If you tend to vote conservative can I ask a few questions - let’s keep it light and respectful!

[Holidayhavanas]

Full disclosure I tend to vote Labour, but I’m really interested to know if you tend to vote for the tories, what is your reasoning behind. the real shortage of qualified public sector workers for example teachers, social workers, police. A health service and education system on it’s knees. Police forces like Manchester and Met in special forces. I think that it’s symptomatic of years of underfunding. I work in the public sector and feel on a daily basis that the country is absolutely screwed. I assume most tory supporters would say it’s down to austerity but I feel it’s ideological cutting back on public funding. I’mgenuinely open to hear other views as I find it so depressing and just hope that it’s something I am missing. Let’s try and keep this respectful 😊

I have voted Conservative all my life. I believe in a smaller state and individuals left to spend more of their own money they have worked for how they please. I lived through the power cuts in the 70's where Labour would not face up to Trade Unions who dragged the country to its knees. I saw Brown put about half the people in UK onto benefits and make them dependent on them. I saw Blaire lie about Iraque and take us to war killing so many civilians including children. When I look at Kier Starlmer and Angela Raynor I despair of them running the country. At the moment the Labour transport minister is on the picket line with strikers who are bringing chaos to our country. Whilst I see things like this I would never trust Labour with economy. None of my adult children do either.

By "they" I mean Labour 🙄

@noblegiraffe Although the gender stuff has been happening whilst the Conservatives have been in power, it hasn't been orchestrated by them.

Stonewall, trading on it's name and history has to all intents and purposes been infiltrating organisations by the top downwards with its Diversity training and awards. It has been spreading 'stonewall law' for example saying that gender is a protected characteristic and that single sex toilet are discriminatory. The #nodebate and desire of people to not be seen as 'phobic' kept the issues away from public view for a long time.

The Conservatives seem to currently be the only party who can even define women correctly, and who re, somewhat belatedly perhaps, standing up for sex based rights. They're not doing great but once again they are doing far better than Labour, Lib Dems or SNP who still seem to be very TWAW.

Now you might think they are only doing this now for votes, but when other parties make it clear they don't want GC people in their party, what are we meant to think?

I am so glad my DDs are now out of secondary school rather than entering it now. The social contagion backed sadly by some (many?) schools willing to socially transition pupils behind the backs of parents (why? who has advised them this is a good thing to do?) is a worrying situation.

I’m finding those posts really fascinating.
Esp those who refer to things that have happened in the 1970s or even in the 2000.

When I vote, I look at what that party has done for the country in the last years, not 20 years ago. So many things change (like brexit!) that I couldn’t base my evaluation of the party on things they did so long ago.

The Tories under Heath gave us the 3 day week and power cuts.

Labour with Blair had some of the lowest unemployment rates we've ever seen, plus got us the min wage, its under the Cons we have seen the rise of working people having to claim benefits.

Smaller state? how does that work when councils have rise council tx and close you local pool? You gonna build a new one with that £8 tax cut?

Strikes are a failure on both sides, why shouldn't a worker democratically vote to withdraw their labour? or should all the power reside with the employer?

Starmer, whilst lacking the charisma of a Boris, is morally and intellectually streets ahead of the current Tory cabinet.

After 12 years or 15 by the time of the next GE, we need a change, the Tories have had a very good run but everything they d said they would fix, has got worse.

I'm actually more of a tory myself or was, i ve voted Tory plenty of times but i'm more a one nation type and the Tories purged the party of those after the 2016 vote and as a PP said, they are more a UK version of the republican party, i was shocked so many Tories voted against abortion rights for NI women.

I think for example, a lot if people are mentioning a smaller state and lower taxes
But at the end of 12 years if tory government, we have the highest level of taxes since WW2 and the highest level of debt (which predates covid - it has steadily increased since the conservatives came in power).

That makes me think that whoever is the Conservative party right now just isn’t able to deliver both on taxes and debt/smaller state/more money for the individual. Regardless of how good they might have been 20 years ago.

@TeenDivided, Penny TWAW Mordaunt was a chief architect of Self ID. The Conservatives have been pretty instrumental to the whole trans shitshow. Including reporting GC women to the police.

Britain's first trans MP is a Tory!

Like all the other parties, some members know what a woman is and others don't. It clearly isn't a big issue for them given how close Mordaunt came to being our new PM.🤷‍♀️

I'm very much a floating voter but have lived through both Labour and Conservative governments and they're all pretty much the same.

I do remember visiting the UK in the 70's when Labour were in and had been for a while and the country was on its knees.

On balance, I'd rather have a Tory government

I’m not saying it’s not a worrying situation, Teen, what I’m saying is that if it wasn’t the Tories who are to blame for the current situation, despite being in power the whole time it has been going on, then it would not appear that the government is what makes the biggest difference.

Employers, for example, will be looking at the Forstater and Bailey rulings, which are nothing to do with the government. Is the expectation that a different government would overturn those rulings?

