of the contracts had been re drawn to give better VFM ?

Two reasons for me (although I'm furious about the tax burden being placed on us by the Conservatives at the moment and will struggle to vote for them again).

1. Two DC at private school and we cannot afford a 20% increase in fees if Labour insist on VAT on school fees.
2. The potential of a wealth tax. We are asset rich in terms of a 4 bed, semi in London and our pensions, but we'd be bankrupt if we had to pay out a load of cash in the form of a wealth tax. We simply don't have the sort of cash sitting about in the bank to cover a huge, one off tax bill.

If I could be reassured about those two specific things, I could be swayed.

Absolutely agree- it’s ridiculous and so frustrating that funding is on a yearly basis. We need to think of things longer term more.

Conservative voter here
Do i fully agree with what they stand for/their policies/their past actions? No, but i will continue to vote for them whilst they are the best option and currently we do not have (in my opinion) a good alternative.
I fall into the 'middle' and genuinely believe labour is no longer representing the working class but instead represent the 'not working' class. I live in the NE in traditional labour areas.
Labours attitude of 'lets just throw money at all the problems' is the worst thing we can do long term

I can often be attracted to right wing ideas and would consider voting for centre or centre right parties in some countries. But there’s one simple reason I would never vote for the British Conservative Party - which is that they have a terrible habit of targeting and scapegoating some of the most the most vulnerable people in society (For example - disabled people, people on benefits, immigrants) whenever they believe it may bring them some respite/electoral advantage. Totally unacceptable to me and does not fit on my moral compass.

DH and I said the same regarding the NHS the other day.

Between two of us and half an hour we came up with a better system, that still sees the poorest in society getting free healthcare.

But any government that suggests dismantling that sacred cow will never see power again.

Unfortunately.