The gender ideology in schools stuff - the Conservatives have had plenty of time and notice to issue DfE guidance. They haven’t, and don’t appear to be making moves to. The Stonewall agenda, the private companies that have churned out PSHE content - that’s a direct result of lack of Conservative policy and guidance. Their incompetence and failure. Yet they are the only ones we can trust?

You could however argue that those who forget history are condemned to repeat it. And it wasn't that long ago that Labour elected JC as leader. Yes he is gone now, but he was a throwback to the 70s in lots of ways.

While there are many problems in implementation, at its core Conservative believes in responsibility, taking ownership, property rights and not being spoon-fed for nothing. Whereas Labour is at its core immoral. It believes Paul should be robbed to pay Peter, it's never your fault, and property is theft.

I work in the public sector, DH works in the private sector and has worked his arse off to get into a position where we are comfortable but not rolling in it. Labour would tax us so much it would undo years of hard work. We already as a household pay 50k tax & NI. We don’t resent it, it’s the right thing to do. But - we’ve sacrificed so much to get here. So much time and effort and stress, spending in course fees, changing jobs, juggling childcare. Missing weekends and evenings for years.I volunteer, give money to charity and our family are active members of our community. If people took responsibility for their communities a lot of problems could be minimised.

In my role I see so many people not looking after themselves and expecting the state to pick up the pieces. I really believe in looking after yourself. The people I work with would, if they had to, sort it out. But they instead stay on benefits, don’t send their kids to school, don’t pay their rent or council tax and then get free counselling, support workers, social workers for them and their kids. They are smart and resourceful when it comes to getting what they need from the state. Then you get people genuinely in need who get nothing. I’ll never understand the system and I work in it. Labour would only make it worse, as they encourage people to see the state as the an answer to all problems

I was a raging leftie until I started working in my role. Now I don’t understand why we reward the worst behaviour in people while punishing the people who work hard, pay tax and raise good kids. Also disabled people have to jump through hoops - madness. If you have MS or Huntingdons why are you having to keep having assessments. People aren’t getting better. It was labour who involved ATOS etc. Support people to work/volunteer if they want. But allow them decent care of they can’t.

Also, immigration. The labour policy of allowing mass immigration has changed the face of the country. For good and for bad. Brexit is the sad fruit of mass immigration and not allowing people a say in that. It erodes national cohesion. Adding one million people to the population every three years and making no plans for extra housing/hospitals/schools while making certain jobs ones people born here won’t do so they stay on benefits isn’t good for the country. DH is foreign born, I’m not against people moving around the world. But I think the people of a country should be allowed to discuss how it will impact the country without being called racist.

Labour would have had us in hard lockdowns with schools closed for far longer then needed. I’m so pleased they weren’t in power during covid. They would have made the, already colossal, lock down damage worse.

noble I'm not sure we can trust any of them on women's rights tbh. But between the Tories who are saying the right things and Labour who are still clearly saying 'TWAW, stuff single sex issues' then which would be the better bet on this issue ?

I liked the coalition and the introduction of PP. I thought the Tories could look after the economy with the added humanity of the LibDems. But the LibDems then got crucified in the next election for daring to have compromised in order to get influence...

I am interested in people saying that they resent or would resent paying higher taxes to prop up other people.
Unless you're seriously wealthy and could draw on your personal funds to cover any unforeseen issue needing money, up to any limit, at any time, without recourse to e.g. disastrously expensive credit, couldn't those other people be you or your loved ones too?

My father in law was admitted with a suspected blocked bowel (all the symptoms pointed at that). They did x-rays and scans and couldn't see a blockage so basically left him in the ward, feeding him and then waiting for him to throw up, which inevitably he did, for about 3 weeks, just watching him get weaker and weaker. Then he got a hospital acquired infection so had to spend a week on a drip, during which they stopped feeding him, so he just got weaker and weaker. Then they eventually decided to do an exploratory operation to see if there was a blockage, but he was too ill and weak to operate, so they feed him by a drip to build him up. After a couple of months, they finally operated, and yes, found and repaired the bowel blockage! But then he caught another infection, which finished him off as he was so weak. He was only in his 60s and had previously been in good health with no underlying health conditions. It was just weeks of supervised neglect with doctors just "observing" him that led to him becoming so weak

This is exactly what I meant about the NHS trying to save money by not doing the proper tests, examinations and what would be simple surgery and instead it costing them £100,000s more

You have to work out the cost of him being in that hospital bed for 3 months and all extra costs of drips, food, nursing care etc associated with him and then they did do the surgery eventually so they ended up paying for what he needed 3 months earlier.

Having been a visitor to hospitals with Dh who has spent many months at a time in hospital for the past few years I refuse to believe the NHS needs more money. It needs a good shake up and to be run properly with the patient put firmly as the first priority, listening to what they say about “all” their symptoms and sending them for “all” tests at the same time not fobbing them off so they have to book another and another appointment just to get tested for 1 symptom at a time.

The waste of time money and lives I have seen is breath taking.

Tories do believe in a social security net for those who fall on hard times and need it. Traditionally, conservatives would not be in favour of not working/contributing to society as a lifestyle choice. The 'ideal' would be a low tax, higher-wage society so that working people could all afford to live without state support.

Taking responsibility for oneself is all well and good, but the problem is that children are not born equal and do not all have a equal chance in life. Children from well off families are likely to get a better education and do better in life in general. Not to mention all the extras like help getting on the property ladder, inheritance etc etc. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule, but overall, this is then general pattern.

Unless every child is given a fair start in life then it is right and fair that the wealth should be redistributed. This is why I always vote Labour.

I don't think many people of any political persuasion are actively in favour of not working/contributing to society as a lifestyle choice, are they? (genuine question).
'A social security net for those who fall on hard times and need it' sounds very much to me like a Blair-style New Labour position.
Can you realistically have a low-tax, higher-wage society? In e.g. the Nordic countries where quality of life/public services etc is famously high, they have high taxes, but I believe the wage gap between the lowest- and highest-waged is much less great than in the UK.

@DameHelena well, it was a Labour government who placed huge swathes of people on some kind of state support which they remain reliant on. That wasn't an effective 'levelling up' measure - it just didn't work. I recognise that poverty is multi-faceted and very complex but there are some people for whom work is -generationally - an alien concept. How do we address that?

In my original comment, I did say that I see the benefits of a high tax society if everything worked properly. So I can see the arguments for both options, the trouble is we fall in the middle in a very uneasy place. It would take huge societal change to move towards either an American individualist model or a Nordic social utopia. The question is how do we - fairly - make society better for everyone.

I find the Labour position patronising towards the poorer in society and also childish is the characterisation of anyone wealthy as being evil.

My issue with most Labour governments is that whilst I have been poor and I have been well off and thanks to f**king lockdowns I am back to poor again and registered disabled

I hate the way they seem to infantalize those in society who are the poor, the disabled etc. It annoys me when they seem to think that if you in that “lowly” category you need looking after as you will never change your life as you are poor so don’t have the where with all to do anything

I would like a helping hand to get out of being poor but not be spoken about as someone who needs to be so incapable I will need looking after for the rest of my life.

I think that is why Blair did well initially as he came across as treating those that were in the lower sections of society as people who wanted to climb up the ladder and make a better life for themselves and he wanted to give them the tools to do so.But also helping those that would find it more difficult.

He didn’t seem to mind that you became wealthy where as subsequent Labour leaders seemed to make a distinct difference between those with money and those without and if you were without then you would never get to have anything ever and you need to remain without so Labour can look after you.

I think one way in which we address that issue is education. And I don't mean Michael Gove's beloved model of focusing on having kids read pre-20th-century 'classic' literature and hammering in dates in history and strict grammar. I mean enabling and encouraging children to find what they're good at, which flows into allowing and enabling them to be engaged and responsible citizens.

For the record, I don't think the Nordic countries are a 'social utopia'; I do though think they seem to do better in things like childcare, wages and healthcare than the UK.

I have to say I struggle to find a 'characterisation of anyone wealthy as being evil' in general life or in Labour discourse. And it's interesting that this narrative exists alongside the 'champagne socialist' one that, if anyone is a bit left-wing but also doesn't live in a hovel, they're a hypocrite; do left-wingers also become 'evil' if they're comfortably off?

I do think the only way out of this World mess. It isn’t just a U.K. or Brexit or Russia problems
Countries across the world are coming out of this pandemic and Russia invading Ukraine has put another level of shit on the situation and I think those countries who reduce taxation and give people mmore money in their pockets to spend how they want and also attract those richer people from countries with higher taxation will be the ones to get their country moving upwards again.
I fear Sunak as the last thing I want is for this mess to continue any longer than it had to but I don’t see Truss as a strong enough candidate. I can in some way understand the Tory membership wanting Boris back.

@Whyohwhyissheso - Genuine question: if you think it's bad that disabled people have to jump through hoops, why vote for the party who in the last twelve years have only increased the number of hoops through which to jump?

@Holidayhavanas I don't know how you have done it, but nearly 100 posts in and this discussion has stayed respectful!

I voted for Blair but Corbyn swung me off Labour, as he / they managed to do for many who did the same

remain voter too but many of below resonates with me

Blair did grab at opportunity in a way Labour can’t seem to do, also the narrative that U.K. is always the worst seems more prevalent with left today than back then

Unions stalling society under Labour due to connections, propensity for longer lockdown should that come about, driving high tax payers away, and increasing state schooling by making private more unaffordable for some also concern me

I do listen to Reeves and I’m very unconvinced by her stance on most things

Also gender issues are a big issue

I’m not un-winnable when it comes to getting my vote back, and I was pleased about Starmer initially as more to centre but he’s failing to win it back